[Emmett Brown]

Daggerkobe thinks that USC would beat the Raiders and Nicky thinks that UNC would beat the Sacramento Kings. These are the people you guys are arguing with. They are lost causes. Truly not worth your time.

[daggerkobe]

Monkeymolestor gambles for comps. The only ones I know that do that are losers that always lose and want something to show for it like 2-for-1 buffet coupons.

Keep picking up underaged teens at the Greyhound station and exploiting them in your amateur movies.

[Slim]

THE BLACK MAMBA

[KingRevolver]

Did Pippen do ANYTHING by himself when he went to the Blazers?

Pippen was old by then...and they actually would've gone to the Finals if the Lakers hadn't come back from like a 16 point deficit late in the 4th quarter.

Either way -- Jordan is the greatest. Kobe is definitely a top 10 player but he's certainly not the best.

[hoopster42]

Right. 6 rings that werent possible without future Hall of Famers Pippen, Rodman, Paxson, Kerr, Grant and others. The Jokedon without a Hall of Famer by his side couldnt even win more than 1 playoff game without Pippen in 5 seasons. Even though he had "Iceman" George Gervin, Paxson, Oakley, Rip Hamilton and Jerry Stackhouse. Not to mention the Bulls made the playoffs with a laughable 35 win and 39 win seasons.

Without Pippen, Jokedon won a mere 43% of his games and couldnt lead the Bulls past the first round. Pippen without Jokedon made it to the conference finals!

If Snaq O'Meal were such a dominant player why couldnt he lead the Lakers to the title or even to the finals regardless of Kobe's development? Because just like every other championship teams they need more than one superstars.

Except Kobe is just 3 more wins away from proving that another HoF isnt necessary to win it all.

let me dissect this one myth at a time:

paxson, kerr, grant, in the hall of fame? no fukken way

iceman was over the hill. let's not even talk about the seasons on the wizards when jordan was 40 yrs old, kobe in 9 yrs when he's 40 wont be in the league and if he is, he will be horrible, jordan was at least a 20 pt a gm scorer still

when the bulls drafted jordan in '84, here were their records the previous 3 seasons:

1983-84 27 55 .329
1982-83 28 54 .341
1981-82 34 48 .415

compare that to the lakers who drafted kobe in '96 but were
a perennial playoff team already, as were the houston rockets
and portland trailblazers who picked up pippen as a final
piece of the puzzle, not as a beginning piece

jordan inherited a shitty situation in chicago because remember
he was the #3 pick, which is where shitty teams pick, kobe was
the #13 pick, barely in the lottery, then lucked out that jerry west
traded for him, even pippen was drafted number 5

pao gasol and possibly even lamar odom might end up in the
hall of fame before its all said and done. lets see what
happens with bynum who at age 22 has his whole career in
front of him. when healthy, pao, bynum + odom make up by
far the best frontline in the west and probably in the
entire league, and thats a fact man

[daggerkobe]

Thats right. Pippen was a quarter away from reaching the finals with the Blazers. While Jokedon was missing the playoffs with the Wizards, even tho he had future HoFer Rip Hamilton and Jerry Stackhouse (NBA scoring champ) playing alongside him.

Pippen also led the Bulls past the 1st rd without Jokedon...... something Jokedon himself could never do without Pippen.

[KingRevolver]

compare that to the lakers who drafted kobe in '96 but were
a perennial playoff team already, as were the houston rockets
and portland trailblazers who picked up pippen as a final
piece of the puzzle, not as a beginning piece

Actually the Hornets drafted Kobe Bryant, and traded him to the Lakers for Vlade Divac (if I remember correctly)

[davidchong]

Jordan forever

[hoopster42]

Thats right. Pippen was a quarter away from reaching the finals with the Blazers. While Jokedon was missing the playoffs with the Wizards, even tho he had future HoFer Rip Hamilton and Jerry Stackhouse (NBA scoring champ) playing alongside him.

Pippen also led the Bulls past the 1st rd without Jokedon...... something Jokedon himself could never do without Pippen.

again, pippen went to the blazers in 99, a team that was already stacked, here was the record the 2 seasons prior to pippen, beginning with the season they had him, 99-00. in a strike shortened season of 98-99, before acquiring pippen, they still won 70% of their gms which equates to 57 wins in an 82 gm schedule:

1999-00 59 23 .720
1998-99 35 15 .700
1997-98 46 36 .561

the season, 93-94, when pippen led the bulls to the 1st rd playoff win, they were a FAR SUPERIOR team to any team that jordan had ever had without pippen on it. remember, they had all those guys in 93-94 when jordan retired who just a few minutes ago in an earlier post you said were a bunch of future HoFers.

sorry dude, but anyone reading this knows that i am killing you in this debate. absolutely killing you.

[MonkeyF0cker]

Monkeymolestor gambles for comps. The only ones I know that do that are losers that always lose and want something to show for it like 2-for-1 buffet coupons.

Keep picking up underaged teens at the Greyhound station and exploiting them in your amateur movies.

I gamble for comps now? Good to know. Thanks for the heads up, genius. I'd love to know what I was gambling for in the 6 years I gambled for a living before moving to Vegas though. Can you fill me in? Thanks, pal.

[hoopster42]

dagger, its obvious you hate jordan, but at the end of the day:

most ppl know and think jordan > kobe

jordan 6 rings > kobe's 3, soon to be, 4 rings

jordan is the greatest ever, and even chick hearn said it before he died, he saw all 3 of kobe's championships and that great man knew the truth

[KingRevolver]

again, pippen went to the blazers in 99, a team that was already stacked, here was the record the 2 seasons prior to pippen, beginning with the season they had him, 99-00. in a strike shortened season of 98-99, before acquiring pippen, they still won 70% of their gms which equates to 57 wins in an 82 gm schedule:

1999-00 59 23 .720
1998-99 35 15 .700
1997-98 46 36 .561

the season, 93-94, when pippen led the bulls to the 1st rd playoff win, they were a FAR SUPERIOR team to any team that jordan had ever had without pippen on it. remember, they had all those guys in 93-94 when jordan retired who just a few minutes ago in an earlier post you said were a bunch of future HoFers.

sorry dude, but anyone reading this knows that i am killing you in this debate. absolutely killing you.

You might be "killing" him in the debate because any moron knows that Jordan was a far superior player than Kobe will ever be.

You still said Kobe was drafted by the Lakers and that's simply not true. You're arguing with someone about facts, then you go and miss that simple fact. Come on now.

[hoopster42]

revolver, i missed one fact..........i meant to say "kobe joined the lakers in '96", i know the hornets drafted him at #13 then jerry west traded vlade for him, i made simple mistake in the rush of typing, please show somewhere else where i missed a fact in all of the stuff i just brought to the table.

based on what i've posted, would you say i know a little bit about the NBA and its history?

is my argument for jordan supported with facts?

[MonkeyF0cker]

dagger, its obvious you hate jordan, but at the end of the day:

most ppl know and think jordan > kobe

jordan 6 rings > kobe's 3, soon to be, 4 rings

jordan is the greatest ever, and even chick hearn said it before he died, he saw all 3 of kobe's championships and that great man knew the truth

Most people would know that a professional sports team in this day and age would beat a college team. Not daggerkobe. Don't expect miracles. Seriously. He'll never get it.

[hoopster42]

let me bring some levity to your convenient facts

jordan played without pippen for his first 3 seasons as pippen was not drafted until '87, kobe got to play with shaq from the GET-GO in the fall of '96, Shaq had already made the finals and was quickly becoming the dominant big man in the league because hakeem, patrick ewing, and david robinson were aging veterans, and still it was not until their 4th season together that they won a championship, MJ and pippen won in the 90-91 season which was also their 4th season together..............ask any NBA scout, GM, coach or former player, a guard would rather play with a dominant big-man than a great swingman, in other words, they would all pick the chance to play with shaq in his prime over pippen in his prime,

the facts:

smart, knowledgeable, people were not ready to anoint MJ the greatest until he had more rings than magic, kareem, bird, etc

guess what, HE HAS 6 RINGS WHICH IS MORE THAN THOSE GUYS

same thing now, smart, knowledgeable, people are NOT ready to anoint kobe better than MJ, let alone as good as MJ right now because

MJ = 6 rings

Kobe = 4 rings after this series

MJ did it with no dominant big man, w/a dominant big man like kobe had, MJ would have won 9 rings easily

the truth hurts when laker/kobe fans have to face it dead on

boom.......

[hoopster42]

let me dissect this one myth at a time:

paxson, kerr, grant, in the hall of fame? no fukken way

iceman was over the hill. let's not even talk about the seasons on the wizards when jordan was 40 yrs old, kobe in 9 yrs when he's 40 wont be in the league and if he is, he will be horrible, jordan was at least a 20 pt a gm scorer still

when the bulls drafted jordan in '84, here were their records the previous 3 seasons:

1983-84 27 55 .329
1982-83 28 54 .341
1981-82 34 48 .415

compare that to the lakers who drafted kobe in '96 but were
a perennial playoff team already, as were the houston rockets
and portland trailblazers who picked up pippen as a final
piece of the puzzle, not as a beginning piece

jordan inherited a shitty situation in chicago because remember
he was the #3 pick, which is where shitty teams pick, kobe was
the #13 pick, barely in the lottery, then lucked out that jerry west
traded for him, even pippen was drafted number 5

pao gasol and possibly even lamar odom might end up in the
hall of fame before its all said and done. lets see what
happens with bynum who at age 22 has his whole career in
front of him. when healthy, pao, bynum + odom make up by
far the best frontline in the west and probably in the
entire league, and thats a fact man

boom.................

[hoopster42]

again, pippen went to the blazers in 99, a team that was already stacked, here was the record the 2 seasons prior to pippen, beginning with the season they had him, 99-00. in a strike shortened season of 98-99, before acquiring pippen, they still won 70% of their gms which equates to 57 wins in an 82 gm schedule:

1999-00 59 23 .720
1998-99 35 15 .700
1997-98 46 36 .561

the season, 93-94, when pippen led the bulls to the 1st rd playoff win, they were a FAR SUPERIOR team to any team that jordan had ever had without pippen on it. remember, they had all those guys in 93-94 when jordan retired who just a few minutes ago in an earlier post you said were a bunch of future HoFers.

sorry dude, but anyone reading this knows that i am killing you in this debate. absolutely killing you.

and boom.....................



i methodically and systematically blew his arguments, piece by piece, out of the water


ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED!!!?!?!?!??!!

[daggerkobe]

Odum a Hall of Famer? his best season was 17.2PPG!!!!! Sure he has tons of talent.. not many 6-10 guys with handles of a PG, jumpshot of a SG, quickness and low post game of a SF and the body of a PF.. but the guy is the laziest and the dumbest mofo in the NBA!

Gasol is also not a HoFer. Centers need to score more than 18PPG and the fact he was 0-12 in the playoffs prior to joining the Lakers wont help either. Not to mention the guy is softer than jello.

The fact that Kobe was leading the Lakers to a near upset of the #1 seed Suns few seasons ago with Smush Parker playing next to him shows how much better he was than Jokedon. Hit back to back to back clutch jumpers in game 6 to pretty much pull off the upset only for Odum to not box out, get outrebounded by a shorter man and failing to foul Nash did them in.

And the fact that he has a 60%+ win percentage without a HoF sidekick just shows how much better he is than Jokedon who couldnt win more than 1 career playoff game without Pippen.

[KingRevolver]

Odum a Hall of Famer? his best season was 17.2PPG!!!!! Sure he has tons of talent.. not many 6-10 guys with handles of a PG, jumpshot of a SG, quickness and low post game of a SF and the body of a PF.. but the guy is the laziest and the dumbest mofo in the NBA!

Gasol is also not a HoFer. Centers need to score more than 18PPG and the fact he was 0-12 in the playoffs prior to joining the Lakers wont help either. Not to mention the guy is softer than jello.

The fact that Kobe was leading the Lakers to a near upset of the #1 seed Suns few seasons ago with Smush Parker playing next to him shows how much better he was than Jokedon. Hit back to back to back clutch jumpers in game 6 to pretty much pull off the upset only for Odum to not box out, get outrebounded by a shorter man and failing to foul Nash did them in.

And the fact that he has a 60%+ win percentage without a HoF sidekick just shows how much better he is than Jokedon who couldnt win more than 1 career playoff game without Pippen.

LOL Yeah, there's no way Odom winds up in the hall of fame. Gasol is very borderline. If he won a couple of titles with Kobe then he'd probably get in. And you are correct, Gasol is a very soft player.

I like your arguments better than this hoopster guy. I disagree that you think Kobe is better than Jordan but you seem to have more knowledge of the game, which surprises me that you would think Kobe is the superior player, anyway... Good stuff, keep it coming.

[daggerkobe]

Are you telling me Jokedon with Paxson, Oakley, Wooldrige, Iceman George Gervin was a much worse team than Pippen with Armstrong, Grant, Perdue and Cartwright?

Unlike the former, Pippen led the Bulls past 1st rd of the playoffs.

[frostno98]

I don't think DG was old enough to watched many of Jordans game when he was still around. That would explain why he would go to great lengths to defend Kobe, the 1st greatest player he ever got to watch playing on a weekly basis.

Whatever the case is, it's pointless continuing to argue with a brickwall. Good job Nicky, for creating yet another debatable thread that's really not debatable.

[hoopster42]

Odum a Hall of Famer? his best season was 17.2PPG!!!!! Sure he has tons of talent.. not many 6-10 guys with handles of a PG, jumpshot of a SG, quickness and low post game of a SF and the body of a PF.. but the guy is the laziest and the dumbest mofo in the NBA!

Gasol is also not a HoFer. Centers need to score more than 18PPG and the fact he was 0-12 in the playoffs prior to joining the Lakers wont help either. Not to mention the guy is softer than jello.

The fact that Kobe was leading the Lakers to a near upset of the #1 seed Suns few seasons ago with Smush Parker playing next to him shows how much better he was than Jokedon. Hit back to back to back clutch jumpers in game 6 to pretty much pull off the upset only for Odum to not box out, get outrebounded by a shorter man and failing to foul Nash did them in.

And the fact that he has a 60%+ win percentage without a HoF sidekick just shows how much better he is than Jokedon who couldnt win more than 1 career playoff game without Pippen.

yeah, those same suns that were stacked and never reached an nba finals. btw, that suns team was the #2 seed, not the #1 seed, and played that yr without antoine stoudemire, even the clippers went further than the lakers that yr in a way down west and took the suns to 7 gms, the west was so down that the mavs actually made the finals!

that 06 laker team is only one of 8 in 182 who has ever given up a 3-1 lead to lose the series!!!!!!!!

nice going w/that argument

[KingRevolver]

yeah, those same suns that were stacked and never reached an nba finals. btw, that suns team was the #2 seed, not the #1 seed, and played that yr without antoine stoudemire, even the clippers went further than the lakers that yr in a way down west and took the suns to 7 gms, the west was so down that the mavs actually made the finals!

that 06 laker team is only one of 8 in 182 who has ever given up a 3-1 lead to lose the series!!!!!!!!

nice going w/that argument

Dude, his name is AMARE Stoudemire -- NOT "Antoine"

[hoopster42]

you know who i'm talkin about, i'm typing fast because i'm working on other shit, but the question is, did you like my argument or not?

theres been so many fukken stoudemire's i forget the first name, but he's the 6'10" one with mad game

[daggerkobe]

Suns that season won the division rather easily without Amare. The Clippers finished second as they had a pretty good team with Brand, Maggette, Mobley and Cassell.

They dispatched Carmello & the Nuggets rather easily. So it wasnt a surprise that they took the Suns to the limit. What was a surprise was that the Lakers made the playoffs with the likes of Kwame Brown and Smush Parker in starting lineup and was 3 seconds from advancing. Jokedon never could carry Kwame to the playoffs.

Again, had that pothead Odum either boxed out or fouled Nash. Kobe averaged 35PPG that season and was robbed of the MVP. Shouldve been his 2nd without Shaq. Jokedon never won an MVP or advanced past 1st rd without Pippen.

[hoopster42]

Suns that season won the division rather easily without Amare. The Clippers finished second as they had a pretty good team with Brand, Maggette, Mobley and Cassell.

They dispatched Carmello & the Nuggets rather easily. So it wasnt a surprise that they took the Suns to the limit. What was a surprise was that the Lakers made the playoffs with the likes of Kwame Brown and Smush Parker in starting lineup and was 3 seconds from advancing. Jokedon never could carry Kwame to the playoffs.

Again, had that pothead Odum either boxed out or fouled Nash. Kobe averaged 35PPG that season and was robbed of the MVP. Shouldve been his 2nd without Shaq. Jokedon never won an MVP or advanced past 1st rd without Pippen.

and if the portland trail gangsters take care of the ball in the 2000 west conf finals g7 with a huge lead in the 4th quarter in staples then the lakers dont win the west and dont get the ring...........and if vlade grabs the ball in the 2002 west conf finals g4 instead of saving it and throwing it directly to robert horry, the kings have a commanding 3-1 lead in the series going back to sacramento and that series is OVER

the lakers were very fortunate to get to the finals in 2000 and 2002

[KingRevolver]

Ahh, all this Suns talk is makin' me miss my ol' run-n-gun Suns. They were sure fun to watch those 3-4 years. Too bad it's over...oh well.

Anyway, the bottom line is that Jordan was and always will be a superior player than Kobe. Also, in my opinion the playing field was far better back in Jordan's day than it is now. Plus, they would let the players play more than they do now. Kobe can't take the ball into the hole without someone breathing on him and a foul being called! I hate the NBA and what it's become...

[raiders72002]

Season Age Tm Lg G GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS

















































1986-87 23 CHI NBA 82 82 40.0 13.4 27.8 .482 0.1 0.8 .182 10.2 11.9 .857 2.0 3.2 5.2 4.6 2.9 1.5 3.3 2.9 37.1 1987-88 24 CHI NBA 82 82 40.4 13.0 24.4 .535 0.1 0.6 .132 8.8 10.5 .841 1.7 3.8 5.5 5.9 3.2 1.6 3.1 3.3 35.0

N

[raiders72002]

I'm awful copy/paste but Jordan avg 37 pts a game at 23 and 35 at 24 with NO help. Over 53% FG.

No Pippen and an awful team when Jordan was 23. Pippen a rookie when Jordan was 24 and came off the bench and did nothing. Another awful team surrounding Jordan. They aren't close.

[hoopster42]

Suns that season won the division rather easily without Amare. The Clippers finished second as they had a pretty good team with Brand, Maggette, Mobley and Cassell.

yes but the clips were the 6-seed in the western conf, the suns were just not that great a team that yr, but they were great enough to come back from 3-1 down for only the 8th time vs 182 to not do it in NBA history

[hoopster42]

Anyway, the bottom line is that Jordan was and always will be a superior player than Kobe. Also, in my opinion the playing field was far better back in Jordan's day than it is now. Plus, they would let the players play more than they do now. Kobe can't take the ball into the hole without someone breathing on him and a foul being called! I hate the NBA and what it's become...

great points

1) the nba had fewer teams in jordan's time and more GREAT teams because of it. the nba is way more watered down now

2) the nba was much, much, much more physical in jordan's time. the nba and stern will not allow a bad boys pistons type team these days. even the celtics, hawks, and cavs, were physical teams back then.

3) hand-checking. back in jordan's days they allowed it but he overcame it. now they do not allow hand-checking so playing a great player one on one was much easier back then than now, where the offensive player has a much bigger advantage.

[daggerkobe]

Huh? What does Odum committing two boneheaded mistakes in the span of about 10 seconds which cost the Lakers the upset have to do with Vlade and Portland?

Phil even told him to foul in the timeout previously and the dummy forgot.

[KingRevolver]

great points

1) the nba had fewer teams in jordan's time and more GREAT teams because of it. the nba is way more watered down now

2) the nba was much, much, much more physical in jordan's time. the nba and stern will not allow a bad boys pistons type team these days. even the celtics, hawks, and cavs, were physical teams back then.

3) hand-checking. back in jordan's days they allowed it but he overcame it. now they do not allow hand-checking so playing a great player one on one was much easier back then than now, where the offensive player has a much bigger advantage.

All good points.

[daggerkobe]

80s were pretty much watered down also. Other than the Lakers & Celtics who were great? Which explains why they combined for 8 championships in the 80s.

And if you thought the East was bad now...... the Bulls made the playoffs with a 30-52 record one season! Couldnt do that today.

Kobe averaged 35PPG against western foes which were tougher and had to have a winning record to make the playoffs unlike Jokedon of the 80s when 30 wins were enough to make the playoffs.

[BCaldwell32]

the kid never misses a shot.. even when you think there's no way his shot will go in when he's off balanced and falling, swishhhhhhhhhhhhhh..

the kid is unreal..

He is unstoppable

best player that ever lived.
.

Michael Jordan.......... 2nd best player that ever lived.

Kobe never misses a shot??? Michael Jordan as a Chicago Bull (I don't count washington) shot just under 51% From the field and 84% from foul line. Kobe shoots 45.5 % from field and 84% from foul line. How can you shoot your mouth off that he never misses and not even look at the stats? Michael Jordan is the best player ever and he is the one who was unstoppable.