[jjgold]

I rarely play anymore as I got bored of it

If your decent it seems ROI is about 3%

[Illusion]

I play home games every weekend and play on the boats every now and then.

[jay88]

I play at least twice a week at home and a some hours a week online.

[darkghost]

I rarely play anymore as I got bored of it

If your decent it seems ROI is about 3%

How is this 3% calculated?

Poker players generally describe their earnings based on big bets per hour (BB/Hr) in a limit game. So if you were a good player, you could make one BB/Hr, so playing let's say $20/40 limit hold'em, a good player could pull $40 an hour. This was all before the online poker craze. With so many variables going on w/ online play its hard to determine what a good rate is for a winning player.

I play lots of sites and multi-table alot so my results have been better than playing in a casino.

[Senator7]

Yeah, but just hold'em and not nearly as much as I used to. I first started playing after seeing Rounders when it first came out on video. It got so popular so fast that I just got sick of it. That's all you see and hear about now days and I was playing it long before the Travel Channel knew what hold'em was!

Senator 7

[SBR_John]

I stopped too. I like tourney play but no time for that. Plus, the reward verusus time spent is not attractive. Players are just playing their cards and there is not much real poker being played.

[scottric]

I play a lot now. During school, we had a weekly game going (pending all wives' consent, of course). I started playing online a good year and half ago (for funny money though) to keep myself awake during law classes. I've begun taking in seriously and have had a lot of success at house games and even at the local casino where I play low level blinds. Unfortunately, I'm at the point right now where playing for funny money online is just not doing it for me since practically everyone stays around until the river and going out for real isn't good until I get steady work.

I find it quite peaceful and have relied on a lot of better players for advice and have started reading recommended books. Once you build a system and follow those rules, results will follow. As with sports betting, it is all about discipline and sound strategy.

I have considered playing online for small amounts but have reservations. Can anyone help me with their thoughts? I am mostly concerned about integrity: the use of bots, team play, etc. It is a lot harder to catch cheats online then when sitting at a table.

[darkghost]

I play a lot now. During school, we had a weekly game going (pending all wives' consent, of course). I started playing online a good year and half ago (for funny money though) to keep myself awake during law classes. I've begun taking in seriously and have had a lot of success at house games and even at the local casino where I play low level blinds. Unfortunately, I'm at the point right now where playing for funny money online is just not doing it for me since practically everyone stays around until the river and going out for real isn't good until I get steady work.

I find it quite peaceful and have relied on a lot of better players for advice and have started reading recommended books. Once you build a system and follow those rules, results will follow. As with sports betting, it is all about discipline and sound strategy.

I have considered playing online for small amounts but have reservations. Can anyone help me with their thoughts? I am mostly concerned about integrity: the use of bots, team play, etc. It is a lot harder to catch cheats online then when sitting at a table.

Yeah... I understand your reservation about playing online. Alot of people bring up the topic of cheating and why they choose to play in a brick and mortar casino instead. However, from my experience and everyone else who I've talked to who've played many hours online, the cheating is minimal (especially at the lower limits). As for bots, the major sites w/ lots of players have no need for them. I have accounts at all the major sites (party, ultimate bet, full tilt, interpoker, poker stars, paradise) and alot of smaller sites as well. If you're still interested send me a message and I'll tell you more.

[LGBoots]

Got bored very quickly with it. Most of the time your sitting around doing nothing after folding crap cards. Then you have punters taking an age to decide how to play their cards

I prefer playing Video Poker, you really get a 'hit' playing that game especially when the Royal drops (I've had 3 of them )

[mad]

Agree darkghost, with the amount of money some of the bigger online rooms are raking, you can be sure they do everything in their power to eliminate cheating and protect their integrity. Not an issue as far as i am concerned and i play a bit (online). If you suspect something leave the table and report the handle (username) of the person you suspect (just be sure you are not a sore loser is all). All hands are recorded so they can scrutinize things later for this exact purpose.

[newb411breaker19]

darkghost, the jury's still out on cheating in online poker, but it obviously does go on. I even saw one site where a person claimed they could show you how to see a persons hole cards from their own computer. but at the lower limits it seems like it wouldn't be as common.
another issue is that of pocket pairs and high cards. for instance, i have noticed on some sites like party poker pocket pairs seem to be abundant, but i don't have any stats to back it up so who knows. pocket pairs and high cards would be advantageous to the poker room because more people might see the flop and their rake would be higher. just some thoughts, but i did play a little but not anymore cuz i got bored with it

[jjgold]

The consensus seems to me that players are getting bored of poker. I think if you play all day and your decent the ROI ( profit for day divided by hrs is very low and your better off getting a real job.

Their are so many smart techies now that cheating is running rampant in poker games. I basically stay away now.

[darkghost]

darkghost, the jury's still out on cheating in online poker, but it obviously does go on. I even saw one site where a person claimed they could show you how to see a persons hole cards from their own computer. but at the lower limits it seems like it wouldn't be as common.
another issue is that of pocket pairs and high cards. for instance, i have noticed on some sites like party poker pocket pairs seem to be abundant, but i don't have any stats to back it up so who knows. pocket pairs and high cards would be advantageous to the poker room because more people might see the flop and their rake would be higher. just some thoughts, but i did play a little but not anymore cuz i got bored with it

Yeah I've seen the sites as well. Those sites are intended to just suck you out of $19.95 or $49.95 or whatever it is they charge to get you to buy into their so-called spying software. If they really had a spying program, why advertise it? Why not just sit down and play... this is just like the touts that advertise 'guaranteed winners & locks'.. just a bunch of scam artists.

[LGBoots]

Anyone else think the Internet Poker room boom will end in punters tears when all the 'Newbies' discover they ain't going to make loads at this game & quit playing ?

One sign of an overheating market is the fact that mainstream
Newspapers in the UK are running articles like 'Housewife makes £300 a day playing Internet Poker'

It all boils down to the same rules of Sportsbetting around 5% of punters will win the other 95% will be losers long term

[jjgold]

Online Poker wil drop significantly in the coming years

[Trouble Maker]

Online Poker wil drop significantly in the coming years

Someone search him for drugs

[LVHerbie]

Online Poker wil drop significantly in the coming years

way off and would love to see you justify your position/feeling... I started playing online three years ago at a site that is one of the bigger portals today... the max game was 5/10 limit (there was no limit games there outside of tourneys) and this was always empty... it was rare to see anything higher then 1/2... now you can get online and regularly see 100/200 limit games and $5000+ no limit buyin games... point 2 - 800+ - players in WSOP main in 2003, 2000+ in 2004, 5500+ in 2005... point 3 - early last year the only place you could play no limit poker was bellegio, palms, mirage, binion's and the golden nugget... now you can walk into almost in casino on the strip and they have a poker room and stake no limit... I play at the MGM regularly in the 2/5 No limit game and 8 of 10 players are tourist / beginners... 2 years ago you would have been 2 tourist and 8 regs istaking turns picking them off... obviously, as with the stock market, this kind of exponential growth cannot continue indefiently, but will poker return to a dying game, like it was consider five-ten years ago? I seriously doubt it...

[jjgold]

Many Poker sites already reporting drop ofs

Once it gets booted from TV poker is done

Why is poker so big?? Does anyone know what tv is??

[LVHerbie]

Rreally? I didn't realize that been a big drop off in television broadcasts of poker recently... just went to cardplayer.com and saw that six networks (espn, travel, FSN, bravo, NBC, and gsn) have poker of some sort being broadcast in the next FOUR DAYS... before 2003 if you wanted to watch poker on tv you had to catch the two hour broadcast of the final table of WSOP on ESPN at 2 in the middle of night that was broadcast a handfull of times throughout the year (which the Binion's paid to get tape every year out of their own pocket)...

[LVHerbie]

Also, what is your source on "Poker sites already reporting drop ofs"? I know I sure haven't seen it... seems like all the major tourneys online are increasing their gur. payouts monthly... I've never heard of one decreasing the payout of a tourney... several startup sites have also became big players in the last year or so... bodog, fulltilt, and doylesroom all come to mind... can you site, specifically, where the drop off has occured?

I agree that this exponential growth can't continue for ever... but I don't see poker fading away anytime soon...

5500+ entries in the WSOP main this year... I like the over next year... I'll take up to a dime's action, at 2-1, if you like the under...

anyhow I'm done with this thread unless you can come up with some points that are verifiable instead of vague generalities...

[jjgold]

Herbie I said one it gets booted from TV Poker is done

The growth came from tv

[clonecat]

It pisses me off that poker is always on ESPN. I know a lot of people are playing poker, but how can you watch poker all of the time? Keep it to sports.

[jjgold]

Clony that is why online sites are doing so well. Poker will eventually not be on tv and then you see drops at poker sites.

[darkghost]

It seems like you're stating a fact that poker will not be shown on tv. Is there something you know or are u just stating ur opinion?

[Razz]

As an avid poker player (I played 20-30 hours a week before football season started), I agree with some of the detractors. While poker has not reached its peak yet, it will eventually decline. It is not exactly a fad, in that its never going to completely die out, but the gullible average guy is going to give up on it sooner rather than later. I just can't see it continue to grow and be as popular as sports. Speaking of which, nothing annoys me more than people calling poker a sport.

[jjgold]

TV is showing it too much and it will backfire

Overkill will turn people off and then turn them off to poker online

[johnny00]

I got into poker because I thought I could win some extra money. I did and still am. Can I make a living off it? maybe if i play many different sites everyday but I play a few times a week online. Thing to remember is that playing online is so different in the fact there are many strong hands that you can go up against, you just have to be careful and remember you are playing online. I won't quit my day job yet. Poker is for the extra things I like to buy, trips, vacations, etc. I've played on a lot of sites so know a lot about each. Be careful of the big poker rooms, they have the greatest tendency for bad beats.

[jjgold]

Welcome aboard Johhny and a great post

[Sean]

I have to agree with JJ on the importance of television’s role in the growth of online poker. I think that most will agree that the correlation exists. However, there are a number of indicators suggesting that the boom is coming to an end.

Earlier this month, a mere 3 months after its flotation, PartyGaming (Party Poker, StarluckCasino, et al) saw shares fall as much as 30% on news that growth rates were not meeting expectations. In an attempt to appease analysts, Party issued a statement laying blame for the shortfall on the delay in televised coverage of the WSOP.

Other indications that the bubble may be near:

• PartyGaming admits that newbies have been spending less money and losing interest quicker than the original players who assisted in the massive early growth of online poker.

• According to analysts, the market growth in Internet poker has been revised down to just 4%, which is a far cry from high growth rates that were promised earlier.

Does this mean that online poker is going to disappear completely? No. Do these signals hint that the "gold rush" is coming to an end? Probably so.

Quite a bit more info out there … try Google for “internet poker growth”

[jjgold]

Sean you are correct

Online poker will just be another form of gambling but nothing like it is now

[scottric]

Good post, Sean. Nice hard facts. I am still going to be interested in the game but in reality to be good at it you really have to spend a lot of time. I'll do what I can but I've got bills to pay like everyone. I also think that if there is a dropoff, then the really good players will still play and any easy money off of newbies is going to be few and far between. It will be interesting to see what happens.

However, it certainly won't stop me from going to any house game when asked!

[darkghost]

I agree with all your points Sean. I've played poker longer than I've made sports bets and the one thing that's attractive about poker is the fact that people think they're alot better than they really are. In fact just like sports betting, its hard to get someone to admit that they lose playing poker. Everyone's ahead of the game and most think they're a winning player. I'm just enjoying the ride while it lasts!!!

[Smoke]

TV is showing it too much and it will backfire

Overkill will turn people off and then turn them off to poker online

JJ does it again..

I swear this guy has a fukkin crystal ball..

JJ give me tommorows winning lottery numbers

[jkilla990]

Cash games in the Boston area, dont really like online, but I do fairly well in live games.

[icancount2one]

In low stakes tournaments I had an ROI around 50% but the hourly was terrible, except in the $4 180 mans which were great. I don't have the roll to sit at $1/2, too much variance.