[bettilimbroke999]

There's some sort of unhealthy infatuation with gold though, you have to admit it...and with many top company balance sheets looking way better than they did at the end of 2008, there are growth opportunities in stocks. As soon as the public is convinced of that, doesn't it lead to a bubble being popped? I would almost expect to see a drop down to a resistance level of about 1200, wouldn't you?

At any rate, what are your thoughts about going long crude via ETFs? I'm giving the market a chance to breathe for a week or so, but I believe you're going to want a long position there.

Oil ETFs ****** me hard when I tried my hand at investing (stock gambling) back in 2009, fukin price was nothing like 40/share for USO (US Oil Fund ETF) down from 117 a year prior, I'm like theres no fuckin way this stays 40 dollars forever well I was half-right at least it didnt stay at 40....it dropped to 34 a share and has stayed around there for the last 2 years (currently its at 31), not sure wtf to tell ya bout oil ETFs but the price plummetted 75% around 3 years ago and has just stayed there ever since. Regardless of how much we're getting gouged at the pump USO stays between 30-40 a share down from 117 in mid-2008

[RonPaul2008]

LOL anytime you read predictions it is for one thing only, to get all the idiots who didnt buy it at 250 to buy it at 1600 so the guys who are sitting on a ton can dump it when it hits their number, which obviously isnt 1600.

The only reason it has gone above 1250 is because enough sheep have been falling for the same bullshit they always fall for and are buying it up at a way over priced number. Once the smart guys who bought it when it was actually cheap start dumping it the gold price will crash also. Just like Silver did. They talked about silver hitting a hundred bucks for weeks, it hit a little more than 60 and everyone dumped it cutting the price in half. Then those guys who sold rebought and waited for the next run of suckers to push it up again.

Fear is the best ally to the rich, and the poor get suckered in every time. if you arent in at a good price then you arent in at all, thats the bottom line. Anyone buying gold now is brain dead. End of story.

Silver only reached a little bit above 50. It went down to 30 and has been hovering around 40 for a little while now. It has probably lost less value then the dollar and has much more hope of regaining value then the dollar does.

[nobs]

LOL anytime you read predictions it is for one thing only, to get all the idiots who didnt buy it at 250 to buy it at 1600 so the guys who are sitting on a ton can dump it when it hits their number, which obviously isnt 1600.

The only reason it has gone above 1250 is because enough sheep have been falling for the same bullshit they always fall for and are buying it up at a way over priced number. Once the smart guys who bought it when it was actually cheap start dumping it the gold price will crash also. Just like Silver did. They talked about silver hitting a hundred bucks for weeks, it hit a little more than 60 and everyone dumped it cutting the price in half. Then those guys who sold rebought and waited for the next run of suckers to push it up again.

Fear is the best ally to the rich, and the poor get suckered in every time. if you arent in at a good price then you arent in at all, thats the bottom line. Anyone buying gold now is brain dead. End of story.

Seriously we have been hearing this same thing since Gold/Silver started their rise. When Gold got to 600, you guy said it would soon collapse back. Then when it got to 800 it was about to fall. Then when it got to 1000 it was going to crash and all the "sheep" were gonna drown. you just keep changing your position, sure some day it has to go back down a little. You cant be wrong forever. It may go to 4000 then crash back to 3200 and you will claim you were right.

But really, why would any of the "smart guys" as you call them actually sell their gold for dollars ? You know, dollars that our govt spends like we breath air. no thats not fair. They spend dollars much faster than we breath air. And whats worse, is there is no way in hell these current outrageous deficits will ever be eliminated. They arent even trying, they are just trying to lower the deficit. So right now, we are deficit spending over $1 trillion per year but not to worry the great plan is to just keep deficit spending something like $700 billion dollars a year and call that progress because it less than we are today ?????

Thats like if i am overspending $100,000 a year for 5 years then I manage to start overspending only $80,000 a year. What the fuk, I am bankrupt either way.

Did you know that all the gold in the world wouldnt even begin to pay off our current national debt ?

[nobs]

am dying to sell it short but maybe traders trying to get it to 2000 and then a big drop off

JJ you have to be fuking stupid rich to be allowed to start selling gold short.

[yahoonino]

http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/break...6&asset=&ccode=

According to this guy. Man I may have to sell my gold jewelry if gold hits $2500. I bought most of mine when it was $500.

hooooooo that gold ??? i tought you where talking jj gold

[pavyracer]

hooooooo that gold ??? i tought you where talking jj gold

You think we can get $2500 if we sell JJ at auction?

[wantitall4moi]

Seriously we have been hearing this same thing since Gold/Silver started their rise. When Gold got to 600, you guy said it would soon collapse back. Then when it got to 800 it was about to fall. Then when it got to 1000 it was going to crash and all the "sheep" were gonna drown. you just keep changing your position, sure some day it has to go back down a little. You cant be wrong forever. It may go to 4000 then crash back to 3200 and you will claim you were right.

But really, why would any of the "smart guys" as you call them actually sell their gold for dollars ? You know, dollars that our govt spends like we breath air. no thats not fair. They spend dollars much faster than we breath air. And whats worse, is there is no way in hell these current outrageous deficits will ever be eliminated. They arent even trying, they are just trying to lower the deficit. So right now, we are deficit spending over $1 trillion per year but not to worry the great plan is to just keep deficit spending something like $700 billion dollars a year and call that progress because it less than we are today ?????

Thats like if i am overspending $100,000 a year for 5 years then I manage to start overspending only $80,000 a year. What the fuk, I am bankrupt either way.

Did you know that all the gold in the world wouldnt even begin to pay off our current national debt ?

When people talk about commodities and gold and silver and whatever, what do they say it is 'worth'? DOLLARS. So it all has to eventually get traded in for some sort of currency, I suppose you could trade it in for yen or pesos, or some foreign currency, but then it woudnt be 'worth' as much now would it?

people seem to forget that little step in the equation. Gold 'value' hasnt really gone up that much it is a combination of the dollar being 'worth' less and a more public run on gold. So it just seems like it has.

Like I said gold has to be turned onto something else before it can be spent. And whatever that is will be tradedin regards to its 'value' equal to the amount the gold is 'worth'. We are only comparing it to the US diollar which is weak rightnow. So if you dont want to trade it for dollars will you get the equivalent dollar value if you trade it for a foreign currency? So an 1800dollar ounce would equate to about 1250 Euros or 140K yen if you took the dollar exchange rate. But would the gold trade for that much? I somehow doubt it.

So when people start talking about worth and value you also have to start looking at exchange rates if you cut out the weak part, which is the dollar in this case.

In other words, since we are all talking about how weak the dollar is and then using that to value gold it is a bad scenario. Especially once you have to get rid of that gold for a real hard currency and you dont want dollars, and you get less than the dollar exchange rate for it. Which is sort of ironic when you think about it. Or means gold isnt worth as much outside the US as people are making it out to be.

[mebaran]

Oil ETFs ****** me hard when I tried my hand at investing (stock gambling) back in 2009, fukin price was nothing like 40/share for USO (US Oil Fund ETF) down from 117 a year prior, I'm like theres no fuckin way this stays 40 dollars forever well I was half-right at least it didnt stay at 40....it dropped to 34 a share and has stayed around there for the last 2 years (currently its at 31), not sure wtf to tell ya bout oil ETFs but the price plummetted 75% around 3 years ago and has just stayed there ever since. Regardless of how much we're getting gouged at the pump USO stays between 30-40 a share down from 117 in mid-2008

Yep, what's strange about USOs and UCOs, etc. is that they really don't correlate to the market at all and are DEFINITELY short-term plays, there's no doubt about that.

I Heard recently (last day or so) that OPEC has slashed it's supply by some-odd amount of millions of barrels of output. If you couple that with the fact that it's basically at it's bottom resistance level as we speak, one would think that the downside is almost non-existent, and it may be worth going long in an ETF (possibly a leveraged fund).

[Bigmikesm]

Gold closed at $1754 today up around 45 dollars for the day. UNREAL.

[nobs]

When people talk about commodities and gold and silver and whatever, what do they say it is 'worth'? DOLLARS. So it all has to eventually get traded in for some sort of currency, I suppose you could trade it in for yen or pesos, or some foreign currency, but then it woudnt be 'worth' as much now would it?

people seem to forget that little step in the equation. Gold 'value' hasnt really gone up that much it is a combination of the dollar being 'worth' less and a more public run on gold. So it just seems like it has.

Like I said gold has to be turned onto something else before it can be spent. And whatever that is will be tradedin regards to its 'value' equal to the amount the gold is 'worth'. We are only comparing it to the US diollar which is weak rightnow. So if you dont want to trade it for dollars will you get the equivalent dollar value if you trade it for a foreign currency? So an 1800dollar ounce would equate to about 1250 Euros or 140K yen if you took the dollar exchange rate. But would the gold trade for that much? I somehow doubt it.

So when people start talking about worth and value you also have to start looking at exchange rates if you cut out the weak part, which is the dollar in this case.

In other words, since we are all talking about how weak the dollar is and then using that to value gold it is a bad scenario. Especially once you have to get rid of that gold for a real hard currency and you dont want dollars, and you get less than the dollar exchange rate for it. Which is sort of ironic when you think about it. Or means gold isnt worth as much outside the US as people are making it out to be.

Yeah I agree, but what you say here seems to support the other side better than your own side.

In your first post you say the smart guys bought it when it was actually cheap, now you say it hasnt gone up that much.

I agree with you, Gold has mainly gone up in real dollars because the outlook on dollars has gone down. But in my opinion the value of the dollar will continue to fall, with us running 1.5 trillion dollar a year deficits thats kind of obvious. Also a financial collapse crushes stocks and the value of the dollar so I agree we have to put our money somewhere and I think Gold is one of the best options there is.

Sure gold could go up to $3200 but during that time the value of the dollar falls by half so you really havent gained anything, you just didnt lose your ass as you would have if you stayed in dollar denominated assets.

Im just saying, if you think the dollar is gonna bounce back then you shouldnt be in gold. I just dont see how the dollar bounces back the way things are and the way we seem to be unwilling to take drastic steps to fix things.

[chemicalbrother]

JJ you have to be fuking stupid rich to be allowed to start selling gold short.

nobs, i'm sure you realize JJ is airbetting the market. he hears 'gold's going to the roof' or 'gold's a bubble' and he types what he hears. he's not short-selling anything.

but you knew that.

[nobs]

up $50 again today. $2000 not that far off. Gold is actually higher than Platinum right now. last time that happened Gold fell back quite a bit.


Chemichal Brother - yeah I think you have to have mid 6 figures in a safety account before they less you short sell gold. You can win big and you can lose big.

[bettilimbroke999]

up $50 again today. $2000 not that far off. Gold is actually higher than Platinum right now. last time that happened Gold fell back quite a bit.


Chemichal Brother - yeah I think you have to have mid 6 figures in a safety account before they less you short sell gold. You can win big and you can lose big.

That's crazy, now when a record goes gold it has actually done better than going platinum

[Outlawdino]

All these arguments are like beating a dead horse. Look at the history and the long term...for every action there is a reaction. It's not major news that the economy/dollar, ect are doing poorly and items such as gold/silver are doing well. This is a process that started yrs ago. I don't see a whole lot out there that is going to change that. For those who invested in gold/silver related assets, I doubt they really care about the larger swings especially when they got into gold/silver yrs ago. They are in for the long haul. With JPM and HSBC needing to cover their shorts you can expect these sort of swings..."panic"...ect. With the uncertainty in the Dow, dollar, economy as a whole, everyday is a buying opportunity for gold/silver bugs...and it has been for sometime...and it will continue.

[ACoochy]

That's crazy, now when a record goes gold it has actually done better than going platinum

Platinum price driven more by industrial demand than as a secure commodity...

[pavyracer]

$1825 now

[bettilimbroke999]

The Dow will hit 14000 BEFORE gold hits 2000.

Johnny call me, I'd like to place a bet on this

[jjgold]

If Paver is right it has to go down as one of top predictions ever at sbr

I say it tops at 2000 because of historic number

[bettilimbroke999]

If Paver is right it has to go down as one of top predictions ever at sbr

I say it tops at 2000 because of historic number

Theres no doubt that gold will hit 2500 eventually

I dont think paver put a date on when it would hit 2500, if he said by the end of the year and it does hit 2500 thats pretty impressive though

[eidolon]

Probably should wait it out until 2015

[agharah1]

I'm not going to debate whether Gold will continue to go up, I'm just going to ask: why does it matter? Gold is quite literally only worth what you are willing to pay for it. Its not even a good hedge against inflation.

One of the things I like about fiat currency is the freedom to choose how you want your wealth. If you think Ben Bernanke is full of it, you can take your wealth and use it to buy foreign currency that's controlled by a central bank you don't think is full of it. If you support the gold standard, you can put your money in gold. If you think gas prices are going up, buy oil. The important thing is you have the freedom to choose. A gold standard would literally make people's debts worth their weight in gold. Its amazing to me that people think being able to tailor our monetary policy to our nation's needs is a bad thing. Imagine we adopt a Gold standard and the next day China starts buying massive amounts of gold on margin. Next thing you know, everything we have is being made in China because its cheaper than ever to import it, and people are going bankrupt left and right because their wages fell from like 600 bucks a week to 50 but they still owe 2300/mo on their house.

[pavyracer]

$1875 now

[jjgold]

Fukkin Greeks are so fukkin sharp

Own all the fukkin diners in NJ and make cash

[Snowball]

Fukkin Greeks are so fukkin sharp

Own all the fukkin diners in NJ and make cash

Greeks own the weinie joints up here.. NY System Weiners
food of the gods.

[BWest]

http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/break...6&asset=&ccode=

According to this guy. Man I may have to sell my gold jewelry if gold hits $2500. I bought most of mine when it was $500.

Now you only need to find a dealer willing to pay you the $$$ without a song and dance about how gold really is not worth money!

[rkelly110]

Bunch of Greeks around here own restaurants/ diners in central PA.

I'm staying away from gold, too high to jump on the wagon. I lost 7k on commodities
a few years back and realized it's the same as horse racing or sports betting.

The only good that comes out of playing the markets is, writing off your losses.

When I tell people I'm a sports investor, I get the look, you all know the look.
They will light up if you are a stock investor. Go figure. (doing better at sports btw)

[Boner_18]

If you like gold buy the miners. Might I suggest ND.TO

Its like an option contract on gold.

[play2winit]

Gold rush might be over, but be ready to buy/sell.

[chemicalbrother]

Theres no doubt that gold will hit 2500 eventually

I dont think paver put a date on when it would hit 2500, if he said by the end of the year and it does hit 2500 thats pretty impressive though

if gold hits $2500 by the end of the year, it would be pretty terrifying.

[vitalyo]

ZeroHedge is wikileaks when it comes to trading .They are very accurate in predicting things .

http://www.zerohedge.com/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero_Hedge








As Chavez Pulls Venezuela's Gold From JP Morgan, Is The Great Scramble For Physical Starting?


Submitted by Tyler Durden on 08/17/2011 16:27 -0400

• Bank of England
• Barclays
• BOE
• Nationalization

In addition to the nationalization of his gold insutry, Chavez earlier also announced that he would recover virtually all gold that Venezuela hold abroad, starting with 99 tons of gold at the Bank of England. As the WSJ reported earlier, "The Bank of England recently received a request from the Venezuelan government about transferring the 99 tons of gold Venezuela holds in the bank back to Venezuela, said a person familiar with the matter. A spokesman from the Bank of England declined to comment whether Venezuela had any gold on deposit at the bank." That's great, but not really a gamechanger. After all the BOE should have said gold. What could well be a gamechanger is that according to an update from Bloomberg, Venezuela has gold with, you guessed it, JP Morgan, Barclays, and Bank Of Nova Scotia. As most know, JPM is one of the 5 vault banks. The fun begins if Chavez demands physical delivery of more than 10.6 tons of physical because as today's CME update of metal depository statistics, JPM only has 338,303 ounces of registered gold in storage. Or roughly 10.6 tons. A modest deposit of this size would cause some serious white hair at JPM as the bank scrambles to find the replacement gold, which has already been pledged about 100 times across the various paper markets. Keep an eye on gold in the illiquid after hour market. The overdue scramble for delivery may be about to begin.









Perfect Storm Sees Gold & Silver Surge – Chavez Gold Action Leads To Backwardation, Short Squeeze And ‘Havoc’ Concerns


Submitted by Tyler Durden on 08/19/2011 07:51 -0400

• Backwardation
• Bank of England
• Barclays
• British Pound
• Central Banks
• default
• New Zealand
• Precious Metals
• Reuters
• Swiss National Bank
• Twitter
• Wall Street Journal

From GoldCore
Perfect Storm Sees Gold & Silver Surge – Chavez Gold Action Leads To Backwardation, Short Squeeze And ‘Havoc’ Concerns
Perfect Storm Sees Gold & Silver Surge – Chavez Gold Action Leads to Backwardation, Short Squeeze and ‘Havoc’ Concerns
All major currencies have fallen sharply against gold and silver again today with gold reaching new record nominal highs in Canadian and New Zealand dollars, in sterling, in euros and of course in dollars as turmoil continues in global markets.
In volatile trade, gold is down 1% from new record highs and is trading at 1,860.10 USD , 1,300.40 EUR , 1,126.40 GBP, 1,470.90 CHF and 142,414 JPY per ounce and has risen some 2% in all currencies. Silver has surged by nearly 3% in all major currencies.

Cross Currency Table
The London AM fix was a third consecutive record nominal high in US dollars. Gold’s London AM fix this morning was USD 1,862, EUR 1299.28, GBP 1126.91 per ounce (from yesterday’s USD 1,794.50, EUR 1,246.44, GBP 1,087.12 per ounce).
Markets continue to assess the ramifications of Venezuela deciding to repatriate their large gold reserves from London to Caracas. Their reserves are large in gold tonnage terms but small in dollar terms.
Venezuela’s central bank is the world’s 15th largest holder of gold, with 365.8 tonnes, of which some 211 tonnes, worth $12.3bn are held in London with the Bank of England and JP Morgan, Barclays, and Bank Of Nova Scotia.
Many analysts and the Gold Anti-Trust Action Commitee (GATA) have long contended that much of the central bank gold reserves have been leased out by bullion banks and that in the event of central banks choosing to repatriate their bullion, significant supply issues could develop which would lead to a short squeeze and a parabolic increases in prices.
The concern is that other central banks concerned about dollar and currency debasement and expropriation of their gold reserves by embattled large debtor sovereign nations may follow suit.
A short squeeze is quite likely given the scale of global investor and central bank demand.

Already, there is a small degree of backwardation developing in the gold market with certain near term futures contracts now trading at higher prices than longer term contracts. The near term August ’11 contract was trading at $1871.40/oz while June ’12 contract is trading at $1,870/oz (1216 GMT). The spread between spot and longer term contracts has fallen suggesting that gold may soon join silver in backwardation.
Silver has been in backwardation for seven months now and backwardation appears to be deepening again. This morning the September ‘11 contract is trading at $41.41 while December ‘12 is trading at $40.65.
The possibility of backwardation in gold suggests that major investors are concerned about the supply of physical gold. Buyers are concerned about securing supply in the future and are willing to pay a premium for spot or immediate delivery.
It could indicate that the short squeeze anticipated by many is taking place and we could see a sharp upward move in gold prices.

This would not be surprising considering the very small size of the physical bullion markets versus the size of the overall financial and currency markets and considering the high demand coming from investors and central banks globally.
It is worth remembering what happened when silver went into backwardation some months ago. It led to a price surge from $30/oz to over $50/oz in 10 weeks.
Backwardation rarely happens in the gold and silver bullion markets. Since gold futures first started to be traded in 1972 (on the Winnipeg Commodity Exchange), there have only been momentary backwardations of a few hours.
It suggests that larger gold bars are difficult to acquire in volume and that the physical market is becoming stressed and less liquid.

Backwardation can end in default, failure to make delivery and in sharply higher prices. A default on the COMEX would have important ramifications for the dollar and could see sharp selling of the dollar and sharp falls on global markets.
Gold backwardation has been warned of by newsletter writer Denis Gartman overnight. He said that if Chavez “does push” for repatriation of $11 billion of gold reserves held in developed nations’ institutions it could lead to backwardation which would wreak ‘havoc’.
Investors should buy “nearer gold” and sell deferred bullion futures, he wrote. October and December futures will trade to premium over February and beyond in this case, Gartman wrote.
Meanwhile, in another sign of gold experiencing a near perfect storm, UBS have said that macro hedge funds were noted buyers and may also have dominated demand during yesterday's Comex sweeps. They said that the funds may have been waiting for a correction to buy but due to concerns of the market moving away from them decided to buy yesterday.
“If participation from the macro hedge fund community has only just started to accelerate, this adds a new dynamic to the gold market.”
In normal financial and economic times, gold would be considered overvalued but we are far from that today and gold is experiencing a near perfect storm which could propel prices higher.
JP Morgan’s call for $2,500 gold by year end does not that outlandish given the fraught financial, economic and monetary conditions today.
A correction remains a real possibility but buying and holding bullion remains the best strategy in today’s volatile markets.
Cost averaging (dollar, euro, pound) is worth considering after the recent price move.