1. #36
    Deuce
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanXL977 View Post
    we didnt invade baghdad
    go read your history
    i think it also cost us like 1 billion and we had allies.
    saddam did nothing in 2003, nothing
    Where did I once say Baghdad?

  2. #37
    element1286
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    Quote Originally Posted by pavyracer View Post
    Toyota tops out wages at $25 an hour but gives out generous bonusses where Detroit still pays $62 an hour. Why will the US tax payers have to pay for $100 billion dollar bailout of the auto industry in Detroit so that the unions can still take home $62 an hour? In capitalistic economies if you don't make profit you cut the wages or the workforce so you won't go belly up. It is not the tax payers responsibility to support a few hundred Detroit employees so they can make $62 an hour.
    Yep. Unions became obsolete years ago. This isn't the 1930's.

  3. #38
    losturmarbles
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanXL977 View Post
    i agree with you up until you suggest drilling here. first of all, it will go to the highest bidder, not us. secondly, it is wrecking the environment, lets try new energy
    hows it wrecking the environment?

  4. #39
    pavyracer
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    Quote Originally Posted by losturmarbles View Post
    hows it wrecking the environment?
    He is referring to oil spills. If we drill in the Artic the pipe line has to be above ground (we can't dig in permafrost) with a high possibility of an ecological disaster when the pipe bursts. If we drill offshore in Florida with the 150 mph hurricanes every year or California with the 7.0 earthquakes it will be very expensive to design a structure that will be disasterproof.
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  5. #40
    losturmarbles
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanXL977 View Post
    i agree with you up until you suggest drilling here. first of all, it will go to the highest bidder, not us. secondly, it is wrecking the environment, lets try new energy
    and nothing wrong with trying new energy, but that should never be your first priority.
    nuclear, coal, and oil are solid resources. moving away from any of these is economic suicide.

  6. #41
    element1286
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    New technology should be developed, but it should not be government mandated. There are many technologies being developed now, and the fact that gas prices keep on going up is cause enough for companies to venture into new markets. Everyone knows that oil is not sustainable, there will be a replacement when the technology and infrastructure is there. Right now, we just have to figure out how to bridge the gap between oil and the new technology.

  7. #42
    losturmarbles
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    Quote Originally Posted by pavyracer View Post
    He is referring to oil spills. If we drill in the Artic the pipe line has to be above ground (we can't dig in permafrost) with a high possibility of an ecological disaster when the pipe bursts. If we drill offshore in Florida with the 150 mph hurricanes every year or California with the 7.0 earthquakes it will be very expensive to design a structure that will be disasterproof.
    thats ridiculous
    we drill in the gulf now with storms and hurricanes every year.
    we wont be drillin in cali

    the possibility of ecological disaster is like 0.00001%

    the real reason is anti-capitalism masked by environmentalists preaching the endangered species tantra

  8. #43
    MBENZ
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5 star bomb View Post
    Ace... listen pal, Mccain = Bush... He voted for 90% of the same shit that Bush did. I do not think Bush was as bad as everyone says he definitely wasnt good... we need a change and Obama has some very good new ideas... I really dont feel like getting into all of it right now. Im sick of politics
    Did you pay your debt yet tinkerbell?When's the last time you paid a capital gains tax?STFU and let the people paying the frieght for morons like you talk.TIA

  9. #44
    pavyracer
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    Quote Originally Posted by losturmarbles View Post
    thats ridiculous
    we drill in the gulf now with storms and hurricanes every year.
    we wont be drillin in cali

    the possibility of ecological disaster is like 0.00001%

    the real reason is anti-capitalism masked by environmentalists preaching the endangered species tantra
    Do you know how much it costs to drill and find oil under 5,000 ft of water? It will take many years to pump it and hundreds of billions need to be spend before you actually make any profit. And the oil companies will sell it to the highest bidder, not the USA.
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  10. #45
    veto
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    im registered but not voting.
    Joe Biden is a racist piece of shit who will probably orchestrate obama's assassination.
    This guy on the video makes valid points about health care and war politics and perhaps most importantly drilling for oil. I dont like either of the candidates but i dont want to have a supply and demand problem driving oil up when we can tap a local supply and dont. Obama has spoken out against offshore drilling here for reasons that scientists call unfounded. He doesnt wanna damage the shelves and cause earthquakes and whatnot.
    The democrats DO tell people what they want to hear.
    Bein black scores Obama a couple points with me but thats really all i give him a couple points.
    I guess i'll still dig up trash on Mccain just to piss off my Obama-sticker-peeling roommate.

  11. #46
    McBa1n
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Another clueless puppet.

    He did not invade Iraq for oil, where is the oil at? Why were we paying 4 dollars a gallon if he invaded for oil? Why don't we even use Iraqi oil? Oil was 4 a gallon because of consumption and demand. Auto needs cash because of the UAW and rediculous wages these nit wits were paid to put a bolt into an engine block for 8 hours a day. They were making 35 an hour and had the best benefits possible. Now demand is way down but these nit wits are still getting paid and the auto companies aren't. They have no money to pay them. Restructuring needs to be done in order to save them and it will be impossible with unions in place.

    Actually - a long term goal was to create a proxy 'imperial power' in the middle east due to the oil there. There's enough information out there to know that was part of the plan. Many in the administration felt that the war would be financed by all that oil. It's a long-term strategic move for the US, not a short-term one.

    Don't let the price at the pump fool you - there's a lot more at work there to generate that price, alongside several other factors. Also - who's pumping the oil out of Iraq? Not Iraq - although they do get a nice royalty.

    There was no other logical decision for invading Iraq and it's the information outside the lines where you will find the truth. While the 'terrorism' angle was spewed out - the goal was always over the black gold.

    If it was about bringing freedom or peace, there's dozens of other countries we could set our sites on that would be much easier to drum up international support to help us - Iraq just gave a convenient 'out', if you will.

  12. #47
    losturmarbles
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    Quote Originally Posted by pavyracer View Post
    Do you know how much it costs to drill and find oil under 5,000 ft of water? It will take many years to pump it and hundreds of billions need to be spend before you actually make any profit. And the oil companies will sell it to the highest bidder, not the USA.
    so now youre concerned with the cost?

    and are you saying it's not profitable??

    if thats the case, then why all the restrictions? if a oil company can't make a profit, then it's not going to want to drill there.

    nearly 1/5th of the US oil consumption comes from prudhoe bay, alaska

  13. #48
    flyingillini
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    ha great video

  14. #49
    EBSB52
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    Quote Originally Posted by McBa1n View Post
    This has to be the worst series of talking point arguments all added together into one. Great, they get some random dude to talk all 'hip and shiz' and say all the same crap that McCain and the Republicans have been spewing for months - with really no base at all for any of the claims. In fact - look at the last 8 years. GG.

    If you want to read up on 'socialism' - check the Socialist Party's platform. They make Democrats look like Republicans.
    >>>>>>>>>>>If you want to read up on 'socialism' - check the Socialist Party's platform. They make Democrats look like Republicans.


    Yea, it's truly pathetic to call the US Socialist or it will be if Obama is elected. Obama's plan is miles away from Socialized and the entire country is miles from Socialism, but the Repubs feel it's important to exadgerate to ridiculous proportions. Stupid thing is that as a woker, Socialism is s better system anyway, unless you buy into the pie-in-the-sky BS about being a millionaire one day.

    America could move several positions left and still be right of the world.

  15. #50
    EBSB52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Until you rooster suckers realize he speaks the truth, you will be in misery. Obama has no plan. Realize that. He will bury this country.

    McCain speaks the truth? He doesn't know what he's saying most of the time, he's wandering around bumping into things like a modern-day Reagan.

    You'll slam Bush, yet won't include McSame even though he voted >90% with Bush. Sorry, the country has seen it, apparently you can't.

  16. #51
    EBSB52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Another clueless puppet.

    He did not invade Iraq for oil, where is the oil at? Why were we paying 4 dollars a gallon if he invaded for oil? Why don't we even use Iraqi oil? Oil was 4 a gallon because of consumption and demand. Auto needs cash because of the UAW and rediculous wages these nit wits were paid to put a bolt into an engine block for 8 hours a day. They were making 35 an hour and had the best benefits possible. Now demand is way down but these nit wits are still getting paid and the auto companies aren't. They have no money to pay them. Restructuring needs to be done in order to save them and it will be impossible with unions in place.

    Yes, American factory workers are amongstthe lowest paid, let's finish fascist Ronnie's job and snuff that last union he missed. We will be competing with China then as for wages. It's always the worker's fault. Europeans stick together, then the rub is to slam Socialism when it works for labor. In Western Europe, federal laws for all countries require between 30 days and 9 weeks vacation, depending upon the country. Here there are no laws, we call it freedom. Yea, freedom to **** the workers and then you come on and say the workers get too much

  17. #52
    EBSB52
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    Quote Originally Posted by WestsidePete View Post
    The reason Obama is leading is because of Bush....if people knew what Bush's plan was....and how McCain's plan is different...if it is different.... then McCain would be leading right now...

    There inlies the problem; McSame can't distinguish himself as different because he isn't.

  18. #53
    EBSB52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Come to Detroit and actually know what is going on before you pass judgment. You have no clue about the auto industry. Toyota and Honda don't need bailouts because they don't have ridiculous wages and unions in place. The big 3 have union wages and regulations in place dating back 50 years.


    Oh and what do the Jap makers pay; finish your point.

  19. #54
    EBSB52
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5 star bomb View Post
    Ace... listen pal, Mccain = Bush... He voted for 90% of the same shit that Bush did. I do not think Bush was as bad as everyone says he definitely wasnt good... we need a change and Obama has some very good new ideas... I really dont feel like getting into all of it right now. Im sick of politics

    Actually it's more like I don't think we know the depths of Bush's bad dealings.

  20. #55
    EBSB52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Gulf War, Hussein invaded Kuwait. Was put to an immediate halt.

    Operation Iraqi Freedom, was to curb an irrational dictator in a hostile environment which was voted on and passed by Dems and Repubs alike.

    No, it was to go in and forcibly search for WMD's. And if any Congressmen didn't vote for the invasion they were unAmerican, right?

  21. #56
    EBSB52
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    Quote Originally Posted by pavyracer View Post
    Toyota tops out wages at $25 an hour but gives out generous bonusses where Detroit still pays $62 an hour. Why will the US tax payers have to pay for $100 billion dollar bailout of the auto industry in Detroit so that the unions can still take home $62 an hour? In capitalistic economies if you don't make profit you cut the wages or the workforce so you won't go belly up. It is not the tax payers responsibility to support a few hundred Detroit employees so they can make $62 an hour.

    $62 an hour...whatever. Any evidence of that? Takes home? WHat does that mean? And can you live out of poverty at topping out at $25/hr? NO, but that's ok, **** the worker; loud and clear.


    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>In capitalistic economies if you don't make profit you cut the wages or the workforce so you won't go belly up.

    Right, while CEO's still make their multi0huge bonuses. In Socialzed countries the workers stay solid and demand fair wages; not real compelling for your argument against Socialism.

    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.It is not the tax payers responsibility to support a few hundred Detroit employees so they can make $62 an hour.

    Provide evidence of teh 62/hr, probably comparing Detroit and the employees total cost versus Toyota and a top scale base pay. Nice skew job. BTW, it's not our responsibility to bail out the banks, but we did anyway.

  22. #57
    EBSB52
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    Quote Originally Posted by WestsidePete View Post
    I wish campaigns were more about plans and ideas...sick of attacks...again, McCain is probably better for the job, but he needs to sell he plan as being different than Bush's...he hasn't done that good enough.
    But truth be shown, it's not different.

  23. #58
    EBSB52
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    Quote Originally Posted by element1286 View Post
    Yep. Unions became obsolete years ago. This isn't the 1930's.

    And yet 1 in 6 Americans have no health insurance, most others have some watered down garbage that is basically on-your-own coverage with all the co-pays. No, we do need unions for many things, wages are extremely low now and medical care is either not there or useless. We must hit bottom first tho, then the people will yank their heads out.
    Last edited by EBSB52; 10-31-08 at 10:31 AM.

  24. #59
    EBSB52
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    Quote Originally Posted by MBENZ View Post
    Did you pay your debt yet tinkerbell?When's the last time you paid a capital gains tax?STFU and let the people paying the frieght for morons like you talk.TIA


    So all that US Constitutional stuff only applies to the rich? Poor or ** have no voice? At least you speak the truth.

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