[sdtrader]

Is there any way you can really beat the tracks when they only pay out 80-85% of what they take in?

[str]

Yes , but you better be willing to work consistently and be patient.

[Seattle Slew]

Agreed, but most of us are not.

Yes , but you better be willing to work consistently and be patient.

[Rio DiNero]

With a huge paddle.

[ncat12]

I just watched an old R Dangerfield movie w/ J Pesci ,(cant remeber the name) one scene showen them at the harness race's with there horse way ahead the jockey realized he was not suppose to win and put his feet down to slow the horse , in real life it might not be so blatant but gurantee something of the sort goes on....I am not saying every race , but the track is gonna get theres

[dugbug15]

ncat,i suggest you read all of posts submitted by str,subject line:questions and answers.he knows what he's talking about in all phases of the horse racing industry.
good luck everyone

[unusialsusp5]

str may know something about training and conditioning but next to nothing about wagering.

[str]

str may know something about training and conditioning but next to nothing about wagering.

ok sir

[warriorfan707]

Handicap the horses, literally. Break their legs

[unusialsusp5]

ok str

[cecil127]

dude's forgot more about horses than you'll ever know, "sir"
and's got class to boot.

[unusialsusp5]

his threads were word for word verbatim from a thoroughbred trainers manual.

[cecil127]

ease up man, the guys nice enough to shed light in this kinda dark forum.....
ill admit to not exactly being on the happy pills but you, sir-are a friggin' downer.

[Art Vandeleigh]

Well, you don't necessarily have to find an overlay on a horse to profit long term, underlays can work too. If for example you see an even money favorite, that you think is crazily overpriced and should be fairly priced at 3-1 (and you are correct in your assessment), you would be profitable long term by playing ANY OTHER horse to win, because you've eliminated about 25% of the original 120% that the win percentages add up to by not playing this even money horse (so you'd make a 5% profit in the long term by playing any other horse in the field to win).

[unusialsusp5]

str just needed to be exposed. believe him if you want too.

[ncat12]

did not mean to offend ....I believe Art said it a lot better

[str]

Well, you don't necessarily have to find an overlay on a horse to profit long term, underlays can work too. If for example you see an even money favorite, that you think is crazily overpriced and should be fairly priced at 3-1 (and you are correct in your assessment), you would be profitable long term by playing ANY OTHER horse to win, because you've eliminated about 25% of the original 120% that the win percentages add up to by not playing this even money horse (so you'd make a 5% profit in the long term by playing any other horse in the field to win).

I completely agree.

[zebra58]

str just needed to be exposed. believe him if you want too.

yes but i thought str was a trainer?

[str]

yes but i thought str was a trainer?

I was.

[str]

I find it funny that one guy tells me that my writing is not very professional and another guy tells me I copied everything I wrote from a "trainers manual".
I would love to see this " trainers manual".
Guess the author didn't pay any attention in English class either.

[unusialsusp5]

it's time to come clean str. if you indeed had experience as an assistant trainer or a hot walker or more than likely you just mucked out stalls, that does not make you a handicapper. i would challenge you to a handicapping contest anytime anywhere for any amount. and i would clean your clock.

[str]

it's time to come clean str. if you indeed had experience as an assistant trainer or a hot walker or more than likely you just mucked out stalls, that does not make you a handicapper. i would challenge you to a handicapping contest anytime anywhere for any amount. and i would clean your clock.

I have copied and pasted a response I wrote to you from a thread dated 4-25-11 called
" Assigning numbers when gauging a horses performance". I felt as though it was appropriate then and feel as though it is appropriate now. I have no idea why you want to attack me and/or my credibility. I will not engage in that type of internet child's play.
I am sure that you are a great handicapper. Good luck with your continued success. I have no interest in a handicapping contest with you or anyone else nor will I arm wrestle to see who is stronger or have a foot race to see who is faster. I have no desire to prove anything to you. As stated below, I am trying to help anyone that would appreciate it.
As for coming clean, if you check the "trainers manual" that you said I quoted, it should explain to you that mucking stalls is a higher placement in the work force than a hot walker is. But having read the "trainers manual" and found out that I was quoting directly from it, you already knew that didn't you.
Knowing that it is impossible to have everyone appreciate the things that one does, and seeing your personal attacks, as well as hurtful comments, I will do what is needed here and just walk away from you.
Here is the quote:


"Having saddled more than 5,000 starters and spent the better part of 3 decades at the track every day, I am trying to help anyone that would appreciate it. Take a look at the blinkers in the avatar ( you might recognize the initials on them)
You obviously think you know much more on the subject of horse racing than I do so good luck with your opinion.
And by the way , this is how you spell gullible, and I am anything but."

[unusialsusp5]

assigning numbers when gauging a horse's performance sounds like andrew beyer's system. and you did plagarize richard kinsey's thoroughbred trainer's manual. no specific examples as i don't have copy available. that's all...

[sdtrader]

If you look for overlays compared to the morning moneyline is this a good strategy? For example, betting on a horse that is a 3-1 moneyline opening and closes at a 6-1.

[Dark Horse]

Can't believe anyone could doubt that str is the real deal. I've never learned more from anyone on any sports forum. He's created the single most interesting thread on any sport I've seen, with information that I have never seen discussed in handicapping books. Let me know if you're ready to put your money where your mouth is unusialsusp5.

sdtrader, your initial statement that the tracks take out a huge chunk of the cash is very valid. There are instances where the track pays out more than is coming in, however. Keywords: pick 6 carryover. If you're going to dedicate a lot of time to research, that's one of the more interesting places.

[unusialsusp5]

dark horse, do you really believe those lengthy str threads were his original ideas and concepts. trainers worth a salt do not bet outside of their own horses races for one thing. he chickened out of a handicapping contest with me ??. and has seemingly crawled back into his 1970's world. you are also totally wrong about pik 6 carryovers...harvey pack a far more knowledgeable horse bettor than str or me nailed it when he pointed out years ago that the small bettor is much bettor off playing the pik 6 when there is no carryover. no syndicates get involved and you have a much better chance of taking one down before it becomes a carryover and winning the say 40k than you do when it is 250k due to the fact there will be less winning tickets out there...anytime and everytime just add up the win prices on a pik 6 that doesn't get hit on any given day and then add up the win prices after it gets hit with the carryover. the payout rarely exceeds what the original carryover amt was...write to harvey pack and he will confirm this.. lives in fla somewhere...

[str]

Thanks Dark Horse . Very kind words.

[JakeLc]

http://www.oregon.gov/RACING/docs/Ma...tudy_Guide.pdf I couldn't find a "trainers manual" but I did find the 2010 version of the study guide for the Oregon trainer test

[blackbox]

great information from these posts-never heard of alot of which you refer to,all I know is that it is fun to watch-a quick thrill, and a expensive hobby. gl to all of you.

[Rio DiNero]

I just watched an old R Dangerfield movie w/ J Pesci ,(cant remeber the name) one scene showen them at the harness race's with there horse way ahead the jockey realized he was not suppose to win and put his feet down to slow the horse , in real life it might not be so blatant but gurantee something of the sort goes on....I am not saying every race , but the track is gonna get theres

One of my favorite movies!

[str]

Having always been a person that wears his emotions on his sleeve, there are several things that I want to point out. I realize that by defending myself I fuel the opportunity for hater's to respond with more lies and childish innuendo, but allowing someone to try and run your name through the mud has never been something I was good at.
1.In my Q and A thread the first question asked was a gambling question. I expected to get quite a few of these because, after all this is a gambling forum. I started off my first answer with this sentence. "First of all , do remember that I was a professional trainer and not a professional gambler but with that said, let me try to help." That is on # 3 of my Q and A thread. Somehow the poster that is hell bent to attack me with blatant lies that he knows full well are just that, wants to tell everyone that "I know next to nothing about betting." I never said that I did. But if I had been asked , I would have said that I know an awful lot about it. I feel as though if anyone is around anything for 40 + years, they probably know a great deal about whatever they have been around. Betting the races was what introduced me to racing when I was 15. As a trainer, betting on races was way , way, on the back burner priority wise. I was too busy doing my job. There was rarely time in my day to pay any attention to betting.Yes , I was there for almost every race, but not to bet.
2. A trainer worth his salt never bets outside of his own horses races anyway?
Where did I say that I did? I do not recall telling people that I was a gambler and bet races all the time. I have bet races. Many races. I know a great deal about it, but it was never my profession.
3. A handicapping contest? Really? The first one to pick 5 winners is the bigger man? The only person talking about my handicapping ability is him. I will try to give handicapping advise to anyone that wants it . I have known professional handicappers throughout my career. I did not find them, they found me. Being a person that likes learning all that I can, I watched, listened, and learned a lot from them. That along with my experiences, gives me plenty of knowledge on the subject.
4. I have not crawled back into the seventies( although for those of you that are not old enough to have experienced it, it was a special decade and you really missed a party. I am thankful to have gotten through it unscathed).
5. Those lengthy threads are my original idea and concept? The fact that some feel that it can't possibly be true is as nice a back handed complement as a person can get.
6. Plagiarism? Please prove it or we will consider your wild unfounded accusations just that.
It's sad when something that starts out so fun to recall and talk about, turns in to a forum for some to spew lies and hatred. I guess that goes with the internet territory. But, it's a damn shame.

[JakeLc]

I'm still on the lookout for that trainer's manual you are being accused of plagiarizing from

[str]

I'm still on the lookout for that trainer's manual you are being accused of plagiarizing from

I Goggled it and apparently it is a college professor named Richard Kinsey who sells this book( course) online.Here is the link:http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sourc...L4lK8A&cad=rja

At the bottom is the guys email address. Let's drag that guy in to the conversation.

[JakeLc]

I had no idea something like that really existed

[str]

I had no idea something like that really existed

Neither did I Jake.
As to the thing that you posted, trainers wanting to pass the written test can study it. It can help . The written test however is maybe 1/3rd that type of question, 1/3rd rules and regulations and 1/3rd common horse sense. Before you are allowed to take a written test, you must have 3 licensed trainers sign a letter of recommendation and pass a barn test. The barn test is given by a veteran trainer who wants to make sure you have a clue as to what you are doing.