[JBEX]

I did not know her personally but I think she did very well back in the day.
Anyway, I have heard of her and plenty of jumper trainers do train at Fair hill, so that makes sense. I assume the last at Belmont is going long on the turf? That is usually where they show up.

yes a statebred 40k mcl..total turf route pedigree but for the specs not as concerned he's up for sale

[str]

yes a statebred 40k mcl..total turf route pedigree but for the specs not as concerned he's up for sale

The claiming tag would not bother me at all.

[JBEX]

yes a statebred 40k mcl..total turf route pedigree but for the specs not as concerned he's up for sale

actually the jockey who hit the price for me yesterday is riding..will only enhance the price..think not concerned is a little too strong relative to the 40k tag..certainly could see the expectations to be better with this pedigree and the fact it's a homebred

[JBEX]

actually the jockey who hit the price for me yesterday is riding..will only enhance the price..think not concerned is a little too strong relative to the 40k tag..certainly could see the expectations to be better with this pedigree and the fact it's a homebred

sent this prior to seeing your response lol

[Thunderground]

While the phrase "anything is possible" applies quite often, I cannot muster up the strength to give anyone the benefit of the doubt after 30 positives in horse racing. These 30 positives are not a new thing. In his own book he wrote, that was published in 1999, he told the story of his 1st positive and how he "came up with a story" for the investigators.

I wasn't aware of that.

I'm more confused now, because you had also pointed out that the upper echelon of the trainers would not risk their reputation, because they would have nothing to gain from it and everything to lose, and because they already had the best horses anyway. I was glad that you told me that, because it removed the idea that a top trainer would be cheating his way to success.

I didn't know that you walked away because of the cheating. Didn't mean to bring back bad memories. I will let this go. It is what it is. All the best.

[str]

I wasn't aware of that.

I'm more confused now, because you had also pointed out that the upper echelon of the trainers would not risk their reputation, because they would have nothing to gain from it and everything to lose, and because they already had the best horses anyway. I was glad that you told me that, because it removed the idea that a top trainer would be cheating his way to success.

I didn't know that you walked away because of the cheating. Didn't mean to bring back bad memories. I will let this go. It is what it is. All the best.

I did not leave solely because of that but it played a very big role in it. Drugs had changed the game. I refused to conform. Lost a bunch of owners in the early 90's because of that. I got it going somewhat again but it never really felt the same. And you didn't bring back any bad memories. The good and great ones far outweigh those. I'll never forget some of them. I had the time of my life !
All the best.

[Thunderground]

nm.

[JBEX]

thought you'd find this interesting str

https://www.horseracingnation.com/ne..._in_racing_123

[JBEX]

hey str

belmont has a 3:05 post so maybe you'll see this..

R1

wesley ward's firster #3 miss alacrity (1-1)

she was really working fast at palm meadows into kee but last 3 works are very slow ..also interesting that he didn't run her at kee..my guess is you'll say it's not a bad sign she didn't run there and probably didn't need any more quick works after what she had done..understand this is all speculation


going to try and beat her with (#1 she's a fast one 3-1)who I played in her debut

[str]

hey str

belmont has a 3:05 post so maybe you'll see this..

R1

wesley ward's firster #3 miss alacrity (1-1)

she was really working fast at palm meadows into kee but last 3 works are very slow ..also interesting that he didn't run her at kee..my guess is you'll say it's not a bad sign she didn't run there and probably didn't need any more quick works after what she had done..understand this is all speculation


going to try and beat her with (#1 she's a fast one 3-1)who I played in her debut

Sorry I missed this.

Lol. Yes, that is exactly what I would have said. He was probably trying to work on relaxing. She obviously had the motor. That would make the most sense. Once a filly gets all wired up , it can be very hard to unwind them mentally. The way she ran, looks like she is really special. Time will tell I guess.
Can't blame you for trying to beat the 2-5 shot. Your horse seemed to run well but ran into a buzz saw.

[str]

thought you'd find this interesting str

https://www.horseracingnation.com/ne..._in_racing_123

I hated that damn drug with a passion. Guess you knew that. It was a license to cheat which more than a couple took full advantage of. It is good to see NY trying to rid the backside of crap like that as well as people that don't play well with others. However, I will never forgive them for what they did to Ricky. What a disgrace.
Thanks for the link JBEX.
All the best and keep up the good work.

[JBEX]

I hated that damn drug with a passion. Guess you knew that. It was a license to cheat which more than a couple took full advantage of. It is good to see NY trying to rid the backside of crap like that as well as people that don't play well with others. However, I will never forgive them for what they did to Ricky. What a disgrace.
Thanks for the link JBEX.
All the best and keep up the good work.

thanks str.. yes what they did to him is a travesty to say the least..


with the clenebutrol seems like a big step towards cleaning up the game although I'm sure that's just a part of it.. guessing the people who relied on this to keep afloat will be in trouble or at least have significant setbacks.. no pity for them and I know you probably feel the same way

[JBEX]

https://www.horseracingnation.com/ne...pening_day_123


hey str

guessing you may have discussed this before but with the mth opener on friday night what's your take on the whip issue..many of the better jockeys like bravo and gallardo aren't going to ride..only 6 races slated on friday opener

[JBEX]

delaware

R5 #7 son of a poni (10-1)

hey str..wanted your opinion on this one..what I see

obvious big negative lol a 20 month layoff off a near miss in a restricted stakes..a very gritty effort on the front end in a 14 horse field

on the other hand was claimed for $10k off of a maiden win and repeated next out vs clm10kn2l..all in all they earned about $43k with him so they are probably well ahead of the game factoring in expenses

$16k not exactly giving him away..not impressed with this field relatively speaking

trainers poor with layoffs and turf horses (factoring roi's)but for the bettors having a profitable year ..admittedly a big negative as that's what's happening here

find the bullet 4f bg followed by a 1 mile work kind of interesting ..kind of looks to me that they gradually asked a little more from him right up to the bullet..then the mile followed by a moderate 4f move..like the feel of that pattern


I think it's possible he could be placed reasonably and ready for a good effort..not what he was but still something in the tank..understand this is more speculation than normal..be nice to see him bet down to around 5-1 as a sign he might be up to it



what do you think ?

[str]

delaware

R5 #7 son of a poni (10-1)

hey str..wanted your opinion on this one..what I see

obvious big negative lol a 20 month layoff off a near miss in a restricted stakes..a very gritty effort on the front end in a 14 horse field

on the other hand was claimed for $10k off of a maiden win and repeated next out vs clm10kn2l..all in all they earned about $43k with him so they are probably well ahead of the game factoring in expenses

$16k not exactly giving him away..not impressed with this field relatively speaking

trainers poor with layoffs and turf horses (factoring roi's)but for the bettors having a profitable year ..admittedly a big negative as that's what's happening here

find the bullet 4f bg followed by a 1 mile work kind of interesting ..kind of looks to me that they gradually asked a little more from him right up to the bullet..then the mile followed by a moderate 4f move..like the feel of that pattern


I think it's possible he could be placed reasonably and ready for a good effort..not what he was but still something in the tank..understand this is more speculation than normal..be nice to see him bet down to around 5-1 as a sign he might be up to it



what do you think ?

A very interesting form to say the least. One has to assume that the works are correct. Who knows for sure. But that said, all in all, they make sense and the horse is more than likely fit enough. I get the impression from the form that the horse might lag back early. If so, that will make it harder to win I would assume. If it lays closer, might run evenly late??

Because of all the guess work involved, if I eliminate all that, I find myself questioning betting a horse that has not run in 1 1/2 years. Most of these types would need a race, but grass is less demanding than dirt, so it's almost like a point vs. counter point thought process.

And while if bet on and bet down, you feel more confident, you also lose value. Another point counter point.

If I was betting, and this is just me, this is the type of race that unless I could land solidly on another horse ( and I did not try to in this race), I would probably play exotics, pick 3's or whatever and use this horse along with one or more others if necessary. That way, I'm covered but not all in. If I went all in, I can hear myself now, mocking myself after the horse runs a decent race but I lose. It takes me to a rule I almost always use which is to not play horses off over a year unless the trainer is great at that. Or, if I'm at the track that day, I pass the race but pay full attention to the horse from being saddled, to pulling up afterwards and take notes for the future. The ability on turf showed. Now it's just a matter if the horse can reach that plateau again. If sound, I would think yes. Also wondering if I would maybe claim the horse today? I would at least consider it and go through the motions in case I decided yes at the last minute.

Also, not sure where they start 7 1/2F on the turf at Delaware. They never ran that distance in my time there. I guess they break with a short run to the clubhouse turn?



One other thing I think about is they will be eligible for 16K starters for a year. Hmmm. Does that factor into the price they are running for? I would think yes.

Pretty cool question about this one, with multiple things of interest. Will be fun to watch this one and the next few races going further.

Very intriguing situation JBEX.

[JBEX]

A very interesting form to say the least. One has to assume that the works are correct. Who knows for sure. But that said, all in all, they make sense and the horse is more than likely fit enough. I get the impression from the form that the horse might lag back early. If so, that will make it harder to win I would assume. If it lays closer, might run evenly late??

Because of all the guess work involved, if I eliminate all that, I find myself questioning betting a horse that has not run in 1 1/2 years. Most of these types would need a race, but grass is less demanding than dirt, so it's almost like a point vs. counter point thought process.

And while if bet on and bet down, you feel more confident, you also lose value. Another point counter point.

If I was betting, and this is just me, this is the type of race that unless I could land solidly on another horse ( and I did not try to in this race), I would probably play exotics, pick 3's or whatever and use this horse along with one or more others if necessary. That way, I'm covered but not all in. If I went all in, I can hear myself now, mocking myself after the horse runs a decent race but I lose. It takes me to a rule I almost always use which is to not play horses off over a year unless the trainer is great at that. Or, if I'm at the track that day, I pass the race but pay full attention to the horse from being saddled, to pulling up afterwards and take notes for the future. The ability on turf showed. Now it's just a matter if the horse can reach that plateau again. If sound, I would think yes. Also wondering if I would maybe claim the horse today? I would at least consider it and go through the motions in case I decided yes at the last minute.

Also, not sure where they start 7 1/2F on the turf at Delaware. They never ran that distance in my time there. I guess they break with a short run to the clubhouse turn?



One other thing I think about is they will be eligible for 16K starters for a year. Hmmm. Does that factor into the price they are running for? I would think yes.

Pretty cool question about this one, with multiple things of interest. Will be fun to watch this one and the next few races going further.

Very intriguing situation JBEX.

thought you'd find it an interesting set of circumstances and of course off that long a layoff always a ?? the grass being less demanding a good thing for sure..something I don't usually factor in so that's good to know in general


I agree with the smaller bet you are not taking full advantage..you gotta treat it like a regular unit bet if you're a believer

if I bet the horse and it ran well but didn't win I'd still feel good about the decision..means I had the right idea and maybe racing luck or just a tad off condition wise to get the job done


interesting it would catch your eye as a potential claim..being eligible for starter allowances and possibly this level again certainly makes it more attractive


well we got something to watch a little later lol..looking forward to seeing how he does..thanks for the feedback

[str]

https://www.horseracingnation.com/ne...pening_day_123


hey str

guessing you may have discussed this before but with the mth opener on friday night what's your take on the whip issue..many of the better jockeys like bravo and gallardo aren't going to ride..only 6 races slated on friday opener

I have talked about the whip and the right and wrong was to use it as a rider. My opinion is based on talking to many fine riders but one particular HOF'er that I grew up with at Bowie in the 70's. He is a top 5 All Time rider IMO.

The constant pounding some riders do is ridiculous. It gets very little out of a horse after a couple of hits. All it has done is create a controversy that has escalated into where we are now.
The stance taken by Monmouth Park is IMO too much. It looks to me like the classic overreaction to a previous action.

Should the constant pounding continue by for the most part inferior riders or even quality riders that have developed the bad habit by not being watched over? Absolutely not. It never should have been allowed in the first place. But should they take it as far as they have. IMO, no.

So, again IMO, because the Stewards, management, horsemen and even the jockey's guild did not get out in front of this and take care of it , they left it to less qualified people to make a rule, thus the mess they currently have.

I see no one to blame but the people that know, are paid to know, or should have known, that it is incorrect use of a whip to pound a horse 8-10 or more times. They had years, heck decades, to fix this and did not.
What is the sense of having HOF'ers hanging around if they can't give something back to the game in the way of common sense knowledge.

I don't get it, but I have gotten very little over the years with management and the decisions , or lack thereof, that they have made.

The whole thing is a shame. Sadly, typical racetrack problems.

[JBEX]

I have talked about the whip and the right and wrong was to use it as a rider. My opinion is based on talking to many fine riders but one particular HOF'er that I grew up with at Bowie in the 70's. He is a top 5 All Time rider IMO.

The constant pounding some riders do is ridiculous. It gets very little out of a horse after a couple of hits. All it has done is create a controversy that has escalated into where we are now.
The stance taken by Monmouth Park is IMO too much. It looks to me like the classic overreaction to a previous action.

Should the constant pounding continue by for the most part inferior riders or even quality riders that have developed the bad habit by not being watched over? Absolutely not. It never should have been allowed in the first place. But should they take it as far as they have. IMO, no.

So, again IMO, because the Stewards, management, horsemen and even the jockey's guild did not get out in front of this and take care of it , they left it to less qualified people to make a rule, thus the mess they currently have.

I see no one to blame but the people that know, are paid to know, or should have known, that it is incorrect use of a whip to pound a horse 8-10 or more times. They had years, heck decades, to fix this and did not.
What is the sense of having HOF'ers hanging around if they can't give something back to the game in the way of common sense knowledge.

I don't get it, but I have gotten very little over the years with management and the decisions , or lack thereof, that they have made.

The whole thing is a shame. Sadly, typical racetrack problems.

definitely sounds ,like you said, that's its something they should have been enforcing a long ways back..now the overreaction and and they're too corrective with the rules..what a mess they've created..going to take a lot away from the meet if the best riders don't participate


thanks str

[JBEX]

hey str

realize I'm posting this a little late for you to see for R1 and if you can't respond in time I understand

belmont R1

#3 kittybe quick (50-1)

all I can say with this one (if she goes) is why lol ? if she can manage 4th in a small field does he get 5%
for that ? trainer is part owner of this one also..guess he must think something of her to give it a go..maybe the name is for a reason..training center I've never heard of but interesting the last work on a heavy track (not sure if I've ever seen that at a US training track)

just find it interesting circumstances..maybe worthy of using in 3rd in triples

[str]

hey str

realize I'm posting this a little late for you to see for R1 and if you can't respond in time I understand

belmont R1

#3 kittybe quick (50-1)

all I can say with this one (if she goes) is why lol ? if she can manage 4th in a small field does he get 5%
for that ? trainer is part owner of this one also..guess he must think something of her to give it a go..maybe the name is for a reason..training center I've never heard of but interesting the last work on a heavy track (not sure if I've ever seen that at a US training track)

just find it interesting circumstances..maybe worthy of using in 3rd in triples

Probably just a Kittens Joy so let's try the turf thing. IDK.
Why not throw her in for 3rd. I say that because babies will probably be strung out if the Favs run off and you never know who will wrap up . And if anything, this one should want to advance through the lane. I guess.
GL if you play it.

[JBEX]

Probably just a Kittens Joy so let's try the turf thing. IDK.
Why not throw her in for 3rd. I say that because babies will probably be strung out if the Favs run off and you never know who will wrap up . And if anything, this one should want to advance through the lane. I guess.
GL if you play it.

yeah I agree..probably worthwhile with a 3rd or 4th for the trainer and punter in triples and maybe supers..I would just play the two wes wards in the top spot..like the strung out because of the speed and a suck up 3rd possiblity..kitten's joy as you said completely a turf infuence

thanks str

[JBEX]

hey str

santa anita has a 2yo msw for cal breds sunday..one of the entrants had his first workout of 1f on jan 22
and followed up with another 1f on feb 3 (former a bullet of 14 and the 2nd was 2nd of 16,12 flat and 11 2/5 respectively)

guessing no but can you work a yearling in december ? also seemed the others who worked in feb hadn't gone longer than 2f..think it's possible they limit jan works to 1f and feb works to 2f ?

[str]

hey str

santa anita has a 2yo msw for cal breds sunday..one of the entrants had his first workout of 1f on jan 22
and followed up with another 1f on feb 3 (former a bullet of 14 and the 2nd was 2nd of 16,12 flat and 11 2/5 respectively)

guessing no but can you work a yearling in december ? also seemed the others who worked in feb hadn't gone longer than 2f..think it's possible they limit jan works to 1f and feb works to 2f ?

Every track has a date when 2 year olds can be allowed on the grounds. In Md. it was usually around March 1st. That was because the 1st baby race was around the 22nd of April. Florida used to run babies in 2F races starting around March ( If memory serves). So they would have allowed babies on the grounds probably about Jan. 1st.

People can work babies whenever they want to on a farm so that is kind of all over the place. The trainers that have them all geared up in April have a system for getting those babies plenty of experience very early. I was never into that so all I know is what I observed.

I don't think they limit the length of the work but the earlier in the year it is, the shorter that race will be. It would be counter productive to work a baby 3 or 4 furlongs for a 2 furlong race. So it can to some degree regulate what the trainer does. I think that is why you are seeing such short works early in the year.
Hope that helps JBEX.

[JBEX]

Every track has a date when 2 year olds can be allowed on the grounds. In Md. it was usually around March 1st. That was because the 1st baby race was around the 22nd of April. Florida used to run babies in 2F races starting around March ( If memory serves). So they would have allowed babies on the grounds probably about Jan. 1st.

People can work babies whenever they want to on a farm so that is kind of all over the place. The trainers that have them all geared up in April have a system for getting those babies plenty of experience very early. I was never into that so all I know is what I observed.

I don't think they limit the length of the work but the earlier in the year it is, the shorter that race will be. It would be counter productive to work a baby 3 or 4 furlongs for a 2 furlong race. So it can to some degree regulate what the trainer does. I think that is why you are seeing such short works early in the year.
Hope that helps JBEX.

yes it does str..just weird to see 1f works lol but guess if it's being prepared for an april debut and they're starting that early it does make some sense..thanks again

[str]

yes it does str..just weird to see 1f works lol but guess if it's being prepared for an april debut and they're starting that early it does make some sense..thanks again

Should have mentioned this as well. It's just as important.
They are not just getting fit but learning to run past a loud huge object that have probably not seen before with all sorts of stuff going on on the apron, like unloading beer kegs and food and stuff like that in the morning. That is the equivalent to all the noise the people standing outside will make ( minus covid), plus the noise echo from the horses themselves running by that bounces off the grandstand walls and back at them while running.
They do have a lot to learn getting acquainted with a track and all that comes with it instead of a farm.

[JBEX]

Should have mentioned this as well. It's just as important.
They are not just getting fit but learning to run past a loud huge object that have probably not seen before with all sorts of stuff going on on the apron, like unloading beer kegs and food and stuff like that in the morning. That is the equivalent to all the noise the people standing outside will make ( minus covid), plus the noise echo from the horses themselves running by that bounces off the grandstand walls and back at them while running.
They do have a lot to learn getting acquainted with a track and all that comes with it instead of a farm.

makes perfect sense

[littlekona]

have you guys noticed that the turf course at many tracks just looks awful.....from Santa Anita to Belmont to Gulf its patchy and just plain awful looking. Its like what did Covid stop the from watering and maintain it right?

[JBEX]

have you guys noticed that the turf course at many tracks just looks awful.....from Santa Anita to Belmont to Gulf its patchy and just plain awful looking. Its like what did Covid stop the from watering and maintain it right?

really haven't kona but I tend to not notice a lot of things that other people would lol..your explanation seems like it could be a possiblility

[str]

have you guys noticed that the turf course at many tracks just looks awful.....from Santa Anita to Belmont to Gulf its patchy and just plain awful looking. Its like what did Covid stop the from watering and maintain it right?

I have no idea why. Usually though, it is from over use. I have not followed it enough to know if that is true or not.

[JBEX]

hey str


nothing about picking the winner but in pimlico R8 mark reid had a nice effort first off the claim (last race) and look how mary eppler did with the horse she claimed a few starts back..race he was claimed out of makes him eligible for this str alw

[JBEX]

hey str


nothing about picking the winner but in pimlico R8 mark reid had a nice effort first off the claim (last race) and look how mary eppler did with the horse she claimed a few starts back..race he was claimed out of makes him eligible for this str alw

delaware R8..sorry

[str]

hey str


nothing about picking the winner but in pimlico R8 mark reid had a nice effort first off the claim (last race) and look how mary eppler did with the horse she claimed a few starts back..race he was claimed out of makes him eligible for this str alw

Just saw it.

Both look like nice claims .Mary has done very well with hers.

Nice to see the people I knew well still getting it done.

[JBEX]

Just saw it.

Both look like nice claims .Mary has done very well with hers.

Nice to see the people I knew well still getting it done.

yeah..I'd feel the same way

[JBEX]

gonna watch..goes in about 10 mins

[JBEX]

looks like a beautiful day to be there..know you've talked about what a nice track it is