Horse Racing questions and answers

Originally Posted by Thunderground

It looks like the cause was identified. So the horse will probably be DQ-ed, but at least it's a reasonable explanation.

from the linked article:

Do I believe that story? Not really.

He's already guilty in the court of public opinion. He himself set the stage for this by cutting it too close to race day with (legal) medications, as you pointed out. The problem I have with this Derby story is that Baffert knows all eyes are on him, so why would he use the same stuff as for Gamine, in the biggest race of the year, and in such a way that it couldn't possibly be missed? Either he's the dumbest guy on the planet, or someone else got close enough to the horse to rub in that cream. He knows he can't make that claim, however, so all he can do now is the honest mistake defense. That's just my read of human nature. I'm well aware that Baffert can be quite two-faced.

I am very sorry to say this but, it is almost impossible for me to fathom that a vet would prescribe a skin cream with a prohibited to race substance in it to a horse that everyone knew was pointing for the Ky. Derby. How can the groom not know this has what it has in it? The ingrediencies are right on the box and probably on the tube as well. How can the asst. trainer not know?
Of course, how can the trainer not know and there is NO WAY that a vet would not know. The circumstances as they are laid out defy any logic whatsoever.

I wrote more but deleted it. Seems we never really get a straight answer out of this barn. Just, it was this, no it was that, hocus pocus until everyone gets worn out on the subject or the next stupid thing occurs.
Like I said earlier, I'm just sick of it.

Strange things are happening in California ever since the rather weird (as in daughter suing daddy) Stronach Group took over Santa Anita and Golden Gates. The two most successful trainers - Hollendorfer and Baffert - are either kicked out or have their reputation destroyed. Coincidence?

Baffert's finest horse last year, - Gamine - , caught twice with doping... When she doesn't need it at all. She wins races by five, six lengths... Now this with the Derby entry. His two highest profile horses in the past year.

I'm sorry, but if I would have to choose between sabotage and idiocy I would have the pick the former. It is simply more likely to me that someone is trying to destroy Baffert, and in such a way that he can't defend himself against it (other than by coming up with crappy excuses), than that he turned into the biggest and most self-destructive idiot on the planet. I may very well be wrong, but that would be my wager. Maybe I should finally order my Phar Lap hat.

Originally Posted by Thunderground

Strange things are happening in California ever since the rather weird (as in daughter suing daddy) Stronach Group took over Santa Anita and Golden Gates. The two most successful trainers - Hollendorfer and Baffert - are either kicked out or have their reputation destroyed. Coincidence?

Baffert's finest horse last year, - Gamine - , caught twice with doping... When she doesn't need it at all. She wins races by five, six lengths... Now this with the Derby entry. His two highest profile horses in the past year.

I'm sorry, but if I would have to choose between sabotage and idiocy I would have the pick the former. It is simply more likely to me that someone is trying to destroy Baffert, and in such a way that he can't defend himself against it (other than by coming up with crappy excuses), than that he turned into the biggest and most self-destructive idiot on the planet. I may very well be wrong, but that would be my wager. Maybe I should finally order my Phar Lap hat.

While the phrase "anything is possible" applies quite often, I cannot muster up the strength to give anyone the benefit of the doubt after 30 positives in horse racing. These 30 positives are not a new thing. In his own book he wrote, that was published in 1999, he told the story of his 1st positive and how he "came up with a story" for the investigators.

If I sound bitter towards anyone who gets multiple positives where it becomes obvious they are trying to take an edge, it's because I am. And 30 positives is way more than multiple IMO.

I was forced to try and compete against that scenario in Maryland in the 90's. An unlevel playing field that I was told by the Stewards would not become level again any time soon. It forced me out of a game that I loved and respected, and had worked at from Sept. of 1972 until May of 2001.

I respect your opinion, but for me, I just can't get there. Too much baggage I guess.
All the best to you.

hey str


are you familiar (or just know of) the trainer janet elliot? I've seen her name going back decades..looked her up and she dates back to the late 70's.. her peak time was the 90's and a lot less active the last 20 years (especially the last 10)..she's got a horse in the last at belmont today coming in from training at fair hill that I find a little interesting at a huge price

Originally Posted by JBEX

hey str


are you familiar (or just know of) the trainer janet elliot? I've seen her name going back decades..looked her up and she dates back to the late 70's.. her peak time was the 90's and a lot less active the last 20 years (especially the last 10)..she's got a horse in the last at belmont today coming in from training at fair hill that I find a little interesting at a huge price

I did not know her personally but I think she did very well back in the day.
Anyway, I have heard of her and plenty of jumper trainers do train at Fair hill, so that makes sense. I assume the last at Belmont is going long on the turf? That is usually where they show up.

Originally Posted by str

I did not know her personally but I think she did very well back in the day.
Anyway, I have heard of her and plenty of jumper trainers do train at Fair hill, so that makes sense. I assume the last at Belmont is going long on the turf? That is usually where they show up.

yes a statebred 40k mcl..total turf route pedigree but for the specs not as concerned he's up for sale

Originally Posted by JBEX

yes a statebred 40k mcl..total turf route pedigree but for the specs not as concerned he's up for sale

The claiming tag would not bother me at all.

Originally Posted by JBEX

yes a statebred 40k mcl..total turf route pedigree but for the specs not as concerned he's up for sale

actually the jockey who hit the price for me yesterday is riding..will only enhance the price..think not concerned is a little too strong relative to the 40k tag..certainly could see the expectations to be better with this pedigree and the fact it's a homebred

Originally Posted by JBEX

actually the jockey who hit the price for me yesterday is riding..will only enhance the price..think not concerned is a little too strong relative to the 40k tag..certainly could see the expectations to be better with this pedigree and the fact it's a homebred

sent this prior to seeing your response lol

Originally Posted by str

While the phrase "anything is possible" applies quite often, I cannot muster up the strength to give anyone the benefit of the doubt after 30 positives in horse racing. These 30 positives are not a new thing. In his own book he wrote, that was published in 1999, he told the story of his 1st positive and how he "came up with a story" for the investigators.

I wasn't aware of that.

I'm more confused now, because you had also pointed out that the upper echelon of the trainers would not risk their reputation, because they would have nothing to gain from it and everything to lose, and because they already had the best horses anyway. I was glad that you told me that, because it removed the idea that a top trainer would be cheating his way to success.

I didn't know that you walked away because of the cheating. Didn't mean to bring back bad memories. I will let this go. It is what it is. All the best.

Originally Posted by Thunderground

I wasn't aware of that.

I'm more confused now, because you had also pointed out that the upper echelon of the trainers would not risk their reputation, because they would have nothing to gain from it and everything to lose, and because they already had the best horses anyway. I was glad that you told me that, because it removed the idea that a top trainer would be cheating his way to success.

I didn't know that you walked away because of the cheating. Didn't mean to bring back bad memories. I will let this go. It is what it is. All the best.

I did not leave solely because of that but it played a very big role in it. Drugs had changed the game. I refused to conform. Lost a bunch of owners in the early 90's because of that. I got it going somewhat again but it never really felt the same. And you didn't bring back any bad memories. The good and great ones far outweigh those. I'll never forget some of them. I had the time of my life !
All the best.

nm.

thought you'd find this interesting str

https://www.horseracingnation.com/ne..._in_racing_123

hey str

belmont has a 3:05 post so maybe you'll see this..

R1

wesley ward's firster #3 miss alacrity (1-1)

she was really working fast at palm meadows into kee but last 3 works are very slow ..also interesting that he didn't run her at kee..my guess is you'll say it's not a bad sign she didn't run there and probably didn't need any more quick works after what she had done..understand this is all speculation


going to try and beat her with (#1 she's a fast one 3-1)who I played in her debut

Originally Posted by JBEX

hey str

belmont has a 3:05 post so maybe you'll see this..

R1

wesley ward's firster #3 miss alacrity (1-1)

she was really working fast at palm meadows into kee but last 3 works are very slow ..also interesting that he didn't run her at kee..my guess is you'll say it's not a bad sign she didn't run there and probably didn't need any more quick works after what she had done..understand this is all speculation


going to try and beat her with (#1 she's a fast one 3-1)who I played in her debut

Sorry I missed this.

Lol. Yes, that is exactly what I would have said. He was probably trying to work on relaxing. She obviously had the motor. That would make the most sense. Once a filly gets all wired up , it can be very hard to unwind them mentally. The way she ran, looks like she is really special. Time will tell I guess.
Can't blame you for trying to beat the 2-5 shot. Your horse seemed to run well but ran into a buzz saw.