[King_Suckerman]

so why i sliquidity worse than 2 years ago? why are people drifting away from matchbook?

[wrongturn]

Sharpcat, if a recreational player knows -410 at MB is a ripoff compared to market -380, then he must also notice that at many times MB has the best price. If he chooses to ignore the obvious benefits, not to mention that he could have better than market price, like -370, if he makes the offer, then he is just too dumb.

[Jontheman]

Sharpcat, the posting of joke offers happens all the time on newly opened or thin markets at Betfair. Doesn't seem to harm them at all. I agree it's just not a factor. In fact having the option to bet at -500 on the line that's -200 elsewhere is better for liquidity than having no option at all. Anybody that objects it's up to them to provide a better offer...

[Hareeba!]

so why i sliquidity worse than 2 years ago? why are people drifting away from matchbook?

I would think due to the difficulties and costs involved in depositing and withdrawing thanks to Uncle Sam and the fact that MB don't appear to have done as much as other shops to make it any easier

[wrongturn]

Another theory is that MB tightens up on the credit players since some said they are burned by stiffs.

[sharpcat]

Sharpcat, if a recreational player knows -410 at MB is a ripoff compared to market -380, then he must also notice that at many times MB has the best price. If he chooses to ignore the obvious benefits, not to mention that he could have better than market price, like -370, if he makes the offer, then he is just too dumb.

Well if MB only has competitive pricing on any one game for 2 hours a day do you really think that player is going to look at MB pricing every hour or do you think that player is going to look at 5dimes price and matchbooks price 1 time and make his decision.

You guys tend to forget that for every 1 person who is an educated player there are at least 5 who don't know squat except "I want to bet the Lakers to win". You really do not have to have any more than a 5th grade education to see that at 2:00 p.m. you can bet $410 on the Lakers to win $100 at MB or you can bet $380 on the Lakers to win $100 at 5Dimes.

Trust me I am funded at multiple books and I am fully aware of the benefits that you will find from time to time at matchbook. I am not arguing the fact that MB is a must have out, I am arguing why your average recreational player has no interest to play at matchbook. I am talking about players who are just looking for action not guys like yourself or others here who frequent sports gambling related forums daily believe it or not we are outnumbered by clueless players.

[LordVodka]

The live lines at matchbook were the biggest ripoff I've ever seen.

Yankees winning by 2 and the live line is -999.

Good one.

[Sawyer]

Also, you have to make offers too.

For example, let's say market is like this:

Phoenix +106
New York -100

You like to pick New York. Make this offer: New York +105. Wait 'til it get matched. Many times (even if there's low volume) you will see that your bet will be matched. If it doesn't get matched at +105, then try +104. That's how exchange works. Remember, you don't pay any comission if your offer is matched. Do you know what it means? Public joe lays -110 while you pick it at plus money, +105! Sometimes +108! Not always but many times, you can catch offers like these. It's a great advantage. So why still lay -110?

Vodka,

This line is set by a user. Make an offer like -200 and wait for your offer to get matched.
But in-play volume is poor in Matchbook. Go to Betfair and observe soccer markets. Too many users, high volume. If you use Matchbook more often, volume will be much better.

[CHUBNUT]

matchbooks markets are initially run by bots nowadays offering zero value compared to the rest of the industry. If you or I put a price to give us and the taker the best industry value it will only be taken if the line goes against you. Its only worth is just before start time when you might possibily beat the industry best but even then its unlikely when you factor in by that time half your selections line will have gone against you. The main reason liquidity is bad is they only deal in dollars. That knocks out a huge part of the global market, sterling and euro bettors just cant accept the exchange rates and possible dollar decline as it has over the last 3 years.

[sharpcat]

Also, you have to make offers too.

For example, let's say market is like this:

Phoenix +106
New York -100

You like to pick New York. Make this offer: New York +105. Wait 'til it get matched. Many times (even if there's low volume) you will see that your bet will be matched. If it doesn't get matched at +105, then try +104. That's how exchange works. Remember, you don't pay any comission if your offer is matched. Do you know what it means? Public joe lays -110 while you pick it at plus money, +105! Sometimes +108! Not always but many times, you can catch offers like these. It's a great advantage. So why still lay -110?

Vodka,

This line is set by a user. Make an offer like -200 and wait for your offer to get matched.
But in-play volume is poor in Matchbook. Go to Betfair and observe soccer markets. Too many users, high volume. If you use Matchbook more often, volume will be much better.

A big problem that some players face with making offers is whether or not your bet will be matched for the amount you want to invest.

Here is an example:

Say you feel that Team A has a 55% likelihood of winning ATS and you want to get down $1,000.

You make an offer at MB for $1,000 asking for -101 and by game time only $500 of your offer was matched. You could have gotten down $1,000 at -110 with any other bookie when you made your offer.

-$500 at -101 would give you a +EV of roughly $47
-$1,000 at -110 would give you a +EV of roughly $50

Clearly you would be better off longterm laying $1,000 at -110 than you would laying $500 at -101. I am not sure about others but this is one of my major problems with making offers I am not an arb player and I bet with Kelly, I look at my long term expected value when making wagers that is more important to me than the price I pay.

[Hareeba!]

A big problem that some players face with making offers is whether or not your bet will be matched for the amount you want to invest.

Here is an example:

Say you feel that Team A has a 55% likelihood of winning ATS and you want to get down $1,000.

You make an offer at MB for $1,000 asking for -101 and by game time only $500 of your offer was matched. You could have gotten down $1,000 at -110 with any other bookie when you made your offer.

-$500 at -101 would give you a +EV of roughly $47
-$1,000 at -110 would give you a +EV of roughly $50

Clearly you would be better off longterm laying $1,000 at -110 than you would laying $500 at -101. I am not sure about others but this is one of my major problems with making offers I am not an arb player and I bet with Kelly, I look at my long term expected value when making wagers that is more important to me than the price I pay.

exchanges are great but you have to be in a position to monitor your offers .. that may not suit everybody

[Sawyer]

Example:

Detroit +5 is -110 at TheGreek.
Detroit +5 is +108 at Matchbook. There's also 11k at Detroit +5 @ +107.

-110 or +108?
Choice is yours..

[frankthetank]

Matchbook = WSEX
You are playing with fire at betting either. They will both die soon enough.

[sharpcat]

Example:

Detroit +5 is -110 at TheGreek.
Detroit +5 is +108 at Matchbook. There's also 11k at Detroit +5 @ +107.

-110 or +108?
Choice is yours..

That is a little unrealistic considering the line moved at the greek 2 minutes after you made this post and the line was at +5.5 at basically 90% of books for a half hour before you made this post.

You basically compared matchbook to the bad side of the line at a slow moving book
Still a good price though, just not as good as you made it out to be

[Hareeba!]

That is a little unrealistic considering the line moved at the greek 2 minutes after you made this post and the line was at +5.5 at basically 90% of books for a half hour before you made this post.

You basically compared matchbook to the bad side of the line at a slow moving book
Still a good price though, just not as good as you made it out to be

and knock off another point for the commission payable

[KGambler]

For you folks that say things like "baseball the only thing MB is good for" OR "Matchbook has been dead for me for long time"....................YOU REALLY HAVE TO BE KIDDING or you must have an AGENDA TO BASH MATCHBOOK..........because I certainly believe none of you here are this ignorant in the least.



MATCHBOOK is a must out for a variety of reasons..........


Pay attention to what poster SAWYER stated in this thread, he is spot on!!

Yes, I was going to say the same. These people either don't use Matchbook or they have an agenda. Why am I able to bet $3K on NBA regular season games, at great odds, and these clowns can't get down for $200 and would rather lay -110 at Bodog???

[KGambler]

Agree with several others on this thread - Matchy is my #1. Also agree here that the trap bidders are a big problem. It's worse than bidding out of market; if a market is quiet they put up an ask on one side that looks like the right price on the other (i.e., 98% for the team losing by blowout rather than winning by blow out) hoping to get hit. I front bids by these human filth whenever I get the chance and forward complaints to Matchy. Others should do the same. I do wish they would show trap bidders the door.

Good post.

[KGambler]

I can't see that happening when a) few Europeans and Asians have any interest in US sports and b) they can use Betfair which runs rings around Matchbook on everything else

What is BetFair's commission structure?

[Hareeba!]

Agree with several others on this thread - Matchy is my #1. Also agree here that the trap bidders are a big problem. It's worse than bidding out of market; if a market is quiet they put up an ask on one side that looks like the right price on the other (i.e., 98% for the team losing by blowout rather than winning by blow out) hoping to get hit. I front bids by these human filth whenever I get the chance and forward complaints to Matchy. Others should do the same. I do wish they would show trap bidders the door.

agree, but exactly the same thing happens at Betfair (and I presume all other exchanges)

[KGambler]

Really? Why would someone hanging a sucker line chase 100 people away? You just don't play it. If I saw an offer for -500 on something that should be -200, it wouldn't even register with me.

If anyone wants to accept the crap offer, it is no skin off my nutsack.

I'm not trying to be argumentative but to me personally, I can't think of a bigger non-factor than that.

One time in live betting I took a team at -2100 which should have been +2100. It was a baseball team trailing by two runs going into the 7th or 8th inning. The market looked like -2100/-2300 and I just had a brain fart and assumed I was looking at +2100/-2300. You may think it would never happen to you, but it can. I guess it's like a car crash. It shouldn't happen. It does.

I noticed right after I accepted the bet and emailed MB. They acknowledged that they had people making what they called "malicious offers", but they refused to do jack shit about it. Their management really is terrible. I hope the new ownership group brings a big broom with it.

[Hareeba!]

What is BetFair's commission structure?

basic rate is 5% but payable on winnings only
however, regular players earn discounts and the high flyers can get it down as low as 2%
more costly that Matchbook generally but that doesn't mean that you can't achieve better net prices there than at Matchbook sometimes

[LVHerbie]

I recommend they start jumping through hoops..........

Spot on... Matchbook is a must have out especially if you are an American...

[KGambler]

Its only worth is just before start time when you might possibily beat the industry best but even then its unlikely when you factor in by that time half your selections line will have gone against you.

Once again, this is not even close to being true.

The main reason liquidity is bad is they only deal in dollars. That knocks out a huge part of the global market, sterling and euro bettors just cant accept the exchange rates and possible dollar decline as it has over the last 3 years.

These three currencies are all terrible and will all be engaged in a "race to the bottom". I am not sure why anyone would want to hold Euros or Pounds Sterling over dollars. It's like preferring dog shit to cat shit.

But yeah, if that is a problem for European bettors, then MB management needs to get their heads out of their asses and do something about it.

[KGambler]

basic rate is 5% but payable on winnings only
however, regular players earn discounts and the high flyers can get it down as low as 2%
more costly that Matchbook generally but that doesn't mean that you can't achieve better net prices there than at Matchbook sometimes

[Ibrakadabra]

These three currencies are all terrible and will all be engaged in a "race to the bottom". I am not sure why anyone would want to hold Euros or Pounds Sterling over dollars. It's like preferring dog shit to cat shit.

You really mean you donīt understand the point of offering different currencies for customers from different countries?

Of course it ainīt about the value of the currency at this specific point. But if you live in a country where Euros is used itīs quite an advantage to use that for betting as well. That way you donīt have to worry about exchange fees and change of relative value of your currency.

[Sawyer]

What is BetFair's commission structure?

%2 to %5. But Premium Charge costs %20!?

God Bless MatchbooK!

[vanzack]

Once again, I ask the question....

Why wont MB offer rec gamblers a way to deposit?

I mean true rec gamblers, not message board rec gamblers. Guys that want to deposit NOW.

If MB offered ** or ** (even charging the player for the costs), liquidity wouldnt be a problem.

[FourLengthsClear]

One time in live betting I took a team at -2100 which should have been +2100. It was a baseball team trailing by two runs going into the 7th or 8th inning. The market looked like -2100/-2300 and I just had a brain fart and assumed I was looking at +2100/-2300. You may think it would never happen to you, but it can. I guess it's like a car crash. It shouldn't happen. It does.

I noticed right after I accepted the bet and emailed MB. They acknowledged that they had people making what they called "malicious offers", but they refused to do jack shit about it. Their management really is terrible. I hope the new ownership group brings a big broom with it.

That is one thing that the new management will do nothing about.

Your case is an obvious case of a "malicious offer" but the question, as always, would be where do you draw the line? To my knowledge no exchange has ever intervened in such a way and have taken the view that it is the user's responsibility to avoid "brain farts".

[chance]

I would love to bet at Matchbook.

BUT. I don't believe their commission structure is viable. With the cost of transferring funds which they incur I don't believe they have a viable business. I have talked to betfair people who say their higher 2-5% structure is not viable but they are stuck with it now.

[Ibrakadabra]

Once again, I ask the question....

Why wont MB offer rec gamblers a way to deposit?

I mean true rec gamblers, not message board rec gamblers. Guys that want to deposit NOW.

If MB offered ** or ** (even charging the player for the costs), liquidity wouldnt be a problem.

I think with what they can earn from a rec compared to the cost of taking them itīs just not worth offering other methods just to attract this category. I mean, how many 10 dollar bets are needed to make a difference financially?

I actually canīt see it would make a big difference the liquidity either.

[Hareeba!]

%2 to %5. But Premium Charge costs %20!?

God Bless MatchbooK!

people here keep raising the Premium charge issue but how many are liable to it?

only very few and there is really no need for 99% of players to concern themselves with it at all

[Hareeba!]

would you care to share the joke please KG?

[KGambler]

You really mean you donīt understand the point of offering different currencies for customers from different countries?

Of course it ainīt about the value of the currency at this specific point. But if you live in a country where Euros is used itīs quite an advantage to use that for betting as well. That way you donīt have to worry about exchange fees and change of relative value of your currency.

I can understand having a problem with the exchange rate if they aren't giving a fair one. Getting charged fees for that is ridiculous. They should be accomodating to their customers, not looking for another area to bang them for commissions.

Everyone in the world is forced to worry about the "change of relative value of your currency". Oh wait, everyone in the world WHO HAS MONEY has to worry about it.

If the dollar goes up against the Euro, you will have gained on that small portion of your wealth you keep on Matchbook. If it goes down, you will have lost. You should be hedged against a fall in the Euro anyway. It would actually help you to have some portion of your wealth in dollars. That way you can worry less about the "change of relative value of your currency". This is like investment 101 - diversification.

Of course, the dollar is complete garbage so you would be much better off diversifying into other currencies/commodities. But the euro is also trash, so putting a small portion of your wealth into dollars should be looked at as a positive, not a negative.

At least one major investment house has come out and said the euro will not even exist in the near future. I give it less than 10 years.

[KGambler]

Once again, I ask the question....

Why wont MB offer rec gamblers a way to deposit?

I mean true rec gamblers, not message board rec gamblers. Guys that want to deposit NOW.

If MB offered ** or ** (even charging the player for the costs), liquidity wouldnt be a problem.

Serious question... How much money are you looking to deposit via ** or **?

[Chuck Sims]

Another theory is that MB tightens up on the credit players since some said they are burned by stiffs.