[arnie_marta]

So what ended up happening?

2 goals have already been scored in the first half.

Nothing happened.....


From what I know so far from this bookie, i'm still VERY AFRAID..
They have make the bets void, didn't accept nothing...

Now I'm going to see if they put them up, just for taking our money.

[betplom]

Cris is an A+ book.

[arnie_marta]

Cris is an A+ book.

But it shouldn't be..... Simple as that....


With all the prove that was provided to SBR, lets see if that remains the same.

[Peep]

Did we ever find out how much money these "friends" bet? Are we talking about a $1000.00 or ten of thousands here?

[bigboydan]

Did we ever find out how much money these "friends" bet? Are we talking about a $1000.00 or ten of thousands here?

I haven't heard that info yet Peep. I'm assuming that all the info and facts are still being gathered on this case.

This situation is quite a bit different from most others it sounds like.

[arnie_marta]

We are still waiting for some response from SBR.


BetCris is supposed to be A+ bookie, shouldn't we have any response at the moment?


Take in mind that I'm not, in anyway "attacking" you but it is very strange.


Do you need something from me?
Bigboydan, anything that you guys need just ask.

[AgainstAllOdds]

Just relax son....SBR isnt throwing your case to the side....these things take time.

[arnie_marta]

Just relax son....SBR isnt throwing your case to the side....these things take time.

Bigboydan knows what I am talking about

[Frank]

I can tell you that during the whole tournament they placed all alternate lines in the same link (EURO 2008).

Then just when it came to the semifinals they created a new link (EURO ALTERNATE LINES).

I am sure that when they decided to do this, they accidentally moved 1.5 goals into the wrong link (1ST HALFS) instead of (EURO ALTERNATE LINES).

This is definately a bad line but if all 10 or however many people contacted them and asked you would think somebody at the book would have noticed.

[arnie_marta]

I can tell you that during the whole tournament they placed all alternate lines in the same link (EURO 2008).

Then just when it came to the semifinals they created a new link (EURO ALTERNATE LINES).

I am sure that when they decided to do this, they accidentally moved 1.5 goals into the wrong link (1ST HALFS) instead of (EURO ALTERNATE LINES).

This is definately a bad line but if all 10 or however many people contacted them and asked you would think somebody at the book would have noticed.

Frank, specifically when asked more then once by the same person. I asked 8 times...

I went to the point of saying sorry for being so annoying, but that the odd was very different that the other bookies.

[09:58:38] CR177852: sory for asking, but it is my money
[09:58:43] CR177852: very very sory
[09:58:47] CR177852: yes
[10:00:58] CS - Mark: no worries, the line was confirmed by the Manager

For being honest, I know that now there is nothing that can be done for me or anyone else that loose money with this.

I just want for this bookie to have a fair rating, and the one they have now, CLEARLY IS NOT.

[ChristopherMolt]

They did the same with me.

Confirmed me it was correct even after I told them it maybe was not.

I asked it many times. They told me: "manager confirmed the line, it is correct".

They even told me they were balancing markets because someone betted big on the other side.

Now this is what I consider to be the worst. This was a lie. A-books dont lie. And I agree with Arnie, if they are not responsible for what they say or do, how can they have acess to our passwords? How can I trust them with that?

[Bill Dozer]

Guys,
I hope to speak with the soccer trader tomorrow.

Obviously CRIS made two errors, one being the wrong line and two, understanding the mistake. If CRIS hung the line and then someone calls and says that line looks bad and CRIS says it's fine, because they were looking at it in the context of a halftime line, I don't see a problem with them canceling it prior to the game. Books get a lot of leeway with true palps before the funds are at risk and aren't required to be sympathetic to price traders. Everyone who joined CRIS to bet it knew it was an error and knew the clerk was making another error. Getting the live chat clerk to repeat it for a group hurts the case.

In this scenario, I would say the fair thing for the book to do is to cover any changes in the market price that you guys missed out on. If there was a good price on a good line that you missed because you bet this one...etc. Basically, if the real line moved against you while you were sitting on this one you had a monetary loss. That's assuming you actually wanted the bet and weren't just on the bad line.

In the scenario of the game starting before being caught, it's a live bet.

At least one player said he described the bet in detail to an actual trader who guaranteed it wouldn't be cancelled. From his account of what happened he would have a strong case for getting paid the equity difference in the before and after bets.

[arnie_marta]

Again,

This are not basic clerks.....

They have acess to the passwords...
They change the passwords, because there is no other way...


It was guaranteed that they have spoken to the wager manager for more than 5 hours, and always the same was said.

CS - Mark: yesterday we were assured by the wagering department that the line was for the first half

As you can see in some posts back, they even said why:

CS - Aris: the line is correct
CS - Aris:: Let me explain to you how betting exposure affects the line:
CS - Aris:: the opening line reflects what the line manager believes will be the game result based on statistics and some other information
CS - Aris:: the company's profit is given by the juice.
CS - Aris:: it does not matter which side wins the game, the company will always have the juice. Thats why we try to make our customers to bet on both sides proportionally, in order to have the same amount of money on both sides
CS - Aris:: In this game in particular, looks like a big bettor made a HUGE wager on the over. So we made the under more attractive so our customers will bet on the under. That way the money will be equally balanced on both sides
CS - Aris:: So do not worry the line is correct and it won't be cancelled

do not make this as a simple mistake, as it is clearly not....


This is a HUGE problem...

If someone asks 8 times if a line is correct!!!
If someone clearly asks to be confirmed by the managers!!!
If someone asks for a email confirming the odd!!!
If someone asks a email confirming that it will not be void, and that it was confirmed by the managers!!!

This is a HUGE problem


I cannot believe that you really think that this was a simple bad line...
I cannot believe that you think this is a A+ or even A- house...

[jazzmonkey]

Evening all -

I am not one and the same as your identical posters above...

Anyway - what I did was, again, bet the line, speak to live chat who confirmed that all was ok. They went to great trouble to tell me how a line works, I told them thank you, but I am quite aware how it works. I let them know the mistake, told them exactly what was wrong and was assured that nothing would be cancelled. I even asked if I could go take the odds at a sister site (had take at diamond already) and was told - go for it. So I did.

Diamond bet voided as above - not happy as was told nothing would be voided but there we go.

Now the problem I have is as follows - the bet at bookmaker - the identical bet under 3.5 goals for the first half was NOT voided. I only discovered this after the bet had been settled as a LOSER. Now I have screenshots to show that it is first half only etc but have been told that the bet relates to the entire game - which is rubbish.

I have been travelling so havent had a chance to call the soccer line manager but would be interested to know opinions before I do so.

[UncleChris]

Sorry, but it is well known that guys and girls from cris CS are often a bit confused and anything but experts when it comes to betting details. Nevertheless they were always nice to me and I got use to it that it is nothing more than a call center with low educated(for this job!) and probably low paid young people.

So as long as you are not talking to a line manager you cannot expect a line WAY OFF MARKET can be confirmed correctly from CS. The person made a fault and fautls are manlike. So you arbers/scalper/shot taker or whatever should have known better because it was very obvious...

Sorry for you but imo Cris is still 1st choice in this business with just a handful reliable books left.

[Bill Dozer]

Jazzmonkey,
It sounds like you bet a different line and maybe you believe this was the other side of the mistake we are discussing? Please do send those screenshots to SBR.

Arnie,
You followed the right procedure and if the line was not obviously wrong or if the game had started or finished, you would have a bet.

But, a staff member failing to acknowledge/understand the bad line and correct the matter at that time does not mean 10 people get free money.

If I see a total of 125 for a Phoenix Suns NBA game and get the staff to tell me the line is good (along with a bookmaking 101 lesson on how lines become opinionated) the bet is not going to stand when caught before tip-off.

You have a valid CS complaint and negative feedback worth sharing and is appreciated. CRIS has made mistakes with soccer in the past but has given players the benefit of the doubt if it is quesitonable. If the line is as bad as it seems, I don't see a reason for CRIS to pay winnings on money that wasn't risked.

[ChristopherMolt]

The only part where I feel Betcris has failed completely is when they confirm it is correct thousands of times (not reviewing it while players keep comming asking for the same thing), but specially when they say the odd is correct because they were balancing markets.
This is a lie. It was proved they were not.

A little offtopic:
As for Cris being still a top of the bookmakers, I dont really think so.
The layout for the odds seems like they were made in a spectrum.
Livechat operators have your passwords in their hand (security breach).
Payouts are not that fast.
You pay if you want payouts on other day than friday.

I can think of at least 20 sportsbooks that are better than CRIS.

I really cant understand why they are A+..

[Stumpage]

Personally, I've been with Cris for 5 or so years now, and they are much better than the vast majority of books out there, believe me. I know I'll always get paid, which is saying something in this day and age. I don't know why it's been stated a couple of times in this thread that they slow pay, as I often have my funds in a half-hour (Though I'm Canadian and can use Moneybookers, so that might have a lot to do with it.....)

As to this thread, it's no doubt frustrating to those involved and I would feel the same. But I learned a long time ago to stay far away from obviously bad lines, regardless of any assurances I get. It's just not worth it, especially in a scalping situation, which I'm guessing is the case here. If a line seems too good to be true, there's a simple reason for it...Because it bloody well is...

[RickySteve]

As told before, I once had a CRIS line manager argue with me for a ½ hour that France to win the World Cup was not correlated with them winning the final in regulation.

I still didn't bet it.

[RickySteve]

As for Cris being still a top of the bookmakers, I dont really think so.
The layout for the odds seems like they were made in a spectrum.
Livechat operators have your passwords in their hand (security breach).
Payouts are not that fast.
You pay if you want payouts on other day than friday.

I can think of at least 20 sportsbooks that are better than CRIS.

I really cant understand why they are A+..

All valid complaints, but CRIS is still a solid 'A' book. Get stiffed a few times, collared a few dozen times and/or do your own handicapping, and you'll find out why.

[jazzmonkey]

Havent had a problem with Cris before and am certain that my problem will be settled satisfactorily - either a void or a payout in my favour.

What I wasnt too impressed about was the stubbornness of the customer service - they had already admitted to me that other people had been in contact with them. Surely there were alarm bells ringing? An assurance that a bet will be voided should hold some kind of force too - dont make promises that you cannot keep.

[Bill Dozer]

Hi Jazzmonkey,
I have your screenshots and will review and discuss today. But, if your bad line bet went live that might be a valid loss.

CRIS went through and addressed all the bad line bets by the group and apparently missed yours at Bookmaker. Since you had a bet when the game went off it is a different situation and nothing suggests that, had the under came in, you wouldn't have a win.

[ilJuve]

There's one thing that's not clear to me on this case, with these players, and that is; If I recall correctly the half time result was 1-1, what ever the issue, I understand that they bet the UNDER 1.5 goals/ First Half, why do they insist the bets stand? What did I miss, I think I must have?

[jazzmonkey]

There were 2 lines:

under 3.5 & under 1.5 - both were incorrect.

I took under 3.5 goals for the first half - result at half time 1-1 my bet should have won, results after 90 minutes 3-2 my bet graded as a loser

[jazzmonkey]

Bill - after chatting with customer services today they are refusing to either payout or void the bet. I wasnt able to speak to the line manager again but this time have sent him an email personally.

They cannot possibly justify what they have done - the shots I have clearly show 1st half only and they have graded it over the full 90 minutes despite promises that they would not do.

This isnt the end of the matter but if they can be allowed to get away with this - ie change the form of a wager without notifying a client so that it benefits them, then it sets a very dangerous precedent.

Change one bet - why not change every bet so it is a loser?

[PantherClaws]

Have nothing against this bookie except that I truly dislike being asked for my password over a Live Chat with their operators, no matter how safe they say it is. If you work in IT or know something about security you'll probably agree with me. Hope they improve this issue in a near future.

[arnie_marta]

There's one thing that's not clear to me on this case, with these players, and that is; If I recall correctly the half time result was 1-1, what ever the issue, I understand that they bet the UNDER 1.5 goals/ First Half, why do they insist the bets stand? What did I miss, I think I must have?

We don't insist the bets stands...
We insist that it should never be voided...

These are two different things

[Bill Dozer]

Bill - after chatting with customer services today they are refusing to either payout or void the bet. I wasnt able to speak to the line manager again but this time have sent him an email personally.

They cannot possibly justify what they have done - the shots I have clearly show 1st half only and they have graded it over the full 90 minutes despite promises that they would not do.

This isnt the end of the matter but if they can be allowed to get away with this - ie change the form of a wager without notifying a client so that it benefits them, then it sets a very dangerous precedent.

Change one bet - why not change every bet so it is a loser?

I understand now what your dispute is...the interpretation of what the bet was actually on. I will shoot you email with any Qs about the screen shot.

Bill
830-515-4645

[Bill Dozer]

We don't insist the bets stands...
We insist that it should never be voided...

These are two different things

If you bet on the over for the game on a halftime total, and didn't get shown the door, I'd use that free $30 to send CRIS something from 1800-flowers.

[ilJuve]

ah, so I suppose everyone involved in the dispute bet the UNDER 3.5 / Half Time? Well I agree, that if you agreed to those terms and got repeated consent from their staff that that's what the bet was...I dont see how they could justify either voiding the bet or grading for Full time result. You have my sympathy and I will stay tunned to the end result, to consider keeping my account with them open, I surely would not like to be in a similar situation.

[arnie_marta]

If you bet on the over for the game on a halftime total, and didn't get shown the door, I'd use that free $30 to send CRIS something from 1800-flowers.

In my case I bet UNDER 1.5 at half time at a odd of 3.25....
If the bet staid, I would have loose the bet ON BETCRIS but that is not our purpose.

Our purpose is to tell all hour stories on a SUPPOSED A+ bookie.


As for the free $30 (freebet) I didn't accept it....
I don't need charity, The only think I wanted was that BETCRIS KEPT THEIR WORD.

[ilJuve]

Someone in this thread mentioned something about the LiveChat people saying the Line was what it was due to a significant amount being wagered on the other side, I wonder what the 'other' side has to say about this, those who wagered on the OVER...were there bets voided aswell and if so what if the UNDER dispute is a smoke screen for the OVER party...not suggesting anything just wondering about the other side?

[Finn locus]

I'm not a member at betcris, nevertheless I do not sign up anywhere if I do not know what I am getting myself into. So.. ofcourse I read the rules... i am just wondering if you did the same

[arnie_marta]

I'm not a member at betcris, nevertheless I do not sign up anywhere if I do not know what I am getting myself into. So.. ofcourse I read the rules... i am just wondering if you did the same

EVERY BOOKIE have the same stupid rules (legal or not) :

They can void bets and close accounts as they wish, simple as that.


The "how they use that power" is the discussion here...

[jazzmonkey]

arnie marta is correct - if you read the rules of every site and are put off by the voiding rule you would never join anywhere.