[todd73nj]

Hello everyone,

Just wanted to take a few minutes to post up my experience with matchbook over this past weekend during their system crash at the 65th minute of the Ghana/Serbia World Cup match.

Im sure many of you are familiar with the way matchbook works - I use the site in % mode and trade DURING the games. So for example, buying a positon at 50% is an even wager. Buying at 66% is -200

So here was my situation:

At the 60th minute of the game, I placed an order for approx $400 worth of DRAW at 52% (-108), At the 61st Minute of the game - I placed an order for approx $400 more of DRAW at 53% (-113). Both orders were filled and now I had $800 worth of DRAW to win approximately $750.

In the 62nd minute of the game, I placed 4 seperate orders to buy NO DRAW @40(+150), @35(+185), @30(+230), and @25(+300). So for those of you who dont know how matchbook works, As long as the match stays a draw - the price of No Draw will begin to decay. At that point I can buy a NO DRAW position to compliment my DRAW position to lock in a profit.

In the 65th minute of the game the site went down for me. I was still able to load the site - but when I entered my log in formation it was giving me an invalid password error. I tried three or four times and the same thing. The game was still at draw at this point approx 70 minutes in. I then called matchbook and the lady told me the site is fine there are no problems. She did not take my user ID or anything - and asked me to hold on. About 5 mins later - someone picked up the extension and hung it up as if they didnt want to talk to anyone. When I called back - I got the recording that you usually get when they are closed. It is now the 75th minute of the game - I checked the BetFair markets since my plays were still active since I was told there was no problem with the website - and I could see them listed but I couldnt log in. By the 80th minute of the game, I can tell by the BetFair prices that all my offers would have been accepted. And I should have now had a position for NO DRAW that guaranteed me a profit wether the match was a Draw or No Draw.

Right about the time of the goal in the 84th minute - Matchbook puts up a screen that markets will be reopening at 12:05 EST - and they were still not taking calls. At 12:05 they change the message to say reopening at 12:45 - And they are still not taking phone calls. During this time, from the 65th minute to the end of the game - I had emailed them 3 times - with no response.

I DO NOT feel that I should be paid the profit that I would have made because my prices would have been taken - But I believe that my two purchases of Draw at the 60th and 61st minute should be voided. They contend that if the game had ended up a draw that I would take a different stance. However I tried to explain to them - that if they review my history - everytime I buy a position during an event - I close it out prior to the event ending - hence the purpose of paying a commission on every trade - to be able to play it in running. Sometimes the positions go wrong and I lose money - and most of the time I take a small profit and get out. I risk a large amount of money to make a small amount of money - for a very short period of an event. I even suggested to them that they should void all trades that were made during the game (At the start of game time - they clear all the pre-game bids/offers - and then open the game up for live trading. They could have left pregame positions, but voided in game trades.)

The purpose of taking a position in game and paying commissions is to be able to trade it. Once I opened up my position, I had no opportunity to trade it - even though I attempted to by having offers out there for someone to take.

When you take the time to review thier rules - they have many of them in place:

"Matchbook reserves the right to void trades in the unlikely event of a system failure on Matchbook's side that prevents clients from managing their open offers." - I read this rule in that they may void a trade that has been made if the user is not able to manage their offers. And this is what I am asking for - voiding of my two trades made moments before THEIR system went down. I opened a position - and was unable to manage it due to THEIR system crashing. If my system had gone down it would be a completely different story.

They have basically said to me - Nothing we can do for you - tough luck. Its unfortunate bec I am a pretty large trader - and must easily generate for them $200-$300 a week in commissions when Im playing. Not only did they do nothing for me - but they charged commission all the trades.

What a classless company. Maybe thats why their rating here is dropping and there are so many other complaints about them.

Be careful - basically if you are trading games in-running - and they have a problem - in the end its the player that is left holding the bag.

I feel they need to make a change to their rules in the case where THEIR system crashes during events that are being traded live. But can anyone get them to even address that? We cant even get them to use .5's for even lines in live events so they dont end in pushes with all trades unwound.

I would like to thank Justin from SBR for the time he took to review and address my issues.

Thanks for taking the time to read this, and Id appreciate you rcomments and input.

Todd

[BROOKLYN BOY]

Not surprised. I've had issues with them myself and I'm sure they keep getting less and less reliable is because the people who make up that place are complete morons. They've cost me a few grand in questionable moves. One time a bet i had won simply vanished and they claimed that they had no record of the bet even though i was watching it for an hr on live betting and i know it was matched. Another time i tied up nearly 500 in an Angels/yanks game where i planned to buy back the next the next day on the opposing side. This was won of their service down all day times and naturally i couldnt get out of the early afternoon bet and it lost. No apology no credits no nothing. Aside from the low juice there is little to like there if you ask me.

[todd73nj]

None of that surprises me. And its always their system that goes down. And we get left holding the bag.

Recently in some live trading - they post OU lines for baseball games at 8.0 or 9.0 - so you figure thats the line - and place a wager. If you price make early you get a commission rebate so it makes sense and you get he best price. But them SOMETIMES they change the line to a .5 - and others they dont. So you could eng up not being able to trade the line youve already bet.

Awful job by them.

[bubba]

i personally have not been screwed by matchbook yet.but i do bet in game and just prior to games so it can happen to me too.

but your offer was accepted by another person. how would you feel if you were that person? and matchbook took away your winnings? what if he bet the other side at another book? not too fair to him.

bottom line- matchbook needs to improve 2 things first and foremost.

1-site reliabilty. site is down far too often. if their site was perfectly reliable (like thegreek which is almost always run super smooth) these problems wouldnt happen.

2-customer service. it should not be hard to get in contact with them. their live chat is slow and often nobody is there. i have called countless times during business hours to get that stupid message to call back during business hours.

they have so much potential. so sad. i love matchbook but they are severely flawed.

[todd73nj]

Bubba, I totally see your point. I know my trades were with their Market Marker who was moving the prices systematically.

But how can you advertise a live trading event - having people take positions that they may not have the opportunity to trade?? Possibly like I suggested to them - if they have a system crash during a LIVE event only - they should have a policy of voiding ALL in game trades.

But then again - Do their MMers work for them? If a MMer is taking a beating in an even - can they arrange this crash?

Makes me wonder - because up until this point there had not been an OVER in the WC games... And the prices of the under were so high and moved up everytime someone bet $100 on the UNDER. Maybe the MMer was taking a beating and they had to try to bail him out. There is no way to tell for sure.

[heyman]

I don’t understand the complaint. This is a long way of saying that matchbook is down too often, right?

"Matchbook reserves the right to void trades in the unlikely event of a system failure on Matchbook's side that prevents clients from managing their open offers." - I read this rule in that they may void a trade that has been made if the user is not able to manage their offers. And this is what I am asking for - voiding of my two trades made moments before THEIR system went down. I opened a position - and was unable to manage it due to THEIR system crashing. If my system had gone down it would be a completely different story.

OPEN offers. Matchbook’s policy is to honor the matched bets and cancel the unmatched bets. If I am understanding correctly, that is what they did in your case.

But I believe that my two purchases of Draw at the 60th and 61st minute should be voided.

Matchbook or any other book doesn’t owe you anything beyond guaranteeing the matched/accepted wagers are honored. There is no guarantee for anything in the future - that is why it is risked. You’re putting yourself out there, make good decisions.

In fact based on what you wrote, you were on the right side of the original wagers as it moved from approx. -110/-111 and later the other side would have been accepted for +150 to +300 at BetFair.

The best part of this is your implicit acknowledgement of Matchbook’s superiority. You could have balanced/hedged the original bets out at BetFair or another book but didn’t.

What a classless company. Maybe thats why their rating here is dropping and there are so many other complaints about them.

I really am confused. They honored their own policy which is written and displayed on the website clearly.



Again:

One time a bet i had won simply vanished and they claimed that they had no record of the bet even though i was watching it for an hr on live betting and i know it was matched.

Legitimate complain. This has never happened to me. I would be furious.

Another time i tied up nearly 500 in an Angels/yanks game where i planned to buy back the next the next day on the opposing side. This was won of their service down all day times and naturally i couldnt get out of the early afternoon bet and it lost. No apology no credits no nothing.

Not a legitimate complaint.

Aside from the low juice there is little to like there if you ask me.

Other than that, how’d you like the play Mrs. Lincoln? They pay and have the best prices…

Recently in some live trading - they post OU lines for baseball games at 8.0 or 9.0 - so you figure thats the line - and place a wager. If you price make early you get a commission rebate so it makes sense and you get he best price. But them SOMETIMES they change the line to a .5 - and others they dont. So you could eng up not being able to trade the line youve already bet.

??? Do you have this complaint with every other sportsbook? They all move the OU when something changes/there’s new information.

But yeah, I suspect this is to keep liquidity high especially since its for totals, you can’t have people betting on two different lines and people want totals close to even.

edit: didn't see the LIVE betting, that is frustrating.

But how can you advertise a live trading event - having people take positions that they may not have the opportunity to trade?? Possibly like I suggested to them - if they have a system crash during a LIVE event only - they should have a policy of voiding ALL in game trades.

You walk away from the computer after you matched a bet and come back and see it was canceled since their server/site went down an hour later? The cure is worse then the disease.

[scdavis0]

It sucks that the site went down later on in the game, but your suggested policy of voiding ALL live wagers if the site happens to go down at any point later in the game is ridiculous.

[AimingHigh]

Betfair takes the exact same view as Matchbook. They accept no liability for losses incurred due to site outages.

It made me much more wary about trading when I suffered a big loss on a tennis match for this reason. Of course, luck is meant to go both ways, but I've never had an outage save me from a bad bet. It's a tough break but goes with the territory of in-play betting. The only option is not to bet in-play, but if that's where your edge is, then you need to see it as a cost of doing business.

[LGBoots]

I have been caught out before when trading in-running on Betfair when there is a sudden outage.

To get round this I always make sure I have another exchange like Betdaq funded so I can get out of the trade

Feel sorry for you Todd as there is nothing more frustrating then when this situation occurs

[todd73nj]

LG - Wish I had another exchange that I could work with - but Im not allowed to have a BetDaq or BetFair account - and if I was - I wouldnt be waisting my time with matchbook at all. They are heading down the same road as WSEX. And dont feel sorry for me, here are my lines from that game - I was still profiting over $1000.:

Serbia v GhanaThree Way06/13/10 12:531,055.87-1,060.59Serbia v GhanaTotal06/13/10 12:534,421.122,149.46

SCDavis - Tradesports had voided all in game trades multiple times back when I used to trade there - so it is far from rediculous.

AimHigh - You are right about it making you warry of trading - I trade In game to TRADE my position - not hold it.

Heyman - Im not exactly sure where to start - seems you were just on the attack in your whole response. Lets see - I do understand matchbooks policies - but think they need to be changed. I guess you TRUST all the books you use? Im not sure I do. I cant tell you how many times I am beating the Market Maker at Matchbook - and then he disappears - but games where he is getting the best of me - he is there right to the end. Makes me wonder sometimes if outages are done deliberately. Up to that point - Unders in the WC were 9-0 I believe. Anytime he posted - he was hit. People were hitting Draw like crazy. There was tons of action in the game. Maybe they were protecting their own - who knows. And Im sorry I dont have Bet Fair - Im from the USA. And as far as Do I have the OU baseball complaint with every book - no. If you took a little time to think about it - youd realize - whats the sense of trading an ENTIRE game if its just going to get unwound? If you are placing a straight bet you know the line - and you key in your bet - and you are done. If its a live event - there is a MMer posting - there are enormous amounts of commissions being made for all the trades - then at the end - Unwind everything. Return all commissions. Please link me to some betfair events that use even #s for an even tthat has a market - Id like to see them. Its so easy to adjust the price in an event with a market when you add a .5.



Bottom line - Im not a $5 player. Im not into straight plays and watch the game - I want to trade it. For the $15,000 I generate a year in commissions I expect a service in return. I dont like the idea of knowing that I put $5000 into an inrunning even - and a power outage on their side could cost me all of it. But Im sure Heyman will find a way to justify it

[todd73nj]

Just an FYI - Just checked Betfair - ALL MLB games use a .5. Take a look at Matchbook. They like pushes.

[heyman]

I do understand matchbooks policies

Then why did you write:

I believe that my two purchases of Draw at the 60th and 61st minute should be voided.

I cant tell you how many times I am beating the Market Maker at Matchbook - and then he disappears - but games where he is getting the best of me - he is there right to the end. Makes me wonder sometimes if outages are done deliberately.

Sure…
What is the motive? The first two bets were for +EV and were honored. The UNMATCHED bets were canceled per policy. What are the market makers gaining? They had no liability for your canceled open offers.

So matchbook hurts itself in the short-term (commissions) and the long-term (site is seen as unstable/unsecure). On 6/13 there were four 1:05PM games, three 1:35PM, and two 2:10 MLB games. I wonder how much money they lost with people betting elsewhere with the server down. So this is all for probably an amount around $1,000 that I still cannot figure out how they stand to benefit.

And as far as Do I have the OU baseball complaint with every book - no. If you took a little time to think about it - youd realize - whats the sense of trading an ENTIRE game if its just going to get unwound?

Just an FYI - Just checked Betfair - ALL MLB games use a .5. Take a look at Matchbook. They like pushes.

I already said I see why this would be frustrating.

Bottom line - Im not a $5 player. Im not into straight plays and watch the game - I want to trade it. For the $15,000 I generate a year in commissions I expect a service in return.

Irrelevant. They don’t have a loyalty program that I’m aware of. They offer a transparent service/platform that you signed up for. No one put a gun to your head.

I dont like the idea of knowing that I put $5000 into an inrunning even - and a power outage on their side could cost me all of it. But Im sure Heyman will find a way to justify it

Perhaps you’re better suited for a more stable profession/hobby.



Look the point isn’t that Matchbook is perfect. No one is debating with you. If you had title this thread ‘frustrated with matchbook’ or ‘suggestions for matchbook’ I wouldn’t have a problem. But your not venting or suggesting. You titled this ‘matchbook dispute’. You stated you understand their rules yet want valid wagers voided. You communicated with matchbook directly asking for an exception. You called them classless. You made baseless accusations.

[Santo]

I have had these go both ways over the years; it does balance out, but doesn't help if you incur a huge loss (which it seems you didn't).

As for tradesports; when I used to play there they didn't void all in-play wagers.. I'm pretty sure they had the "any trade you make may be your last" proviso written right into their rules...

[todd73nj]

Santo - I dont remember you from the Tradesports pit.. were you playing there when I was? If you goto Midas Oracle you can find some info on some epic unwinds. They do exist.

Heyman - Not sure I care wether you have a problem with my thread or not - can clearly see what your about. As far as my professions or hobbies.. maybe you can teach me some new ones? You totally bore me.

[andywend]

Todd73NJ,
I remember you from the TradeSports forum and you were constantly complaining and criticizing TradeSports about a whole variety of issues for no logical reason and you are doing the EXACT SAME THING with Matchbook.

Apparently, you still haven't learned the lesson that "every live trade can be your last" in the event liquidity dries up or there is a system outage. Your request to have your previously matched World Cup bets voided (bets matched BEFORE the outage) is ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS.

"Matchbook reserves the right to void trades in the unlikely event of a system failure on Matchbook's side that prevents clients from managing their open offers." - I read this rule in that they may void a trade that has been made if the user is not able to manage their offers. And this is what I am asking for - voiding of my two trades made moments before THEIR system went down. I opened a position - and was unable to manage it due to THEIR system crashing. If my system had gone down it would be a completely different story.

Your interpretation of this rule is also ridiculous.

"Preventing clients from managing their OPEN offers" is defined as being unable to cancel UNMATCHED orders due to a system outage. Your interpretation of trying to extend this to previously matched orders before the system outage is comical. The key word of this rule is "OPEN".

SCDavis - Tradesports had voided all in game trades multiple times back when I used to trade there - so it is far from rediculous.

This statement is flat out untrue. TradeSports NEVER voided previously matched in game trades due to a system outage as long as those trades were matched before the outage occurred.

Todd, when you place a trade in an "in running event", you have to be prepared to live and die with that trade in the event liquidity dries up (i.e. market maker decides to stop making markets on that event) or if there is a system outage.

You were wrong when you bashed TradeSports for months on end and you are wrong once again in your criticisms of Matchbook as evidenced by the fact that not even one single poster responding in this thread agrees with you.

[heyman]

Heyman - Not sure I care wether you have a problem with my thread or not - can clearly see what your about. As far as my professions or hobbies.. maybe you can teach me some new ones? You totally bore me.

This is a public forum where people come for information. I'm pointing out your flawed reasoning and wild accusations which you have ignored/backtracked on. There is entirely too much noise and too little signal - starting with this thread.

when you place a trade in an "in running event", you have to be prepared to live and die with that trade in the event liquidity dries up (i.e. market maker decides to stop making markets on that event) or if there is a system outage.

Yes. Personal responsibility has declined in favor of entitlement.