1. #1
    HedgeHog
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    Low Vig Fukking Clients on Dead Heat Rule

    Do not make any bets at Low Vig that could possibly involve a dead heat, like golf. This past week, I had Hilligilde for top 20 in the Singapore tourney, betting $50 to win $112.50. He finished in a 6-way tie for 17th. Positions 17, 18, 19, 20, 21 and 22 are affected by this, so what's my return? Since four of the six spots (66.67%) are winners (17-20), I should get back 66.67% of the bet and potential winnings, namely $108.33 ($162.50 x .6667). Instead, they returned just $27.07 ($162.50/6) claiming that I'm only entitled to 1/6th, because it's a 6 way tie and I have only one of them. That's fukking insane! No other credible book does this, including their sister book Sportsbetting.ag who correctly computed a dead heat situation I was involved in the previous week--getting it right on the very first try!

    So AVOID Low Vig at all cost on bets that may involve a tie; they will definitely fukk you. "Low Vig" my azz, it's "Low Payout" as far as I'm concerned. Bettor beware!

  2. #2
    milwaukee mike
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    ugh you're right that should be 4/6th not 1/6th

    they are probably incompetent more than thieving in this case... i would think that they use the exact same grading as betonline/sbag

  3. #3
    Optional
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    Their posted rules support their grading.


    Dead Heat Rule

    • For golf wagers containing more than two participants (3 balls or groups) where two or more players tie for the same place the dead heat rule is applied as follows:
      The wager is reduced according to how many players tie and is then applied to the full odds with the remainder of the stake deemed as lost.
    • For example:
      • You wager $100 at odds of +200 and 2 players tie for the same position.
        Half the stake is lost -$50
        The other half wins and is paid the same odds. So $50 wins at +200
      • If 3 players tie for the same position then:
        Two thirds of the stake is lost -$66.66
        The remaining third $33.33 wins.




    https://www.lowvig.ag/help

  4. #4
    milwaukee mike
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optional View Post
    Their posted rules support their grading.


    Dead Heat Rule

    • For golf wagers containing more than two participants (3 balls or groups) where two or more players tie for the same place the dead heat rule is applied as follows:
      The wager is reduced according to how many players tie and is then applied to the full odds with the remainder of the stake deemed as lost.
    • For example:
      • You wager $100 at odds of +200 and 2 players tie for the same position.
        Half the stake is lost -$50
        The other half wins and is paid the same odds. So $50 wins at +200
      • If 3 players tie for the same position then:
        Two thirds of the stake is lost -$66.66
        The remaining third $33.33 wins.




    https://www.lowvig.ag/help
    but that would be on a tie for 20th, we are talking about a tie for 17th... let's say 19 guys tied for 2nd, would it be fair to only pay 1/19th of all of those wagers?

  5. #5
    Optional
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    Quote Originally Posted by milwaukee mike View Post

    but that would be on a tie for 20th, we are talking about a tie for 17th... let's say 19 guys tied for 2nd, would it be fair to only pay 1/19th of all of those wagers?
    I'm not sure about "fair" Mike. But that is exactly what the rules he bet under say would happen, don't you think?

  6. #6
    Optional
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    But on your point of fairness, if there are 20 paying positions, and 19 players tie for 2nd, surely it is fair to split any top 20 bets 19 ways isn't it?

    The same players would pay 1/19th for top 10 bets, and again for top 5 bets.

  7. #7
    milwaukee mike
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optional View Post
    But on your point of fairness, if there are 20 paying positions, and 19 players tie for 2nd, surely it is fair to split any top 20 bets 19 ways isn't it?

    The same players would pay 1/19th for top 10 bets, and again for top 5 bets.
    no, each one of them should get a full payout

    someone that bet $100 on a +100 for top 20... why would they be happy with getting $21 out of their $100 (losing $79) when they tied for 2nd?

    i think most dead heat rules say something similar to lowvig/bol, but that's not how they are usually graded, they are usually graded like hedgehog says. betonline uses the exact same wording and every time i've had a dead heat like that, they've given me 4/6th like they should

  8. #8
    HedgeHog
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optional View Post
    Their posted rules support their grading.


    Dead Heat Rule

    • For golf wagers containing more than two participants (3 balls or groups) where two or more players tie for the same place the dead heat rule is applied as follows:
      The wager is reduced according to how many players tie and is then applied to the full odds with the remainder of the stake deemed as lost.
    • For example:
      • You wager $100 at odds of +200 and 2 players tie for the same position.
        Half the stake is lost -$50
        The other half wins and is paid the same odds. So $50 wins at +200
      • If 3 players tie for the same position then:
        Two thirds of the stake is lost -$66.66
        The remaining third $33.33 wins.




    https://www.lowvig.ag/help
    That would apply if it were a 6-way tie for 20th but this is a 6-way tie for 17th, a different situation altogether. Admittedly the stated rules don't address this specifically. However, sister book Sportsbetting does understand how to grade this situation properly. Last week, I had a golfer finish in a 4-way tie for 19th. Since 2 of the 4 positions (19 &20) were winners they correctly gave me back 1/2 the wager and winnings.

    Same rules at both Books, but a different application by each. Without question, Sportsbetting has the fairer grading, and it's a basic standard by all major Books.
    Last edited by HedgeHog; 02-13-23 at 01:45 PM.

  9. #9
    Optional
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    Quote Originally Posted by milwaukee mike View Post
    no, each one of them should get a full payout

    someone that bet $100 on a +100 for top 20... why would they be happy with getting $21 out of their $100 (losing $79) when they tied for 2nd?

    i think most dead heat rules say something similar to lowvig/bol, but that's not how they are usually graded, they are usually graded like hedgehog says. betonline uses the exact same wording and every time i've had a dead heat like that, they've given me 4/6th like they should
    I have quoted the rules he bet under.

    I think they graded the bet by those rules.

    Do you disagree?


    Can you quote the rules from other books who do it the way you think they should be doing it?

  10. #10
    Optional
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    Quote Originally Posted by HedgeHog View Post
    That would apply if it were a 6-way tie for 20th but this is a 6-way tie for 17th, a different situation altogether. Admittedly the stated rules don't address this specifically. However, sister book Sportsbetting does understand how to grade this situation properly. Last week, I had a golfer finish in a 4-way tie for 19th. Since 2 of the 4 positions (19 &20) were winners they correctly gave me back 1/2 the wager and winnings.

    Same rules at both Books, but a different application by each. Without question, Sportsbetting has the fairer grading, and it's a basic standard by all major Books.
    I get your logic.

    But trying to find a logical argument for your position. I don't think we will find one in the face of that wording.


    But maybe you could ask Dave Mason via his Twitter account for an opinion. he is fair minded and wont just stick to wording if it's wrong headed.

  11. #11
    Optional
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  12. #12
    milwaukee mike
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optional View Post
    I have quoted the rules he bet under.

    I think they graded the bet by those rules.

    Do you disagree?


    Can you quote the rules from other books who do it the way you think they should be doing it?
    their rules aren't complete, i agree with you there... same as bookmaker... but they usually grade it correctly. here's draftkings who spells it out a lot better.


    1. A “dead heat reduction” involving a bet with more than one finishing position (e.g. Top 10) is calculated as follows:
      1. You bet $50 on a golfer to place in the Top 10 at +200 (3.0) odds.
      2. The event ends with the golfer tying for 8th place with 5 other golfers.
      3. 6 (tied participants) 3 (8th, 9th & 10th)) = 2.0
      4. 3.0 (original odds) 2.0 (new odds) = 1.5 (DHR odds)
      5. $50 x 1.5 = $75 payout


      1. Divide the number of participants who tied by the number of remaining finishing positions.
      2. Divide your original odds by the result of the calculation immediately above to find the new odds.
      3. Example (note: all calculations should use decimal odds):

  13. #13
    HedgeHog
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optional View Post
    Thank you!

  14. #14
    Optional
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    Quote Originally Posted by milwaukee mike View Post
    their rules aren't complete, i agree with you there... same as bookmaker... but they usually grade it correctly. here's draftkings who spells it out a lot better.


    1. A “dead heat reduction” involving a bet with more than one finishing position (e.g. Top 10) is calculated as follows:
      1. You bet $50 on a golfer to place in the Top 10 at +200 (3.0) odds.
      2. The event ends with the golfer tying for 8th place with 5 other golfers.
      3. 6 (tied participants) 3 (8th, 9th & 10th)) = 2.0
      4. 3.0 (original odds) 2.0 (new odds) = 1.5 (DHR odds)
      5. $50 x 1.5 = $75 payout


      1. Divide the number of participants who tied by the number of remaining finishing positions.
      2. Divide your original odds by the result of the calculation immediately above to find the new odds.
      3. Example (note: all calculations should use decimal odds):
    Thanks. That helps make it a lot clearer.

    I checked Bet365 and Unibet and their dead heat rules are as vague as LowVig. Sportsbet(au) spells it out similarly to Draftkings.



    Let us know how you go with Dave Hedgehog. PM me if you can't get on to him that way.

  15. #15
    HedgeHog
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optional View Post
    Thanks. That helps make it a lot clearer.

    I checked Bet365 and Unibet and their dead heat rules are as vague as LowVig. Sportsbet(au) spells it out similarly to Draftkings.



    Let us know how you go with Dave Hedgehog. PM me if you can't get on to him that way.
    I can't message him on twitter. PM being sent to you now. Appreciate any help you can provide.
    Points Awarded:

    Optional gave HedgeHog 2 Betpoint(s) for this post.


  16. #16
    Nate rasta
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    They always split the pot with ties on golf

  17. #17
    HedgeHog
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nate rasta View Post
    They always split the pot with ties on golf
    Of course! We're discussing how big a piece of the pie you are entitled to.

  18. #18
    milwaukee mike
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    for people that don't bet these regularly, it can be confusing... that's why i think the grading on this one is due to mere ignorance/incompetence

    i've had reps at all major books saying some truly baffling things about why bets were graded wrong... usually their go-to response is that it was graded right and they try to find a way to back into that with ambiguous rules, rather than just learn what the answer should be

  19. #19
    milwaukee mike
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    just last week i had book employees repeatedly claim that under 2.5 on mma loses once it gets into the 3rd round... took me about 2 hours and 3 separate chats before someone fixed it

  20. #20
    Barrakuda
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    How the fukk do people not know how dead heats work after working in the biz for 20 years?

  21. #21
    Barrakuda
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    Quote Originally Posted by HedgeHog View Post
    Do not make any bets at Low Vig that could possibly involve a dead heat, like golf. This past week, I had Hilligilde for top 20 in the Singapore tourney, betting $50 to win $112.50. He finished in a 6-way tie for 17th. Positions 17, 18, 19, 20, 21 and 22 are affected by this, so what's my return? Since four of the six spots (66.67%) are winners (17-20), I should get back 66.67% of the bet and potential winnings, namely $108.33 ($162.50 x .6667). Instead, they returned just $27.07 ($162.50/6) claiming that I'm only entitled to 1/6th, because it's a 6 way tie and I have only one of them. That's fukking insane! No other credible book does this, including their sister book Sportsbetting.ag who correctly computed a dead heat situation I was involved in the previous week--getting it right on the very first try!

    So AVOID Low Vig at all cost on bets that may involve a tie; they will definitely fukk you. "Low Vig" my azz, it's "Low Payout" as far as I'm concerned. Bettor beware!
    This is such bullshit. I have caught them in the past. Bottom line is you have to check each and every placement bet in golf, which blows when you are specifically only choosing to bet with solid books.

  22. #22
    jedihyoju
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    Quote Originally Posted by milwaukee mike View Post
    just last week i had book employees repeatedly claim that under 2.5 on mma loses once it gets into the 3rd round... took me about 2 hours and 3 separate chats before someone fixed it
    I once had to explain what double header is in baseball to fix the bet that I bet for the second game which they graded for the first game.

    Some employees they just don't know shiiiit

  23. #23
    HedgeHog
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    I am so disgusted with Low Vig, a supposed premier book that is fukkin clueless on how to properly calculate simple dead heat scenarios. Even worse, LV emails me that their decision is final, but then consoles me by sending an example on how the bet should've been graded. Ironically, it displays what I was saying the entire time. Mike was right, they are mainly incompetent, but it results in their clients being ripped off time and again. God knows how much they've shorted their clients over the years on dead heats. Stay the fuk away from LV on these type of bets.
    Last edited by HedgeHog; 02-16-23 at 06:36 PM.

  24. #24
    HedgeHog
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    Update: I was finally able to reach BOL's Dave Mason and he had Low Vig's "final decision" reversed. The bet has now been correctly graded.


    1678942349 Thursday, February 16, 2023 Wager Won $108.39

  25. #25
    milwaukee mike
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    good to hear that it got fixed... but still a horrible look that you have to waste all that time and effort to get them to do what was right
    Nomination(s):
    This post was nominated 2 times . To view the nominated thread please click here. People who nominated: HedgeHog, and JAKEPEAVY21

  26. #26
    HedgeHog
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optional View Post
    Thanks. That helps make it a lot clearer.

    I checked Bet365 and Unibet and their dead heat rules are as vague as LowVig. Sportsbet(au) spells it out similarly to Draftkings.



    Let us know how you go with Dave Hedgehog. PM me if you can't get on to him that way.
    Thank you so much for your advice via PM. Without it, I doubt this situation would have been resolved properly.

  27. #27
    darthvader777
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    Great news. Dave Mason and Adam Burns are stand up guys.

  28. #28
    Optional
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    Quote Originally Posted by HedgeHog View Post
    Update: I was finally able to reach BOL's Dave Mason and he had Low Vig's "final decision" reversed. The bet has now been correctly graded.


    1678942349 Thursday, February 16, 2023 Wager Won $108.39
    Good to see.

    Glad Dave Mason continues to be so helpful. BOL group would be a lot less than it is without him.

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