[RoyW]

Hi,


I would like to bring something to the attention, which I experienced with Sportmarket this week and I believe is important to bring up within the community.


I am a happy customer of Sportmarket for over 5 years now, and I believe they are one of the best brokers currently out there, especially with their service level.


After being inactive for some months, I decided to start trading again and put some of my Bitcoin this time instead of making a bank transfer.
For this to be possible, your sportmarket account will be made bitcoin only, making it only possible to deposit and withdraw using this coin (thus preventing any form of criminal activity from taking place).
There will be also an extra layer of KYC, sending in a different id as well as a different proof of residency document.


So far, so good. After being asked for sending in the documents, I sent them the following:
- my driver's license ID, by hiding sensitive information and placing a watermark over it with the current date and their name, using a special app (https://english.defensie.nl/topics/t...-safe-airports)
- a bank statement of an account that is active but currently not in use. Perfect for proof of residency without having to hide sensitive information.


Here's where the problems started. After a few emails back and forth, it turns out Sportmarket requires the following for their KYC bitcoin-only accounts, and I quote;
- ' an unaltered picture of the front side of your Driver's license' (in my case) meaning no watermark is allowed nor hiding sensitive information.
- Unaltered bank statement of your main bank account, meaning your full bank amount and all transactions will be visible to them.


Now, this is a serious RED FLAG here. By no law or jurisdiction, it is necessary to have a fully unaltered document of your ID to prove your identity. In fact, I believe Sportmarket is committing a serious violation of one's privacy by asking for such documents. Imagine what criminals would be capable of doing with this data. Knowing how much you have on the bank in combination with a fully unaltered copy of your ID is pretty much begging to become a victim of Identity theft.


Why you should always put a watermark over your ID;
- In case of a breach one day, you know where it came from and who to hold responsible
- You make it a lot more difficult for criminals to make use of the document for Identity theft. They will need to spend a lot of time editing the watermark out and this will most likely move them to an easier victim. Unless you attach a document stating your bank account has an amount of xxx thousand dollars on it...


Now, I am NOT implying that Sportmarket is monetizing this data in any way, but asking for such unaltered documents is highly suspicious and in no way necessary for proving one's identity/residency.
As for me, Bitcoin was just an easier option, so I nicely asked them to turn it back into a regular bank transfer account.


I would like to emphasize that I do not suspect Sportmarket of conducting any criminal activities and I still favor them among most other brokers out there, but to ask for such specific documents makes them not look good, to say the least.


I strongly recommend anyone to think twice before sending unaltered personal data that can be easily used for Identity theft, to a broker like Sportmarket.


Roy


EDIT; I did ask them to clarify this and share me the documents/link in which it states that they are obligated asking the documents to be unaltered. Sadly, they did not provide me with any other information than stating they follow rules and legislations given by the IOM GSC. I contacted them as well to ask for clarification, but they sent me an email with a link to file a complaint form first, which I will not do as it is not a real complaint and I am totally fine with not using bitcoin on their platform. I do believe, however, it is important to inform other users of this issue.

[lonnie55]

You shouldn't do online gambling if you're concerned about your data privacy.

[RoyW]

You shouldn't do online gambling if you're concerned about your data privacy.

Hi Lonnie, I would suggest you to refrain from replying when you don't have anything useful to add.
You sound like one of those people sending unaltered full copies of your ID to anyone that asks for it. Data privacy concerns any online activity in which verification is required. Online gambling is no different.

In fact, I only make use of companies doing kyc and keep everything as transparent as possible. I'm a huge advocate for it, as it makes them a lot more trustworthy if they follow rules and legislations.
I do however, always place a watermark on my copies. Especially with bookies/brokers as data breaches are much more likely compared to major corporations.

Apparently, you don't. Perhaps looking at your current bank's balance doesn't make you feel anxious becoming a victim of identity theft, I understand

[lonnie55]

You sound like one of those people sending unaltered full copies of your ID to anyone that asks for it.

Yes, I do. It's not like I would have a choice.

it makes them a lot more trustworthy if they follow rules and legislations.

You are talking about one of the dirtiest industries in the world. What tf do you expect??

Perhaps looking at your current bank's balance doesn't make you feel anxious becoming a victim of identity theft, I understand

I love you too, brother

[Alfie White]

Wait, you altered the ID and you complain it is not accepted?

Good luck trying to pass any automated verification tool. This one is completely on you, props to Sportmarket for pointing you towards sending a complaint and you didn't do so since you know you are in the wrong here.

Also, Ionnie has played on tens of bookmakers (even hundreds maybe) and if anyone, he surely has something proper to say here.

[LongBall52]

How much can someone wager in person on a Sunday NFL game at the largest sportsbooks in Nevada? Are they asked to present an ID for a certain amount ?
I KNOW in Delaware (Dover Downs Hotel and Casino) I was able to wager $1000, on a world series game with no ID? Yet online betting in other places $10 to $25 a game will trigger KYC.

[RoyW]

Holy shit. I feel like i am talking to some newbies here.
Do you send your ID like this:



Or like this:



Please don't tell me you guys send your ID as on the first image to every KYC procedure you did...


you can pass automated verification tools by placing a sticker on top of your security number and even other sensitive data without any problems.

I did my fair share of KYC, and I never got rejected for hiding sensitive information. As a matter of fact, doing otherwise is just REALLY REALLY dumb.

[LongBall52]

I'll be glad when sometime next year can bet in person at a local place . Yes I'll still play online, but NEVER for large amounts. One never knows what the tech experts might cook up for a problem down the road.

[RoyW]

Wait, you altered the ID and you complain it is not accepted?
Good luck trying to pass any automated verification tool.

Its not an automated one, I wish. I never had issues passing them.

This one is completely on you, props to Sportmarket for pointing you towards sending a complaint and you didn't do so since you know you are in the wrong here.

Wtf dude, completely on me? I'm in the wrong here? Im not trying to be in the right or wrong. This is not a complaint thats why I didnt file a complaint. Sportmarket didnt point me to it, the license holder did. You even read people's posts?

[Alfie White]

Well, obviously you are trying to start a smear campaign for them not wanting to accept altered documents. They said you should contact the regulator, you did and regulator told you to file a complaint. Since you say it yourself that you don't see this as a complaint - you understand that you don't have a case here since you did alter the documents that have been requested.

I am not trying to argue here, just stating the facts presented.

It can be that I am completely wrong here, but since you also say you are with them for more than 5 years and in that period they got Isle of Man license, that should encourage you to trust them as they must be doing something right if they have that license under their belt.

[Optional]

I'm not sure you will get anywhere Roy.

If they say they have to ask for this due to their regulations, and direct you to that regulator to verify what they say.

It's tough to be too critical of them.


And I'm surprised to hear that you have not run into this problem with other bookmakers before. maybe the break you mention taking was quite a long one and KYC procedures have moved on more than you realize?

[RoyW]

Shame on your Alfie White, really. I clearly stated they did not accept unaltered documents either. For penetrate sake, learn how to read. I don't make a case because it would not make a difference for me, as I have no problem with using bank transfers only. As I said, I did not alter the bank statement of the inactive account. I only used an app to obfuscate the sensitive information on the ID.I made this post to address the privacy concerns coming with such KYC procedures as the one Sportmarket requests without giving you the option to obfuscate sensitive information on your IDs making them extremely vulnerable to Identity theft.I simply address here the importance of not giving out IDs like that to avoid serious consequences. I promise you, it is a lot better to experience a bookie confiscating a couple of thousand bucks compared to having criminals stealing your identity.A company not accepting the second image of the post above is seriously violating the privacy of their customers and it has no right in doing so. For the sake of verifying one's identity, that 2nd image is totally valid and should be favored at all times.

I simply don't know if a company can request fully unaltered photo copies of IDs for KYC purposes or not. I do know however, that you put yourself at risk when sending such documents to someone. I did over 10 KYC procedures and never had any issues. In fact, I did it a few times with Sportmarket already withouth any issues either! Only due to the bad rep of bitcoin transactions, they obligate users to send IDs like on the 1st image. Its up to you whether or not you accept those terms, but for me this would never be an option.

I would not wish any of your ids would ever be part of a breach, but I guess that will be necessary in order for you to understand what I am talking about and why it would have been best to always cover sensitive information on your IDs

[Optional]

No one likes it Roy.

I guess we have just become used to it.

Wait until a bookmaker asks you for Source of Wealth proof. The ridiculous amount of private info they can demand, under direction of legal authorities, is well out of hand.


Be careful running up a balance big enough that you are not prepared to walk away from it if you are not prepared to hand over lots of personal info if challenged.

[RoyW]

I'm not sure you will get anywhere Roy.

I am not really trying to get anywhere with this when it comes to Sportmarket. I am not hoping to have a bitcoin account with them or anything. I am just stating the importance of not submitting such documents like that to bookies/brokers or any other companies. I am really surprised people on here dont even realize the possible consequences and never did any confuscation when sending them.

If they say they have to ask for this due to their regulations, and direct you to that regulator to verify what they say.
It's tough to be too critical of them.

Yes, and maybe they are indeed obligated in doing so. That would make them only more reliable as they follow their policies very strict. Its a pity they did not send me any documents providing more details.

Anyway. To me, this is the first time I have been obligated to send a full unaltered copy of an ID to a company for KYC. I am posting this to create awareness of the importance and risks that come with sending such documents when it will end up in the wrong hands someday.

Its up to you whether it is worth it or not. I would highly recommend anyone to think twice when a company insists in sending documents with all the sensitive data visible, solely for the purpose of verifying your identity.

And I'm surprised to hear that you have not run into this problem with other bookmakers before. maybe the break you mention taking was quite a long one and KYC procedures have moved on more than you realize?

I just took a break with them only, for about 3 months. Shouldnt be an issue.

[Alfie White]

Shame on your Alfie White, really. I clearly stated they did not accept unaltered documents either. For penetrate sake, learn how to read.

Let us read together, shall we then?

I don't make a case because it would not make a difference for me

So, you are being selfish here? As that complaint might pressure regulator to "explain" couple of things to them so you, and other players, can have more easy approach or receive reassurance from the regulator that all is good. Either is fine, wouldn't you agree?

As I said, I did not alter the bank statement of the inactive account.

So, you sent statement of the inactive bank account with hope it will be verified?


We can all agree here on the identity theft and risks internet has brought to us, but you are taking it too far for no real reason other than you doing it out of spite. Shame on me, really.

[RoyW]

@Alfie;
As a matter of fact, I should have indeed changed Sportmarket to 'company X'. It really doesn't matter, though I would have been asked the question where they asked for this.
Now it is Sportmarket, maybe tomorrow it is another one. The fact remains; DO NOT SEND FULL ID COPIES TO ANY COMPANY WITHOUT CONFUSCATING THE MOST SENSITIVE DATA.

How about I counter your questions with;

Explain to me, why a company needs your ID Number, or signature, and why it would be a problem when there is a watermark on top stating the date and company name? Give me an explanation, on why any company would reject if all they need is to verify your identity?

Instead, as a company, you should only be more than happy when a customer does this. It shows the customer has access to the full document (see watermark date) and it shows the customer cares about his/her privacy. (Someone using a fake ID certainly wouldnt mind)

[Alfie White]

It doesn't matter which is the company, you are altering the official documents and sending statement of inactive bank account and then you complain - you clearly don't see a flaw in that logic. The fact is that more and more companies are getting more demanding when it comes to KYC/AML stuff and that is not a secret (google AML5).

[Foxx]

Never heard of Sportmarket before. They have horse racing markets? Seems like maybe not looking at their webpage.

[jjgold]

Have to send exact documents and no issues

Anything else is considered fraud

Sportsmarket is big time

[RoyW]

It doesn't matter which is the company, you are altering the official documents and sending statement of inactive bank account and then you complain - you clearly don't see a flaw in that logic. The fact is that more and more companies are getting more demanding when it comes to KYC/AML stuff and that is not a secret (google AML5).

Oh come on, now you start to talk about AML when there is no fiat involved in a Bitcoin only account. This is getting painful, lets not argue anymore. Just keep sending out your full unaltered IDs, with your logic.

[DontTailMe]

Lonnie was 100% right.

You shouldn't do online gambling if you're concerned about your data privacy.

No one here loves giving their private data. We just know it's necessary and we take the calculated risk.

[RoyW]

Okay guys. I won't ever do that. This is the first time I have been asked to specifically not hide any sensitive data, and hopefully it will be the last time as well. Luckily, I can keep using Sportmarket using bank transfers without issues, as the KYC for that allows to hide the sensitive data and place a watermark over your ID.

For those who just blindly send their full ID. Please share your story if ever your ID got leaked in a breach and you are facing Identity theft.

With decentralized platforms coming all those issues thats been currently faced will be resolved anyways.

This thread can be locked. Let's leave it for reference so to teach newbies to not send your full ID with KYC, as it is not needed in 95% of the cases.

[DontTailMe]

Okay guys. I won't ever do that. This is the first time I have been asked to specifically not hide any sensitive data, and hopefully it will be the last time as well. Luckily, I can keep using Sportmarket using bank transfers without issues, as the KYC for that allows to hide the sensitive data and place a watermark over your ID.

For those who just blindly send there full ID. Please share your story if ever your ID got leaked in a breach and you are facing Identity theft.

With decentralized platforms coming all those issues thats been currently faced will be resolved anyways.

This thread can be locked. Let's leave it for reference so to teach newbies to not send your full ID with KYC, as it is not needed in 95% of the cases.

Everyone is aware of the risks. Thank you.

When there's a liquid decentralized platform which doesn't require me to invest in their proprietary shit coin, I'll be all over it (and even then I'll probably still play at traditional sportsbooks if there is money to be made). Until then, I'll continue betting wherever I can and keeping a freeze on my credit reports.

[Optional]

Oh come on, now you start to talk about AML when there is no fiat involved in a Bitcoin only account. This is getting painful, lets not argue anymore. Just keep sending out your full unaltered IDs, with your logic.

Are you now also saying AML rules do not apply to crypto deposits?

It's only getting painful for you due to being so wrong about ever single complaint you have.


But I bet you keep arguing more...

[Alfie White]

Okay guys. I won't ever do that. This is the first time I have been asked to specifically not hide any sensitive data, and hopefully it will be the last time as well. Luckily, I can keep using Sportmarket using bank transfers without issues, as the KYC for that allows to hide the sensitive data and place a watermark over your ID.

So they accepted 1 ID with watermark and now they are denying it? Is that what you are saying?

Are you now also saying AML rules do not apply to crypto deposits?
It's only getting painful for you due to being so wrong about ever single complaint you have.

But I bet you keep arguing more...

He is completely delusional. Crypto is 1000x more susceptible for fraudulent activities lol.

[RoyW]

But I bet you keep arguing more...

Ofcourse. I enjoy a good argument on a boring day. Especially with guys having logical minds like you.

It's only getting painful for you due to being so wrong about ever single complaint you have.

I am not having a complaint (I think this is the 5th time I have to mention this). I am simply informing the community to NEVER SEND YOUR FULL UNALTERED ID WITHOUT CONFUSCATING SENSITIVE DATA.

Please, dont! I'm already more than happy if I prevented 1 Identity theft victim by this post

So they accepted 1 ID with watermark and now they are denying it? Is that what you are saying?

Alfie, may I ask how old your are? I have never seen anyone with such reading comprehension level before on a forum. I suppose you are not a native english speaker either, that's why?

Here is what I said; ' I can keep using Sportmarket using bank transfers without issues, as the KYC for that(read;bank transfers) allows to hide the sensitive data and place a watermark over your ID.'

This means, you can just protect yourself like ALL the other KYC's I have ever done, and put a watermark + cover sensitive data on your ID.

Money laundering

Description

Money laundering is the process of changing large amounts of money obtained from crimes, such as drug trafficking, into origination from a legitimate source. It is a crime in many jurisdictions with varying definitions. It is a key operation of the underground economy. Wikipedia

Ahh thanks to you guys it all makes sense now... money Laundering can be done on a bitcoin only account with a broker. You put your bitcoin at the broker, from a specific bitcoin address. You play a bit, the broker places it back in the same bitcoin address and now it comes from a legitimate source and it's laundered. What a genius way of laundering your money. I did not understand this until now. I can see now why they do such strict KYC. Let's hope they catch those bad guys.

Thank you guys for teaching me.

[Alfie White]

You are hopeless, changing the narrative to suit your ludicrous, so called, arguments and avoiding direct questions.

Suit yourself, since you ask for the age you must be having a midlife crisis, but no knowledge to back it up and stay relevant.

[lonnie55]

This guy

How about if you keep chasing the owners of 1xbet instead of teaching the forum about KYC/AML processes?

If any of you has personal information leading to the people responsible for this, please send me a pm. I can make them stop stealing money from innocent people. Thank you

[RoyW]

This guy
How about if you keep chasing the owners of 1xbet instead of teaching the forum about KYC/AML processes?

Did you just search through my history hoping to find something to bash me with.. Yes you did...


Please everyone who reads this. Do NOT listen to those guys, you don't have to send your full unaltered ID to any company out there. I have used 5 bookies and 3 brokers thus far, all doing KYC. None of them made any issues during KYC when sending my document like this:




Protect yourself from identity theft. Especially in times we live now, this data is in high demands by criminals (i.e. using exchanges under your name for money laundering). Data breaches occur on a daily basis.
My work is related to this field. I might suck at my job, but I do know how devastating the effects can be.

DO NOT SEND UNALTERED COPIES OF YOUR ID TO ANY COMPANY OUT THERE.

Now Lock up the thread mods. Thanks

[lonnie55]

I have used 5 bookies and 3 brokers thus far

Please tell us more wise guy

[PD77]

Please tell us more wise guy

how many have you used Lonnie? Inquiring minds want to know. You’ve listed more books I’ve never heard of than I’ve heard of.

[lonnie55]

how many have you used Lonnie? Inquiring minds want to know. You’ve listed more books I’ve never heard of than I’ve heard of.

>500

[jjgold]

you can easily alter bank statement a few digits on the account info but you need right software and will pass any KYC unless they call banks but they do not

[Optional]

Ofcourse. I enjoy a good argument on a boring day. Especially with guys having logical minds like you.


I am not having a complaint (I think this is the 5th time I have to mention this). I am simply informing the community to NEVER SEND YOUR FULL UNALTERED ID WITHOUT CONFUSCATING SENSITIVE DATA.

Please, dont! I'm already more than happy if I prevented 1 Identity theft victim by this post



Alfie, may I ask how old your are? I have never seen anyone with such reading comprehension level before on a forum. I suppose you are not a native english speaker either, that's why?

Here is what I said; ' I can keep using Sportmarket using bank transfers without issues, as the KYC for that(read;bank transfers) allows to hide the sensitive data and place a watermark over your ID.'

This means, you can just protect yourself like ALL the other KYC's I have ever done, and put a watermark + cover sensitive data on your ID.



Ahh thanks to you guys it all makes sense now... money Laundering can be done on a bitcoin only account with a broker. You put your bitcoin at the broker, from a specific bitcoin address. You play a bit, the broker places it back in the same bitcoin address and now it comes from a legitimate source and it's laundered. What a genius way of laundering your money. I did not understand this until now. I can see now why they do such strict KYC. Let's hope they catch those bad guys.

Thank you guys for teaching me.

KYC these days includes SoF and SoW and Responsible Gambling guidelines.

You're right that not many books who accept crypto deposits do complete KYC, but the currency really does not affect the international agreement rules. You can't bank on using a BTC deposit meaning you will not get investigated.

And you may get away with editing your document images if a book has no reason to suspect anything of you, but you won't get to play at many books if you insist.



One last tip, people here are not dumb, or your children, who need to be told/warned that watermarking docs with who you sent them to makes for better security... that's kind of Captain Obvious sort of advice.

They were only trying to help You by explaining the actual reality to you.

I hope your recalcitrance does not cost you your balance at a book one day. Be careful before acting this way with a book's security dept is advice you should take away from this.

[RoyW]

KYC these days includes SoF and SoW and Responsible Gambling guidelines.

I can imagine when you are doing large deposits, yes. I never do large deposits. I start small (2k) and expand my bankroll slowly.
They don't need to do this when going from 2 to 50k.

You're right that not many books who accept crypto deposits do complete KYC, but the currency really does not affect the international agreement rules. You can't bank on using a BTC deposit meaning you will not get investigated.

Uhm.. I never said this. It's the opposite in my case. This strict KYC is actually due to crypto deposits at Sportmarket. I never do crypto elsewhere, nor have I have any issues with confuscating and watermarking my ID on KYC elsewhere (unibet/10bet/1xscam/bwin/BIA/SM/AC)

And you may get away with editing your document images if a book has no reason to suspect anything of you, but you won't get to play at many books if you insist.

I would be really glad if you could tell me why any company would not accept a watermark with the current date and hiding sensitive info, instead of just stating 'editing is not allowed' or stating I am stupid if I think it is.. Why you think all of them accept KYC that way? Just because you never did it that way (which is dumb to me) doesn't mean it is not widely accepted. They only need to verify your identity, they don't need to use this document for anything else. When you send out an unaltered copy like you all do, you are taking unneccessary risks, that should not been taken. That is the reality.

One last tip, people here are not dumb, or your children, who need to be told/warned that watermarking docs with who you sent them to makes for better security... that's kind of Captain Obvious sort of advice.

Lol, but nobody is doing it though. You don't. And the consensus here is that by doing so you won't get KYC verified, which is false.
Also, considering bitcoin only an opportunity to launder money isn't the smartest thing either....

They were only trying to help You by explaining the actual reality to you.

No, it is not the reality. But okay, if you say I got lucky with all those companies thus far, then so be it.

I hope your recalcitrance does not cost you your balance at a book one day. Be careful before acting this way with a book's security dept is advice you should take away from this.

I will never trade with a book before being KYC verified, if this is needed in their terms for large withdrawals. If they for whatever reason decide to ask for a new KYC and suddenly won't accept watermarks anymore, I would stop with them immediately and you will see a new post popping up around here

I hope you will take precautions from now on whenever you need to do a KYC. And I would suggest you to propagate this to users on your forum from now on, instead of bashing them, telling them any form of editing is not allowed and they are silly thinking they can.

Editing by changing some digits or letters is fraudulent yes, but placing a watermark is not. The sad thing is, that the first gets you KYC verified always, if you do it right, and the latter could cause an issue (at least at SM btc only KYC)