1. 02-06-20 05:41 PM #1
    Leritu
    Leritu's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 02-04-20
    Posts: 6
    Betpoints: 180

    Bookmaker.eu Prop Grading Dispute

    Hey everyone -- LONG-time forum lurker... but unfortunately have to make a post to get some second opinions.

    (I have filed a complaint with SBR -- but I am interested to get the broader forum's opinion)

    I have really enjoyed my time with Bookmaker.eu -- I have found them to, in general, be generous and inviting to players of all types. Their payouts have been impressive and the breadth of lines offered impressive. Unfortunately my experience is currently marred by a mis-grading of a Super Bowl prop that really doesn't make sense to me.

    The exact wording of the prop is "NFL - NFL Super Bowl LIV - Will Broadcast Show Any Members of the Military?"

    Bookmaker.eu has graded this as a loss -- even though the military was clearly showed during the coin toss (there were veterans brought out on to the field in a special celebration).

    Bookmaker's position is that "broadcast" should have been read as "after kickoff until the end of the game." The national anthem, the coin toss -- both major betting props -- were all happening prior to the actual kickoff of the football and are very much considered to be part of the broadcast. The NFL even starts off their broadcast with "Under no circumstances may this content be recorded, reproduced, or distributed in any way..." After that disclaimer... the national anthem happens and then the coin toss happens. The TV broadcast actually extends just after the game as well (the award ceremony).

    I am not worried about the winnings -- I would be fine to accept a "push" outcome with them. But I think it is unfair to say that "Broadcast" should be read as "After kickoff."

    Appreciate everyone's thoughts!
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote
  2. 02-06-20 05:53 PM #2
    BigOrange
    BigOrange's Avatar SBR PRO
    Join Date: 08-13-09
    Posts: 6,702
    Betpoints: 5441

    "The broadcast" starts as soon as they come on the air and until they go off the air.

    If they meant for the prop to mean "during the game" then they should have written it that way!
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote
  3. 02-06-20 06:04 PM #3
    newton0038
    Update your status
    newton0038's Avatar SBR PRO
    Join Date: 03-07-07
    Posts: 2,315
    Betpoints: 1947

    Bet taken as stated above with receipt #? Bet must be honored!
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote
  4. 02-06-20 08:16 PM #4
    vampire assassin
    vampire assassin's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 03-09-18
    Posts: 279
    Betpoints: 9908

    Is a Veteran a current member of the military? Were there any actives or reserves shown?
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote
  5. 02-06-20 08:28 PM #5
    Leritu
    Leritu's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 02-04-20
    Posts: 6
    Betpoints: 180

    Vampire -- Bookmaker.eu completely accepted that the people shown at the coin toss (veterans) count as military. They just said that they intended for "broadcast" to be read as "After kickoff until the end of the game." To me -- that isn't what broadcast means.

    Broadcast, at least to me, means from the start of the broadcast until the end of the broadcast.

    While the game was being played, there were no active/reserves prominently displayed on the screen.
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote
  6. 02-06-20 11:56 PM #6
    vampire assassin
    vampire assassin's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 03-09-18
    Posts: 279
    Betpoints: 9908

    I agree with what you think about broadcast. This should get escalated... But when it does, they might look at everything.
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote
  7. 02-07-20 03:38 AM #7
    Optional
    Optional's Avatar Moderator
    Join Date: 06-10-10
    Posts: 57,803
    Betpoints: 9204

    Quote Originally Posted by Leritu View Post
    Vampire -- Bookmaker.eu completely accepted that the people shown at the coin toss (veterans) count as military. They just said that they intended for "broadcast" to be read as "After kickoff until the end of the game." To me -- that isn't what broadcast means.

    Broadcast, at least to me, means from the start of the broadcast until the end of the broadcast.

    While the game was being played, there were no active/reserves prominently displayed on the screen.
    Really, they actually said that? Or are you just assuming that?

    I'd be surprised if they would count retired veterans as members of the military personally.

    But surely someone in uniform was shown at some stage?! I would have thought that was a lock pre-game.
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote
  8. 02-07-20 06:53 AM #8
    milwaukee mike
    milwaukee mike's Avatar SBR PRO
    Join Date: 08-22-07
    Posts: 26,906
    Betpoints: 7585

    at every book, the rules on those props were from kickoff to end of game, halftime break not included.

    it was pretty clearly listed at some places, not as clear at others... but bookmaker is right.

    these "will xxx be shown, or will xxx be said" have been that way for years at bookmaker/betonline/etc
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote
  9. 02-07-20 06:53 AM #9
    pologq
    When you are SBR you are SBR 4 Life
    pologq's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 10-07-12
    Posts: 19,849
    Betpoints: 5971

    broadcast to me counts as to when the tv portion of the super bowl starts at 6:30pm Eastern. if their rules did not clearly state that then you should win the bet.
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote
  10. 02-07-20 12:07 PM #10
    Leritu
    Leritu's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 02-04-20
    Posts: 6
    Betpoints: 180

    I appreciate everyone's feedback. I am interested to see where this goes -- like I said, I've had a great experience with Bookmaker for a long time... this one is just a tricky one that I hope will get resolved, at the very least, as a "no bet." I did speak with multiple supervisors... and for what it's worth, they said they are getting multiple complaints from other people that also bet this prop.

    @Optional -- They did say that the coin toss did qualify as military presence -- but that it didn't fall within the required definition of "broadcast" -- which, according to them, is after kickoff through the final snap.
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote
  11. 02-07-20 01:06 PM #11
    Leritu
    Leritu's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 02-04-20
    Posts: 6
    Betpoints: 180

    UPDATE!! JJ at Bookmaker just called me and totally took care of the entire situation. They explained Bookmaker's position but ultimately made it right. As I have said in each of my posts -- I've been a long time customer with Bookmaker and found this one issue to be an "exception" rather than the norm. They have always paid me quickly and offer a ton of lines... I think this was just a confusion that is now fixed.

    Thank you SBR Forum and Bookmaker.eu -- this is officially RESOLVED -- couldn't be happier with the outcome. Wouldn't do business with anyone else besides Bookmaker & SBR.

    Case closed! Happy camper.
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote
  12. 02-07-20 07:35 PM #12
    Optional
    Optional's Avatar Moderator
    Join Date: 06-10-10
    Posts: 57,803
    Betpoints: 9204

    Quote Originally Posted by Leritu View Post
    UPDATE!! JJ at Bookmaker just called me and totally took care of the entire situation. They explained Bookmaker's position but ultimately made it right. As I have said in each of my posts -- I've been a long time customer with Bookmaker and found this one issue to be an "exception" rather than the norm. They have always paid me quickly and offer a ton of lines... I think this was just a confusion that is now fixed.

    Thank you SBR Forum and Bookmaker.eu -- this is officially RESOLVED -- couldn't be happier with the outcome. Wouldn't do business with anyone else besides Bookmaker & SBR.

    Case closed! Happy camper.

    Good news
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote
  13. 02-07-20 08:00 PM #13
    DontTailMe
    DontTailMe's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 03-24-19
    Posts: 2,897
    Betpoints: 6810

    Good to hear that OP got paid out.

    But just to be clear, Bookmaker initially graded this wager correctly. All of their Super Bowl props had the following language attached: "NFL SUPER BOWL LIV SPECIAL PROPOSITIONS ** KICKOFF UNTIL FINAL, LIVE BROADCAST ONLY, HALF-TIME DOES NOT COUNT TOWARDS WAGER. **".

    So it's irrelevant what anyone here thinks "broadcast" should mean. Bookmaker defined it for us before anyone clicked the submit button.
    Last edited by DontTailMe; 02-07-20 at 08:05 PM.
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote
  14. 02-07-20 08:11 PM #14
    Optional
    Optional's Avatar Moderator
    Join Date: 06-10-10
    Posts: 57,803
    Betpoints: 9204

    Quote Originally Posted by DontTailMe View Post
    Good to hear that OP got paid out.

    But just to be clear, Bookmaker initially graded this wager correctly. All of their Super Bowl props had the following language attached: "NFL SUPER BOWL LIV SPECIAL PROPOSITIONS ** KICKOFF UNTIL FINAL, LIVE BROADCAST ONLY, HALF-TIME DOES NOT COUNT TOWARDS WAGER. **".

    So it's irrelevant what anyone here thinks "broadcast" should mean. Bookmaker defined it for us before anyone clicked the submit button.
    The OP claimed that all that was explained is what he posted.

    You seem to have exact wording there. Have a screenshot?
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote
  15. 02-08-20 08:00 AM #15
    milwaukee mike
    milwaukee mike's Avatar SBR PRO
    Join Date: 08-22-07
    Posts: 26,906
    Betpoints: 7585

    Quote Originally Posted by Optional View Post
    The OP claimed that all that was explained is what he posted.

    You seem to have exact wording there. Have a screenshot?
    pretty sure i read exactly what dont tail me said on all those bets. same thing at betonline and elsewhere.

    bookmaker classy as always and eats the loss just to make their customer happy
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote
  16. 02-08-20 08:56 PM #16
    DontTailMe
    DontTailMe's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 03-24-19
    Posts: 2,897
    Betpoints: 6810

    Quote Originally Posted by Optional View Post
    The OP claimed that all that was explained is what he posted.

    You seem to have exact wording there. Have a screenshot?
    No, I don't have a screen shot. But what I wrote above is a direct copy/paste of the text from their site, and I can 100% assure you that this verbiage was at the top of BOTH of their Super Bowl special prop pages and applied to all lines below. I placed a lot of Super Bowl wagers there, so I'm intimately familiar with all of their props and their corresponding conditions.

    OP simply overlooked that disclaimer when he placed his bet.

    Again, good to hear it didn't come back to bite him in the end.
    Last edited by DontTailMe; 02-08-20 at 08:59 PM.
    Nomination(s):
    This post was nominated 1 time . To view the nominated thread please click here. People who nominated: Optional
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote 1
  17. 02-09-20 01:08 AM #17
    Optional
    Optional's Avatar Moderator
    Join Date: 06-10-10
    Posts: 57,803
    Betpoints: 9204

    Thanks for explaining DTM
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote
  18. 02-09-20 09:52 AM #18
    pokerdevil
    pokerdevil's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 04-20-16
    Posts: 433
    Betpoints: 211

    What was the price on Yes for this prop? I feel like I saw it at -5000 somewhere
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote
  19. 02-09-20 09:38 PM #19
    PhoKing
    PhoKing's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 07-04-16
    Posts: 247
    Betpoints: 1356

    having the same issue right now. this book is mind blowingly dumb
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote
  20. 02-09-20 11:42 PM #20
    horja1
    Grrrrrr
    horja1's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 01-13-11
    Posts: 5,646
    Betpoints: 12

    Quote Originally Posted by PhoKing View Post
    having the same issue right now. this book is mind blowingly dumb
    Why?
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote
  21. 02-10-20 12:05 AM #21
    Optional
    Optional's Avatar Moderator
    Join Date: 06-10-10
    Posts: 57,803
    Betpoints: 9204

    Quote Originally Posted by PhoKing View Post
    having the same issue right now. this book is mind blowingly dumb
    The OP here turned out to be wrong. So I hope it's not the same issue.

    What was your bet and how did they grade it?
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote
  22. 02-10-20 02:10 AM #22
    frenchbettor
    frenchbettor's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 12-02-19
    Posts: 115
    Betpoints: 584

    wrong thread
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote
  23. 02-10-20 06:40 AM #23
    PhoKing
    PhoKing's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 07-04-16
    Posts: 247
    Betpoints: 1356

    Quote Originally Posted by Optional View Post
    The OP here turned out to be wrong. So I hope it's not the same issue.

    What was your bet and how did they grade it?
    MU - 92nd Academy Awards - Parasite To Win Film Editing [236180] No -115 (Yes vrs No)LOSE
    Score: Yes(1) - No(0)
    Game start 02/09/2020 10:00 PM

    Ford and Ferrari won best film editing but they graded as if parasite won.

    I spoke to customer service and they told me to check back in a couple mins. 30 mins went by and nothing happened so I talked to cs and the same person said the same exact thing "check back in a couple mins" and close the chat without letting me respond. VINCENT from CS should be fired for being useless. Not only did he not help with the grading issue it literally takes him 10 mins for him the respond to each question
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote
  24. 02-10-20 07:45 AM #24
    milwaukee mike
    milwaukee mike's Avatar SBR PRO
    Join Date: 08-22-07
    Posts: 26,906
    Betpoints: 7585

    Quote Originally Posted by PhoKing View Post
    MU - 92nd Academy Awards - Parasite To Win Film Editing [236180] No -115 (Yes vrs No)LOSE
    Score: Yes(1) - No(0)
    Game start 02/09/2020 10:00 PM

    Ford and Ferrari won best film editing but they graded as if parasite won.

    I spoke to customer service and they told me to check back in a couple mins. 30 mins went by and nothing happened so I talked to cs and the same person said the same exact thing "check back in a couple mins" and close the chat without letting me respond. VINCENT from CS should be fired for being useless. Not only did he not help with the grading issue it literally takes him 10 mins for him the respond to each question
    i just asked for this to be regraded this morning too... i had some bets on the NO as well
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote
  25. 02-10-20 10:52 AM #25
    milwaukee mike
    milwaukee mike's Avatar SBR PRO
    Join Date: 08-22-07
    Posts: 26,906
    Betpoints: 7585

    Quote Originally Posted by PhoKing View Post
    MU - 92nd Academy Awards - Parasite To Win Film Editing [236180] No -115 (Yes vrs No)LOSE
    Score: Yes(1) - No(0)
    Game start 02/09/2020 10:00 PM

    Ford and Ferrari won best film editing but they graded as if parasite won.

    I spoke to customer service and they told me to check back in a couple mins. 30 mins went by and nothing happened so I talked to cs and the same person said the same exact thing "check back in a couple mins" and close the chat without letting me respond. VINCENT from CS should be fired for being useless. Not only did he not help with the grading issue it literally takes him 10 mins for him the respond to each question
    they still haven't regraded mine which is pretty unusual for bookmaker, especially considering at least 2 of us have asked them to regrade it.
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote
  26. 02-10-20 01:40 PM #26
    PhoKing
    PhoKing's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 07-04-16
    Posts: 247
    Betpoints: 1356

    Quote Originally Posted by milwaukee mike View Post
    they still haven't regraded mine which is pretty unusual for bookmaker, especially considering at least 2 of us have asked them to regrade it.
    Still not resolved... how difficult is it to fix it? Jesus
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote
  27. 02-10-20 01:46 PM #27
    milwaukee mike
    milwaukee mike's Avatar SBR PRO
    Join Date: 08-22-07
    Posts: 26,906
    Betpoints: 7585

    Quote Originally Posted by PhoKing View Post
    Still not resolved... how difficult is it to fix it? Jesus
    mine was just done as a manual entry which is weird, usually they regrade it so the people on the other side don't win too

    bookmaker A+ as always, any time there is an issue it (eventually) gets fixed... i'm thinking maybe their customer service is swamped lately with website issues
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote
  28. 02-10-20 02:57 PM #28
    stackz125
    stackz125's Avatar SBR PRO
    Join Date: 01-03-16
    Posts: 6,097
    Betpoints: 412

    Quote Originally Posted by PhoKing View Post
    VINCENT from CS should be fired for being useless. Not only did he not help with the grading issue it literally takes him 10 mins for him the respond to each question

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote
  29. 02-10-20 04:33 PM #29
    PhoKing
    PhoKing's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 07-04-16
    Posts: 247
    Betpoints: 1356

    Quote Originally Posted by milwaukee mike View Post
    mine was just done as a manual entry which is weird, usually they regrade it so the people on the other side don't win too

    bookmaker A+ as always, any time there is an issue it (eventually) gets fixed... i'm thinking maybe their customer service is swamped lately with website issues
    Damn that's shady af.

    And yeah fuuuuck Vincent lmao
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote
  30. 02-10-20 05:53 PM #30
    Optional
    Optional's Avatar Moderator
    Join Date: 06-10-10
    Posts: 57,803
    Betpoints: 9204

    Quote Originally Posted by PhoKing View Post

    Damn that's shady af.
    I think Mike is saying they left the other side graded as a winner, as well as changing his bet to a winner. Not shady. Nice.


    Anyway, did your grading get fixed too?
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote
  31. 02-10-20 09:15 PM #31
    milwaukee mike
    milwaukee mike's Avatar SBR PRO
    Join Date: 08-22-07
    Posts: 26,906
    Betpoints: 7585

    Quote Originally Posted by Optional View Post
    I think Mike is saying they left the other side graded as a winner, as well as changing his bet to a winner. Not shady. Nice.


    Anyway, did your grading get fixed too?
    but why in the world would they leave the other side a winner? it was way less than 24 hours, and there was no gray area!

    i'm guessing because those props were manually graded for some reason and it would've been too much of a pain to change all of them?

    weird stuff lately there, one of the only golf bets i actually won was correctly graded as a win after the cut saturday, then on sunday afternoon it was taken back and showed up as open for about 6 hours, then graded as a win again
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote
Top
« Previous Thread | Sportsbooks & The Industry | Next Thread »