[Optional]

Will SBR make it right and extend time period to complete a joke rollover? Books shouldn't be allowed to do something like this, I said million times already, books should investigate an account before giving a bonus to them, do not say that is not feasible, because I call bs on that.

Saying it 1 million times or just sticking your fingers in your ears and calling BS is not going to make you correct.

Start a thread in Players Talk and ask other bettors if they like your idea or not about a pre-investigation for anyone wanting a bonus.

See if anyone else agrees with you.

Not sure what your logic is here, but I'd guess 95% of bettors would think you are crazy to ask for this.



And maybe you mistake SBR for a regulator or govt dept. We do not get to "extend time period" as we are not the book or the law.

Of course if an unfair bonus time period was imposed due to delays, SBR would argue that should addressed.

But we negotiate, we cant order anyone to do anything.

You seem to be acting like SBR is somehow responsible for any book problems and can order changes.

But we are just a private business and the only reason we can help players with problems so often when it seems like no one else can, is because books are willing to discuss things and work with us.

Forums like ours who act all aggressive and adversarial like you advocate SBR should be are no use to you when a problem comes up Grumsi

[Grumsi]

Saying it 1 million times or just sticking your fingers in your ears and calling BS is not going to make you correct.

Start a thread in Players Talk and ask other bettors if they like your idea or not about a pre-investigation for anyone wanting a bonus.

See if anyone else agrees with you.

Not sure what your logic is here, but I'd guess 95% of bettors would think you are crazy to ask for this.

After verification is completed, the bullying for selfies and bank statments and proof of income, and numerous photos of ID (all perfect quality), and screenshots of payment method, and on and on, SHOULD BE FINISHED before first bets are made! What majority think it is right, it doesn't mean they are right.

And you sound like that i am talking about an idea, are you kidding me, this is not an idea, it is a demand. Someone have to fight for our rights and someone have to push this industry in the right direction, i am tired of reading how people are getting scammed everyday by those criminals.

If book accept me as a customer after i send them everything they needed, I expect no bullying from them anymore. And if by any chance they do not want me as a customer anymore, they can boot me, after they pay everything i have on my balance.

But anyway, if my logic here is incorrect, I am open to listen to everyone. More I know, the better.

[Optional]

After verification is completed, the bullying for selfies and bank statments and proof of income, and numerous photos of ID (all perfect quality), and screenshots of payment method, and on and on, SHOULD BE FINISHED before first bets are made! What majority think it is right, it doesn't mean they are right.

And you sound like that i am talking about an idea, are you kidding me, this is not an idea, it is a demand. Someone have to fight for our rights and someone have to push this industry in the right direction, i am tired of reading how people are getting scammed everyday by those criminals.

If book accept me as a customer after i send them everything they needed, I expect no bullying from them anymore. And if by any chance they do not want me as a customer anymore, they can boot me, after they pay everything i have on my balance.

But anyway, if my logic here is incorrect, I am open to listen to everyone. More I know, the better.

PLEASE go start a players talk thread and ask for unbiased opinions about your demands for book procedure!!

There you will learn many opinions on why this is not workable logistically and is seen of ZERO benefit to players.

You don't have to believe me alone. Go ask. I'd doubt even one person will agree with you.

It's a terrible idea.

Think of something else to save the industry.

[Grumsi]

Once again, it is not an idea. I do not feel the need to open new thread, as I said before I am open to learn new things or in this case, opened to learn more what other players need. Also I am a bit confused why do you not speak up for 95% of players and just tell me how my logic is incorrect.

[Optional]

Once again, it is not an idea. I do not feel the need to open new thread, as I said before I am open to learn new things or in this case, opened to learn more what other players need. Also I am a bit confused why do you not speak up for 95% of players and just tell me how my logic is incorrect.

Well if you will not test your theory I think that proves you know you are wrong.

And I did tell you how your logic is bad.

Honest players do not want to wait to be investigated just to take a bonus.


Go ask them.

[Optional]

I've pared off these posts into a thread for your discussion and linked it to Players Talk.


Hopefully this will either help you understand why this is a bad idea, or show me I am out of touch

[Grumsi]

Well if you will not test your theory I think that proves you know you are wrong.

And I did tell you how your logic is bad.

Honest players do not want to wait to be investigated just to take a bonus.


Go ask them.

I see your point, but I have to show you that your are out of touch. You are right, that would be worse for 95% of players, because 95% of players do not complete the rollover anyway, so sure, you are correct about that.

But for 5% of winning players, that would bring security. It should bring security for other 95% of players too. And you messed up words "honest" and "losing"!

[ans61201]

After verification is completed, the bullying for selfies and bank statments and proof of income, and numerous photos of ID (all perfect quality), and screenshots of payment method, and on and on, SHOULD BE FINISHED before first bets are made! What majority think it is right, it doesn't mean they are right.

And you sound like that i am talking about an idea, are you kidding me, this is not an idea, it is a demand. Someone have to fight for our rights and someone have to push this industry in the right direction, i am tired of reading how people are getting scammed everyday by those criminals.

If book accept me as a customer after i send them everything they needed, I expect no bullying from them anymore. And if by any chance they do not want me as a customer anymore, they can boot me, after they pay everything i have on my balance.

But anyway, if my logic here is incorrect, I am open to listen to everyone. More I know, the better.

One point I agree with, which is why I love having accounts with my Nevada books. I verify myself up front, and the payout process is easy. Such a joke that online books will take money from you in a second (the CC your using could easily be fraudulent) but many will make you jump through hoops to get your first payment. They’re not verifying anything, most are just being slow hoping you lose it prior.

[Optional]

I see your point, but I have to show you that your are out of touch. You are right, that would be worse for 95% of players, because 95% of players do not complete the rollover anyway, so sure, you are correct about that.

But for 5% of winning players, that would bring security. It should bring security for other 95% of players too. And you messed up words "honest" and "losing"!

Maybe we will both learn something.


And seriously, there are a lot of bonus players here. Who knows if people tell the truth about winning or not, but many are still here doing the same thing as they were 10 years ago. Pretty sure these guys must be winners (or at least break even) to last that long.

[jjgold]

Yes

Multi accounts abuse is running rampant

[Wohlford]

If a book wants to pre-investigate the player fine.

If a book doesn't want to, then fine; but it should be bound by the terms in place when the last deposit was made until rollover is completed.

[HedgeHog]

Assuming, as has been asserted, that only 5% complete the RO; why would a Book want to investigate all 100% of its clients. It's not a good use of their resources. Also the Books risk losing new clients to competitors while they're doing their investigations. I just don't think it's practical or profitable for them to do this pre-qualifying process.

[Optional]

Assuming, as has been asserted, that only 5% complete the RO; why would a Book want to investigate all 100% of its clients. It's not a good use of their resources. Also the Books risk losing new clients to competitors while they're doing their investigations. I just don't think it's practical or profitable for them to do this pre-qualifying process.

I don't really think completion rate is that relevant to the issue.

But do you think only 5% complete bonus rollovers? Or anywhere near that low?

If only 5% of people completed them on average, they would be totally ineffective as a marketing tool by now.

[Mr. Teaser]

If that's the case then I have no problem with then verifying player information

Yes

Multi accounts abuse is running rampant

[ans61201]

I don't really think completion rate is that relevant to the issue.

But do you think only 5% complete bonus rollovers? Or anywhere near that low?

If only 5% of people completed them on average, they would be totally ineffective as a marketing tool by now.

Furthermore if only 5% completed they probably wouldn’t care if people created multi accounts as it would be a net positive ROI for them.


I think it would be pretty simple, write your info, upload piece of ID that matches that info upon sign up and any other hoops they want you to jump through after the fact. You can begin betting while your account is screened.

Using it as a method to stall that first payout is bad customer service.

[Optional]

Furthermore if only 5% completed they probably wouldn’t care if people created multi accounts as it would be a net positive ROI for them.


I think it would be pretty simple, write your info, upload piece of ID that matches that info upon sign up and any other hoops they want you to jump through after the fact. You can begin betting while your account is screened.

Using it as a method to stall that first payout is bad customer service.

What started Grumsi off about this is a guy who made 2 x 15k deposits into a book, plus took a bonus, and soon after they reduced his betting limits to $500 max.


Grumsi wants pre-screening of bonus users that comes with a guarantee limits must not be changed for the duration of rollover.

[ans61201]

What started Grumsi off about this is a guy who made 2 x 15k deposits into a book, plus took a bonus, and soon after they reduced his betting limits to $500 max.


Grumsi wants pre-screening of bonus users that comes with a guarantee limits must not be changed for the duration of rollover.

What was your issue with his wants? I’m not a fan of unreasonable limits when also telling someone they must meet a specific rollover.

Limits in general are asinine (imo) its one thing that I think should be regulated, every book should have a min/max wager that applies to all users. If you’re worried about someone sharp beating you, then lower that max for everyone.

[HedgeHog]

I don't really think completion rate is that relevant to the issue.

But do you think only 5% complete bonus rollovers? Or anywhere near that low?

If only 5% of people completed them on average, they would be totally ineffective as a marketing tool by now.

No, I think the RO completion rate is much higher, at least from my experience. But this is the figure that Gumsi asserted in post #7 when he said 95% of bettors don't complete their RO. If that were the case, why would a Book want to pre-investigate everyone if only 1 in 20 bettors will qualify for a withdrawal.

[Optional]

Yeah true. And like Ans pointed out, no way they would be putting so many impediments in the way of just 5% winners and risk killing he golden goose with 95% losers.

Anyway.


Would you prefer to wait to be investigated for a bonus if it meant your betting limits were guaranteed?


(not that I think books will ever do that, as they want to be able to limit based on your play style and can't see that before you bet)

[Grumsi]

No, I think the RO completion rate is much higher, at least from my experience. But this is the figure that Gumsi asserted in post #7 when he said 95% of bettors don't complete their RO. If that were the case, why would a Book want to pre-investigate everyone if only 1 in 20 bettors will qualify for a withdrawal.

Well, I am sure that if we take in account people from this forum only, % of RO completion would be higher. Because bettors who are using forums are more informed. The % of that kind of bettors is rising, but somehow I have a feeling that there are still much higher % of gamblers who mostly bet for fun and are in general just losing money for some thrill, and with them the percentage of RO completion is close to zero. It is also important under what kind of T&C they accepted the bonus.

But both, losing and winning, players are screwed if we allow books to "investigate" accounts anytime, because we all know when that time will be. Then just hope you didn't take a bonus where there was written "this bonus is just for recreational players", because if you completed RO you are most likely not just a recreational player anymore. And... poof! Money is gone.

[jjgold]

many people that take bonuses and have issues are mainly scammers multiple accounts

[Optional]

What was your issue with his wants? I’m not a fan of unreasonable limits when also telling someone they must meet a specific rollover.

Limits in general are asinine (imo) its one thing that I think should be regulated, every book should have a min/max wager that applies to all users. If you’re worried about someone sharp beating you, then lower that max for everyone.

I'm not either, of course.

And in principal agree it should be one offering for all customers, but looking at legal markets as they mature over the world, this is just never going to happen. There are places that enforce books must accept anyone to lose up to $1000 for example, but that just results in books refusing service all together instead of limiting.

My two main reasons why I thought Grumsi's plan was unworkable is that most players would object to waiting more than be worried about the limit issue, and that books want to limit based on play, which they cant see before you bet.

[HedgeHog]

Yeah true. And like Ans pointed out, no way they would be putting so many impediments in the way of just 5% winners and risk killing he golden goose with 95% losers.

Anyway.


Would you prefer to wait to be investigated for a bonus if it meant your betting limits were guaranteed?


(not that I think books will ever do that, as they want to be able to limit based on your play style and can't see that before you bet)

Depends on how long the process takes. One day, ok. One week, no way. Regardless I don't ever think it's right for a Book to slash limits during a RO, unless they're willing to slash the RO by a similar percentage. If the Book wants to cut my limits from $500 to $250, then my 20K rollover should be reduced to 10K. I get that Books need to reduce limits on some players to protect their bottom line. However, that needs to be weighed against the player's right to complete his rollover. Some form of compromise is required in this type of situation.

[semibluff]

Regulations often change. Books have to change their rules and procedures accordingly. Regulations regarding KYC are becoming ever stricter and just because a book verifies you today doesn't mean they won't be compelled to go through new verification hoops in the future. Offshore will be less regulated but more Wild West whereas onshore will become over-regulated but safer for most. Pick your poison.

[juicername]

Yeah true. And like Ans pointed out, no way they would be putting so many impediments in the way of just 5% winners and risk killing he golden goose with 95% losers.

Anyway.


Would you prefer to wait to be investigated for a bonus if it meant your betting limits were guaranteed?


(not that I think books will ever do that, as they want to be able to limit based on your play style and can't see that before you bet)

Spot on here.

[Grumsi]

If a bookie is sending me bonus offer first, or if a bookie is advertising a bonus offer on their site, and in their T&C is not written that they can limit me in the middle of RO, then they should stick with what I was offered. If later they figured out that I am too sharp and not profitable for them, then they can boot me (even that should not be allowed without compensation!), if they need to. But If I have to obey their T&C (in favour of book anyway), they should follow those conditions too.

So let say I am offered 50% up to 100 USD, and in the middle of RO my balance get up to 3.000 USD, but bookie do not like that I am too sharp and I am taking odds that can actually benefit me and not hurt me. Bookie should pay me the whole balance of 3.000 USD first, and after that we can talk about compensation if they want to boot me and not take my actions anymore. That is why I want them to investigate accounts before bonus is taken, so they can not freeroll us like they always do.

[HedgeHog]

Yes

Multi accounts abuse is running rampant

It's a problem at SBR too. Some posters have multiple accounts here as well. In fact one annoying poster is reported to have over a dozen ghost accounts he uses. I think we all agree that these azzholes should be banned.

[Barrakuda]

LOL that posters here are completing more ROs than the avg bettor.

There's a reason why SBR has made a fortune getting a cut of posters' losses in referred accounts..