[ultimavr12]

My intention of this post is to warn people about very unfair rule that Bet911 introduced a while ago. I'm trapped there with several thousand Euros in there since December.

Before I proceed with my story, I have to explain what this rule is saying. If you have an activity hold attached to your rollover, you have to bet as many days as your activity hold is. If it is 30 days, you must place the bets for 30 days, each day (at least) one bet. But the bet that count for activity hold is defined as average bet of all your placed bets. Now imagine you have 30 days hold, and you start betting for example with stakes of 700 Euros/Dollar/Pounds for the first 15 days. After that you decide to decrease your stake for whatever reason to 400 Euros for the following 15 days. Those last 15 days bets now won't count for activity hold at all, as they are below your average bet. Or another example, if your start with smaller stakes of 250 Euros/Dollar/Pounds for the first 15 days, and then later you decide to increase your stake to 500 and place remaining 15 bets with that stakes. All your 250 bets now suddenly don't count any more.


Somebody would say big deal, Bet911 now offer bonuses without hold period as well, and you have a choice to decide what bonus and what restrictions you take at your sign-up/or reload as they are all on their main site now. Ok, fair enough..... BUT what if you weren't aware of that rule, what if you have been misled by Bet911 at the time you took a bonus more than two months ago, when nobody knew that activity hold even exist, let alone average bet rule?


Here is my story.......


I registered an account with Bet911 on the beginning of December, as I have noticed their representative Robert advertising their sportbook on the forums. He mentioned in his post they offer a 30% bonus on first deposit that day. So I opened an account with them and went on live chat to claim the bonus. I deposited 475 Euros and received a 30% cash bonus of 143 Euros. The rollover was 9 times of deposit + bonus, and I have finished that rollover 3 weeks later. My balance at that time increased to over 6k Euros.


I made my first withdrawal request, but then all the problems started. My withdrawal request was refused with explanation that I haven't met the 30 days
activity hold condition. I was surprised as I have no idea what are they talking about, so I went on live chat, to talk with Robert about this. He searched for our live chat conversation record from December 4th, where I claimed the bonus and he pasted it. It turned out that at the time when I claimed the bonus, he mentioned a "30ADH" mark, but I probably thought this is a mark for the bonus I received, which was 30%. He should have explained to me what it actually means, as they never have activity hold rule before that. The first time he started to mention activity hold rule on the forums, was few days after. So I absolutely wasn't aware that this activity hold rule is actually attached to my rollover.


Because of that misunderstanding , Robert suggested he can decrease the activity hold to 21 days. I wasn't sure if this is a fair option regarding the fact they didn't tell me about this rule, so I asked him if he could simply deduct the bonus from my balance and let me withdraw the rest of the money without any further conditions. He said he could deduct the bonus, but that would forfeit all bonuses and winnings since the time of the bonus, and that would leave me with only my deposit to withdraw. I had no other choice then, but to accept the decreased 21 days of activity hold. I was told I already had 8 days from my finished rollover, so that would took me just another 13 days to finish all 21 days of activity.

I was just about to place my first of those 13 bets, but I realized I didn't ask him, if there is a minimum stake that count towards activity hold. I went on live chat again and there was Adriana I spoke to. I clearly asked her what is the minimum stake that count for the activity hold, and she told me that is 25 Euros. I made a print screen of this chat conversation just in case. I then simply started to place the minimum bets of 25 Euros for the following missing 13 days of activity hold, each day one bet. After last bet, I finally thought I have met all requirements, so I sent another withdrawal request email on January 10th.

But it was a real shock another day, when Julie from accounting arrogantly refused this withdrawal with the words: "Do me a favour and read the rules" and later with explanation that I haven't met average bet of activity hold as I have an average wager of 500 Euros and that I must wager at least 500 or more per day in order for the day to qualify as an activity day. I was so surprised that I couldn't believe it. I went to check all the rules on their site, only to found out that average bet rule is actually posted on their site, sneakingly hidden somewhere in the middle. But that does not change the fact, they never mentioned this average bet rule before. Adriana should have at least told me there are the rules somewhere on the site to take a look at them, instead of blindly telling me the minimum stake that count for activity hold is 25 Euros. Actually if Robert would have been fair, he could
have mentioned this rule when he decreased my activity hold to 21 days, but he said nothing about that.


I later sent an email to Robert and told him that neither him or Adriana didn't tell me about average bet activity rule and that I have been misled by Adriana on the live chat, that minimum bet that count for activity hold is 25 Euros. And I also told Robert, that because of all that, I'm back at the same point I was in December. Robert notified me with the solution that before I finish my activity hold, he would let me take withdrawals once per week of equivalent of maximum 1500 USD. I have asked him for confirmation if that means I'm not obligated to finish the activity hold to receive the withdrawals, and he confirmed that. I have sent then my first withdrawal request of 1000 Euros on January 18th, and have received it the same day. I was so happy I will finally get my money.

But when I made my second request, it was refused. I've been told by Robert that (his) interpretation of our agreement was that I should have placed bets anyway, for receiving the withdrawals once per week. I told him I completely misunderstood this, as I wrongly thought I don't need to make any further bets at all. And I reminded him that before I made my first withdrawal request, I asked him for a confirmation if I have understood everything correct.

But he then just simply decided that our agreement is not valid anymore, and even worse, he increased the activity hold back to 30 days. I found this very unfair, as he should have at least warned me that I have to place bets, when my second withdrawal request was refused. I would have gladly started to place bets if he would have told me clearly that I had to place bets as well. But he didn't mention any bets or any figures of average bets that I have to place for our agreement to stand. It would have been literally stupid from me, if I would have intentionally violated that kind of favorable agreement.


The position I'm in, is now even worse comparing to the one at the end of December, as I have to finish now all 30 days of activity. But there is one more
issue about average bet activity rule - they have changed the rules this month and the rules are now saying that if you place smaller bets comparing to the one you place normally, these smaller bets wont count for calculating the average bet, that counts for activity hold. So all 25 Euros bets I have placed in a good faith to finish my activity hold in Janury, dont count for figuring out the average bet, which should be around 200 Euros per original rules, and not 500 as Robert claims and insists.

At the time I've got a bonus in December and even in January when I placed my last bet with them, the average bet rule wasn't saying that smaller bets won't count for calculation of average bet. And the new changer rules cannot retrospectively apply for me. Here is the google cashed print screen of original rules from January 23th http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/1305/bet911tcs.gif


I haven't started betting for my activity hold as I don't know what to do, as they might simply change the rules again or make up something else to stop me. The most fair solution would be an agreement we had already with Robert, that I'm allowed to take withdrawals before I finish the activity hold, but he don't want to hear nothing about that any more.


I filled a complaint form two weeks ago and SBR team member Lou confirmed that he have received it and asked me to give him a few days to contact them. But later he informed me they won't budge on this matter.



What would you do guys, if you were in that kind of situation?

[Chopsticks]

I think it sucks. I like playing at Bet911 and I always take them up on their bonuses they offer.

As far as I can see almost all of the complaints about Bet911 are about this issue, so in my mind they should just remove their rules on "average bets" on activity day holds. I always make sure that the bonus I am taking does not have any activity hold on it. My average bet size is also well over $500, so a 30 day activity hold would mean that I have to wager $15.000+ over a 30 day period to clear the funds.

Another thing - if you take a freeplay bonus you should stay away from moneyline bets. Last time I read the rules they still had that rule saying that they will void any wagers where freeplay have been used on ml wagers.

I hope everything gets sorted for you. Robert has proved to be a fair guy a lot of the time so there is still some hope. You could already see that he tried to be fair when he reduced the number of activity days., and then later even made an exception so that you could withdraw part of your balance.

[HedgeHog]

Looks like the Bet911 bonus comes with a lot of baggage. Most places just require you to bet your deposit + bonus so many times to complete your rollover.

[vitalyo]

Looks like the Bet911 bonus comes with a lot of baggage. Most places just require you to bet your deposit + bonus so many times to complete your rollover.

With the rules like the one above You need a team of lawyers before you sign up . . This rules are probably are the most complicated that i have ever seen .
Oddsmaker can learn a lot from bet911. Clearly they were made to hold players funds for as long as they can .

[Mudcat]

That is a ridiculous rule.

[katstale]

Lets say you are stuck, so the question is what to do? Get funds into Match or Pinny double what you have there. Then look for one even or better arb per day for $500 wager they require. You might get lucky and suck out and not need a withdraw, but this will keep your funds safe. Use Pinny's dynamic lines and you should be able to get this arb a day done with minimal effort.

GL and obviously don't play there anymore.

[gman2114]

Avoid this site like the plague. Bonus are for players not against players.

[BigdaddyQH]

The way the entire industry is going, you will need a law firm on retainer once you give any book money, and try to collect after a big win. Stories like this are getting more and more common, not less.

[BigDaddy]

That is a ridiculous rule.

agree

what a joke of a rule.

you should have a x rollover and that should be plenty

what a mickey mouse book.

[vitalyo]

Lets say you are stuck, so the question is what to do? Get funds into Match or Pinny double what you have there. Then look for one even or better arb per day for $500 wager they require. You might get lucky and suck out and not need a withdraw, but this will keep your funds safe. Use Pinny's dynamic lines and you should be able to get this arb a day done with minimal effort.

GL and obviously don't play there anymore.

Hmm interesting
katstale I think you are wrong . Layoff your bet theory .That is exactly what bet911 wants you to do .

I deposited 475 Euros and received a 30% cash bonus of 143 Euros. The rollover was 9 times of deposit + bonus, and I have finished that rollover 3 weeks later. My balance at that time increased to over 6k Euros.

Players total after a bonus 618 euros .Lets say he lays off the bet with Pinny that is another 618 .Total money involved =1236. He wins @-110 with bet911 his total now 1174 euro . Right away he lost -62 euros on the juice . If he wins with Pinny .Bet911 is greened UP and all happy .

Ok so the player has 1174 with bet911 . Now he has 30 betting daysto complete 9 times roll over of 618 ,so that would be 5562 euros . He has to wager 185 euro per day at the odds lets assume -110 EVERY DAY WHETHER HE LIKES OR NOT . He has to find a bet . And if he is a 50% bettor at the end of 30 days he will be down around -350 euros . As it was mentioned above the player is also forced to bet every day,what would be his strike rate ????If his favorite sport or league is not available on daily bases . (we are all assuming it's all good because we bet NBA, CBK daily anyway )
The way i see it . This bonus was designed to scam you out of your $$$ .. The player ultimavr12 had a good winning run didn't lay off his bet or was unfortunate to win his lay with bet911. Ether way when he tried to get his money out .
911 said Not so fast we have a rule for people who wins .

GL.

[aggie]

this ADH was in place much earlier than OP claims

[Santo]

vitalyo: If you're getting -110 at Bet911, you should be looking to get +110 at Pinnacle, so you wouldn't lose the figures on juice you're stating.

BUT Bet911 isn't the type of book I'd be doing this at, because if all your funds end up there I'm not secure enough they could pay out.

[austin]

further downgrade to F???

[aggie]

further downgrade to F???

i don't see fault on 911's side. i'm sure it stinks if you're the player. but not knowing the rules dont' help

[austin]

i don't see fault on 911's side. i'm sure it stinks if you're the player. but not knowing the rules dont' help

but this kind of rules come from scam books. has anything like that been with A+ books? NO

[ultimavr12]

Thank you guys for constructive and supportive posts.

Many of you have especially valid point and I'm glad you realize what kind of nonsense and unfairness this average bet rule is from a customer point of view.

this ADH was in place much earlier than OP claims

Aggie, you missed my point and the fact that they didn't tell me about this rule. They could have had activity hold rule hidden somewhere on the site, but it doesn't make any difference as they haven't crearly brought it to my attention at the time when I took the bonus. Before I signed up, I was following Bet911 offers on the forums for weeks, and discussion of the customers and their experiences with Bet911 from a time when Carl have been working for them. When he left, Robert started to posting the Bet911 offers in November and after some 14 days of following his offers and users comments, I decided to give this bookie a go. The first time I noticed he mentioned the new bonus structure chart with activity hold rule on the forum, was a few days later when I received a bonus. So I had no idea that activity hold is actually attached to my rollover. And mentioning only "30ADH" mark (which I have probably confused for 30% bonus I received) in our first live chat conversation where I claimed the bonus, is not the same as clearly telling the customer that he must also fulfil the activity hold, beside the normal rollover. I he would have told me this, I would never take that kind of bonus.

Robert was fair enough and first decreased my activity hold to 21 days, and later after another lapsus from their representative Adriana, he even allowed me to take a withdrawal. But then when he suddenly canceled our agreement, I got the impression he was just waiting for one little mistake from my side, that he could have had the real reason for canceling all, and get me back to the point I was at the end of December.


As I already said, I'm not sure what exactly to do now. My customer rights have been already violated several times and Robert silently admitted them with our agreement solution. But if now even SBR can't help me on this matter to persuade Robert to change his mind, I'm afraid to place even a single bet with them, as I don't know what else could happen if I start betting again for the forced activity hold to finish it.

[Chopsticks]

If you took a 30% bonus (€143) on a €475 deposit with a 9xrollover that would turn out to be €5562 in action. However with the 30 day activity rule where you have to wager your average stake for it to count as one activity day, the op, averaging €500 stakes, would actually have to wager €18540 at the minimum, provided he did not wager more or less than the average on any of the 30 days. Already you can see that this is not a fair rule at all.

I can understand the activity hold, several books have that rule, including BetPhoenix. However they don't require you to bet your average stake, but only require you to wager €25 or €50 or something like that, which is fair enough. The rule is a good rule for a smaller book that wants to protect themselves from hit-and-run players coming in, depositing and taking a nice bonus, then cash out and have no intention of playing there again.

The hold and activity day rule has come and gone throughout their history. Carl wasn't a fan of the rule but to get big 30% bonuses you would normally have a 14/21 day hold period. Robert said that he liked holds.

From my records and various forum postings I can trace the average bet size rule back to the evening of january 5th. I doubt it was in place more than a couple of hours before that. Before that there was never any mention of average bet size when holds were discussed. You just had to stay active in those days. My guess is that Robert realized that people plowed through the rollover requirement at high stakes, then after finishing the requirement, a lot of the time before the hold period was over, then reduce the stakes to maybe $50 to stay active.

And I think that is only fair actually. Whenever I win I reduce my stakes to protect the balance as best I can. It would make no sense to risk more than you have to. That is what I would "normally wager". But that is not the point. If you opened your account in december, accepted a bonus with the terms (which you admittedly wasn't sure what was), plowed through the wr, but didn't finish the activity hold rule until january 10th (after having the days reduced), you shouldn't be affected by the average bet size rule.

It looks like Robert tried to be fair and work with you, but then for some reason it fell apart. For that he should get some credit, but for forcing rules that didn't exist when you took a deal makes no sense.

I am not sure which forum you followed the bet911 discussion in, but I am sure if you look in that forums bet911 thread on or around january 5th you will find the very first mention of the rule. I am also sure, depending on which forum you came from, that someone has a screenshot of the terms from back in december.

[Mr.]

thanks for posting this, I almost deposited 2k there today!

[Chopsticks]

thanks for posting this, I almost deposited 2k there today!

It shouldn't be a problem if you don't take a bonus without hold, or take a bonus with a hold and your average stake isn't more than maybe $100. But I guess if you were planning on depositing $2000 then your average stake is high, and you would be at a huge disadvantage.

In my experience Robert will give you a good deal if you e-mail him. Just make sure you let him know that you don't want any of that activity day c***. And be careful and not wager on moneylines if you take a freeplay bonus.

[austin]

It shouldn't be a problem if you don't take a bonus without hold, or take a bonus with a hold and your average stake isn't more than maybe $100. But I guess if you were planning on depositing $2000 then your average stake is high, and you would be at a huge disadvantage.

In my experience Robert will give you a good deal if you e-mail him. Just make sure you let him know that you don't want any of that activity day c***. And be careful and not wager on moneylines if you take a freeplay bonus.

here's even better advice: do not use this scam book, but rather go for a safer A+

[Bet911 Robert]

ok let me see if I can make it simpler for you all. I will change in the site later. A persons average bet for an activity day to count will be 10% of what ever their deposit and bonus added together is. Now that is very simple or not.

[SBR Lou]

SBR has asked that Bet911 more clearly define what constitutes an 'activity day wager'. View Bet911 bonus complaints.

[ultimavr12]

Excellent post Chopsticks, you added many things I forgot to stress out about average bet rule.

And thank you for a suggestion about print screen of Terms and Conditions back from December. I was following Bet911 offers on MSE forum, and will ask their forum members if anyone could forward me a December's T&Cs print screen.

[austin]

ok let me see if I can make it simpler for you all. I will change in the site later. A persons average bet for an activity day to count will be 10% of what ever their deposit and bonus added together is. Now that is very simple or not.

is this new rule for EVERYONE or just for those who bother to file a complaint?

[dark star]

At this rate Bet 911 will get very few new customers.

PS Robert stop playing these games & changing rules you might
gain a nice client base.Pissing people off doesn't work

[Bet911 Robert]

OK now I need everyones help on sprading this news around. Cause it is for the benefit of all players. Bet911 will no longer have an ACTIVITY DAY HOLD. in fact bet911 will no longer have a hold on any bonus offered on our website. For those players looking for higher % bonus than what is on the site you would need to get ahold of robert or mark and just so you know there might be a regular day hold on higher bonuses.

[bluefish]

odd rule

[BigDaddy]

go promote your own book yourself

nobody wants to promote your shit book.

[ultimavr12]

Hi Robert

How is this change of anulling the activity hold going to reflect in my case?

Do I still need to met average bet requirement, or I'm free to withdraw my money without any further restrictions?

OK now I need everyones help on sprading this news around. Cause it is for the benefit of all players. Bet911 will no longer have an ACTIVITY DAY HOLD. in fact bet911 will no longer have a hold on any bonus offered on our website.

[Bet911 Robert]

Hi Robert

How is this change of anulling the activity hold going to reflect in my case?

Do I still need to met average bet requirement, or I'm free to withdraw my money without any further restrictions?

I would need to know your account number for that

[Jaug]

If you took a 30% bonus (€143) on a €475 deposit with a 9xrollover that would turn out to be €5562 in action. However with the 30 day activity rule where you have to wager your average stake for it to count as one activity day, the op, averaging €500 stakes, would actually have to wager €18540 at the minimum, provided he did not wager more or less than the average on any of the 30 days.

This is absolutely terrible, as well as the way they handled the matter. I hope that you will find a solution ultimavr and I think the above as well as changing rules on the fly motivates a D- or F.

[dark star]

Bet 911 loves to change rules on the fly

[austin]

OK now I need everyones help on sprading this news around. Cause it is for the benefit of all players. Bet911 will no longer have an ACTIVITY DAY HOLD. in fact bet911 will no longer have a hold on any bonus offered on our website. For those players looking for higher % bonus than what is on the site you would need to get ahold of robert or mark and just so you know there might be a regular day hold on higher bonuses.

and do remember to quote the code word: 'VICTORY is GOLD', otherwise no bonus and half a year activity hold (non-standard one)

[ultimavr12]

An update for my situation;


Two days ago I went on live chat to talk with Robert how this anulling of the activity hold is going to reflect in my case. But he insisted I must finish all 22 remaining days of activity hold per old dodgy average bet rule, that is placing bets of at least 467 Euros for missing 22 days.


He now also claims that the average bet rule was on their site since November 12. That was the date when Carl told on the forum he got fired. I registered on December 4th.



Chopsticks mentioned in his post above, that first time he noticed the average bet rule posted by Robert on the forums, was on January 5th.


I registered on the TheGamblingtimes.com forum yesterday, and have found Robert's post from January 5th. Here is the print screen of his post (scroll down to his post #380, I marked the first time mentioned average bet rule with yellow arrow);

http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/6568/0501t.gif


I also found Robert's update post of rules and bonuses from November 13th, and there is no word even about normal activity hold (which was first time mentioned by him early in December), let alone average bet rule. Print screen of this post;

http://img693.imageshack.us/img693/9274/1311.gif



The big question is now why Robert first time posted average bet rule only on January 5th, if it was on the site since November 12th as he claims now. And why in all this time nobody even noticed it or got caught on it, except me - on January 10th they refused my payout with the reason that I haven't met average bet condition . I was so upset that day and didn't think even in my dreams that the average bet rule could have been introduced only 5 days before, as I was convinced that Adriana mistakenly told me about minimum bet of 25 Euros on December 29th. First time I started to doubt about that, was last week when Chopsticks mentioned this famous January 5th. And it makes sense now why she didn't point out average bet rule in our conversation, because you cannot tell something what doesn't exist yet.



To bad I didn't sign up 3 weeks before I did, when Carl still worked for them, as I'm sure I wouldn't be writing this issues here.

[Bet911 Robert]

He now also claims that the average bet rule was on their site since November 12. That was the date when Carl told on the forum he got fired. I registered on December 4th.



Chopsticks mentioned in his post above, that first time he noticed the average bet rule posted by Robert on the forums, was on January 5th.

I am only going to respond to this one time and one time only. The reason that this came about at this date and time is cause most clients that had a Activity day hold was for 30-60 days and when they got ready to take a payout it was in January. That is why noone complained about it before that. But since the issue of activity day hold cause such a stir and really was not clear when it was first put into effect as stated by SBR I have taken the activity day hold off and therefore making it alot easier. If you will look in the site under bonus you will see what the normal person is able to get with 1.5X rollover for every 5% cash and 1X rollover for 5% free play. max bonus is 500 cash and 1000 free play up to a max % bonus of 35% cash and 70% free play. Of course I will make exceptions and give out more than that in either case if you take more than what is on the website there will be a normal day hold on those %'s.