[luctens]

Fairlay.com has odds EXACTLY the same as Pinnacle. They change with Pinnacle in a matter of seconds! Who needs Pinnacle when you can have Fairlay.com!

I guess you're only saying this because you're American and you have no choice otherwise I'm sure you'd use Pinnacle. That business model if you are right of them copying Pinnacle's lines is doomed to fail.

Pinnacle can only make a go of it at the odds they offer because they have massive volume, the sharpest players and the sharpest odds compilers. In most situations if Fairlay are simply copying Pinnacle then they may have taken $500 on that selection whilst Pinnacle may have taken $25,000 in order to change the line but Fairlay will still move the line if Pinnacle does. Fairlay won't have anywhere near the volume and the type of players to balance their book accordingly offering Pinnacle's odds. If it was that easy why don't you think everybody is opening up a sportsbook, hooking their site to Pinnacle's odds and watching the money come in? And that doesn't even take into account they are subject to Bitcoin volatilities as well.

The other Bitcoin sportsbooks I've heard of seem to pretty much all have similar lines to Pinnacle but increase the juice which would give them some breathing room. Simply copying Pinnacle's lines is downright crazy. This "business model" that a 4 year old could have thought up will sooner or later go up in flames.

[barnstorm]

I guess you're only saying this because you're American and you have no choice otherwise I'm sure you'd use Pinnacle. That business model if you are right of them copying Pinnacle's lines is doomed to fail.

Pinnacle can only make a go of it at the odds they offer because they have massive volume, the sharpest players and the sharpest odds compilers. In most situations if Fairlay are simply copying Pinnacle then they may have taken $500 on that selection whilst Pinnacle may have taken $25,000 in order to change the line but Fairlay will still move the line if Pinnacle does. Fairlay won't have anywhere near the volume and the type of players to balance their book accordingly offering Pinnacle's odds. If it was that easy why don't you think everybody is opening up a sportsbook, hooking their site to Pinnacle's odds and watching the money come in? And that doesn't even take into account they are subject to Bitcoin volatilities as well.

The other Bitcoin sportsbooks I've heard of seem to pretty much all have similar lines to Pinnacle but increase the juice which would give them some breathing room. Simply copying Pinnacle's lines is downright crazy. This "business model" that a 4 year old could have thought up will sooner or later go up in flames.

I hear you and yes I am American, but Fairlay has been able to continue to post the exact same odds as Pinnacle. Granted, they have no where near the volume, but maybe they can squeeze out a profit and hope word gets around. I'm just happy to have access to Pinnacle odds. And yes, you are right, there are other Bitcoin books that are close to Pinnacle, but give themselves a few extra points on each side. And yes, Bitcoin ups and downs can really affect your bottom line. It has been a nice rise from $350 to $660 the last couple of months. But that could be reversed. Or go higher.

[evo34]

Fairlay is much tighter than Pinnacle close to game time. LAD/Ari tonight:

https://i.gyazo.com/ba04f8c8849a459253cab437d12f7a7f.png

[luctens]

Fairlay is much tighter than Pinnacle close to game time. LAD/Ari tonight:

https://i.gyazo.com/ba04f8c8849a459253cab437d12f7a7f.png

If they're even better margins than Pinnacle then that's even worse. Pinnacle's whole business is about attracting the serious bettors and to do that, they offer margins as low as they possibly can in order to attract that custom but still to do so on a viable, long term basis where they can still make good money even at a very low profit margin.

Therefore, if I ever see a bookmaker offering better margins than Pinnacle, I am extremely sceptical as if it was long term viable to offer lower margins on a particular sport or league, then I would expect Pinnacle to have already sharpened their lines.

Put it this way, if it was really viable on a long term basis for Fairlay to copy Pinnacle's lines but to even decrease the juice, then I'm sure Pinnacle would already be offering this reduced margin themselves but the fact they aren't doing this is a massive indicator that they don't believe that offering any lower margin than they currently do is viable, and I would much rather trust Pinnacle's view on odds compiling than Fairlay.

If I ever see a brand new outfit that have their own odds compilers and a completely fresh operation whilst offering better margins than Pinnacle because their odds compilers feel like they have seen some angles than Pinnacle hasn't, then I will give them the time of day.

But that's not the case here. This is just a company that is copying Pinnacle's odds and even lowering Pinnacle's juice in some instances, and that will never work on a long term basis.

[evo34]

If they're even better margins than Pinnacle then that's even worse. Pinnacle's whole business is about attracting the serious bettors and to do that, they offer margins as low as they possibly can in order to attract that custom but still to do so on a viable, long term basis where they can still make good money even at a very low profit margin.

Therefore, if I ever see a bookmaker offering better margins than Pinnacle, I am extremely sceptical as if it was long term viable to offer lower margins on a particular sport or league, then I would expect Pinnacle to have already sharpened their lines.

Put it this way, if it was really viable on a long term basis for Fairlay to copy Pinnacle's lines but to even decrease the juice, then I'm sure Pinnacle would already be offering this reduced margin themselves but the fact they aren't doing this is a massive indicator that they don't believe that offering any lower margin than they currently do is viable, and I would much rather trust Pinnacle's view on odds compiling than Fairlay.

If I ever see a brand new outfit that have their own odds compilers and a completely fresh operation whilst offering better margins than Pinnacle because their odds compilers feel like they have seen some angles than Pinnacle hasn't, then I will give them the time of day.

But that's not the case here. This is just a company that is copying Pinnacle's odds and even lowering Pinnacle's juice in some instances, and that will never work on a long term basis.

So no one will ever have tighter markets than Pinnacle and survive? There is such a thing as market depth.

BTW, they (more likely, their external market makers) are not precisely copying Pinnacle lines when it is close to game time. But you would already know that had you bothered to take a look for yourself.

[luctens]

So no one will ever have tighter markets than Pinnacle and survive? There is such a thing as market depth.

BTW, they (more likely, their external market makers) are not precisely copying Pinnacle lines when it is close to game time. But you would already know that had you bothered to take a look for yourself.

Pinnacle have the sharpest odds compilers and bettors in the business so they consistently have the lowest possible margins that are long term viable so a company won't be able to succeed in consistently offering better margins than Pinnacle.

Not one sportsbook past or present has succeeded on a long term basis by consistently offering better margins than Pinnacle. Either sportsbooks have been clever enough to not even go there, or if any have tried they have failed so that tells you all you need to know.

[evo34]

"Pinnacle have the sharpest odds compilers and bettors in the business so they consistently have the lowest possible margins that are long term viable so a company won't be able to succeed in consistently offering better margins than Pinnacle."

...said every single company who once led an industry. I have zero interest in what some guy named 'luctens' thinks of the future of bookmaking. If you have relevant info. to share (like I did), please do so. If you are here merely to state an opinion (dude), there is no need to say the same thing over and over again. Really, there isn't.

[luctens]

"Pinnacle have the sharpest odds compilers and bettors in the business so they consistently have the lowest possible margins that are long term viable so a company won't be able to succeed in consistently offering better margins than Pinnacle."

...said every single company who once led an industry. I have zero interest in what some guy named 'luctens' thinks of the future of bookmaking. If you have relevant info. to share (like I did), please do so. If you are here merely to state an opinion (dude), there is no need to say the same thing over and over again. Really, there isn't.

Well you must have had some interest in what I said as you replied questioning it, and as you have provided nothing of any substance to support your argument, I'll assume you accept what I've said as being accurate.

It is extremely relevant to point out that a sportsbook is trying to do what no bookmaker has ever successfully done in history, which is consistently beat Pinnacle's margins. So there is an obvious big risk to players' funds for any punter playing at a site that is trying to achieve something no sportsbook has ever achieved before.