[pokerplayer22]

Ok, I have been a big supporter of BetPhoenix, as you can read many of my previous posts. But this past weekend i ran into an issue which has me irritated beyond belief. I was playing in their live blackjack game for the first time. For anyone who has played this live game, you know that everyone is dealt the same hand. Now my problem is this. People can go log on and play for "play money" along with the people who are playing for real money. I played on Saturday and must have been joined by someone playing for play money who felt like just messing around with the table. There were 6 different hands where the goof playing for play money hit a hard 19 or hit a 20. Now I obviously stayed on those hands but in 5 of the 6 hands, the idiotic play by the goof playing for play money screwed the rest of the people playing for real money where he took a card that would have been the dealers next card. Now i am a partially educated guy so i know that the dumb moves could have just as easily helped as it did hurt the table but in this case it didnt.

My question is this...shouldnt betphoenix prohibit this from being able to take place. In their live baccarrat game, it is impossible for one player to screw another, but blackjack is a different story. If they want to allow people to be able to play for play money, they should have a seperate table. I alerted them of this and they basically said tough shit.

Any opinions on this matter???

[tomcowley]

Can you talk to the other players at the table? I'd love to go annoy a bunch of tilt monkeys and watch them go crazy over things that don't affect their expectation at all.

[pokerplayer22]

No, you cant talk to other players and i do realize that dumb players who are hitting on 20, etc dont affect the odds on the hand at all. And i realize that their dumb moves can help you just as easy as they can hurt you. My only point is just that it is very irritating and i feel that if someone alerts betphoenix that this is going on, they shouldnt just turn a blind eye. Who is to say that an employee from betphoenix isnt the one doing this...Lol. Can you imagine if this happened in a live casino where some player came up to a table, asked to be dealt in just for "fun" and then played like a goof. The other players at the table would probably beat him senseless outside.

I think betphoenix is wrong for not addressing the problem

[Mikelo]

Well they need to offer "fun money" mode to attract new customers. On the other hand this is live casino and offering separate table just for "fun players" would be kinda expensive IMO. Can you imagine in Vegas casino a separate table for fun money.. with toppless girls and free drinks lol. I would be pissed off too if some moron on the last seat hits on 20 and gets 6,while the dealer has 10, but as you said it works both ways.Tough shit indeed.

[pokerplayer22]

Well they need to offer "fun money" mode to attract new customers. On the other hand this is live casino and offering separate table just for "fun players" would be kinda expensive IMO. Can you imagine in Vegas casino a separate table for fun money.. with toppless girls and free drinks lol. I would be pissed off too if some moron on the last seat hits on 20 and gets 6,while the dealer has 10, but as you said it works both ways.Tough shit indeed.

Fair enough...thanks for the reply Mikelo....My only argument would be that if someone alerts betphoenix of some idiot playing like a goof for "fun" money, shouldnt betphoenix then block the "play money" feature in that guys acct and not allow him to do it anymore. For any new customers, the feature would stil be available.

I do like the topless girls and free drinks idea though

[coldhardfacts]

Now i am a partially educated guy so i know that the dumb moves could have just as easily helped as it did hurt the table

THIS^^^^^. Unless you can count cards, and I don't know how you can do this online, you are playing blackjack for entertainment purposes only and in the long run you will LOSE. PERIOD.

The play of other players is completely irrelevant.

[pokerplayer22]

I agree that the play of others can help you just as much as it can hurt you. My only point is that if there are 10 players playing at once, 9 of which are playing for real money, and there is one player playing for play money, and he is hitting on hard 19 and 20, etc, which is affecting the results of the people playing for real money (either positive or negative) that betphoenix should not allow that...That's all i was saying

[BET THE HOOK]

Thats unbelieveable...almost.

[Reload]

Sounds pretty annoying to me. If they expect anyone to bet serious money, they should change that format. I guess anyone betting it to begin with is a degenerate anyway though.

[bluefish]

wow

[pimike]

Any updates on policy here?

[wisky]

That is crazy why let some goof with no skin in the game play I would give these clowns a chance at 3 to 4 hands with no funds at risk, after that require them to play for money.

[FrankyB57]

wow.. im not playing there.

[blix177]

Now i am a partially educated guy so i know that the dumb moves could have just as easily helped as it did hurt the table but in this case it didnt.

I beg to differ: Suppose the card count is +20, and an idiot gets 10,10. He splits and (odds say he gets 10s, since it is +20 on the count). He would have essentially wasted some of the great +EV remaining in the deck. So how a player plays does have adjust the outcome of the cards.

When there is a high positive count, and someone taking card needlessly essentially pushes the +EV down.

And if the count is neg and a dude with 3,6 decides not to hit, it pushes the EV lower also, because it saves more crappy 2,3,4,5,6s cards for you to play with.

BTW can I have 1 point, to play at the casino LOL

[blix177]

BTW I was just watching the live casino in betphoenix, those cards are HUGE.

[blix177]

I just played with funny money there, and I can't see other people cards.

[iceminers26]

[droc]

never played in the live casino, but this would probably bother me too........

[juuso]

It makes no difference, really.

[korbal29]

[pokerplayer22]

I just played with funny money there, and I can't see other people cards.

Blix....everyone plays the same hand. Each player can choose to play the hand however they want to though. For example, if there are 10 people playing at once, and if the player gets dealt a 16 and the dealer shows a 10. Say 5 people hit and 5 people stand. The dealer gives the player a 3rd card, but the 3rd card only matters for the people's hand who hit. The others are still on 16.

But when people are hitting on hard 19 and 20 while playing for play money, that becomes very annoying and the worst thing is, when i alerted betphoenix about this, they said tough shit. Like I said, i know that those idiotic moves can just as easily help the player but when they dont, it becomes very annoying.

[pokerplayer22]

I beg to differ: Suppose the card count is +20, and an idiot gets 10,10. He splits and (odds say he gets 10s, since it is +20 on the count). He would have essentially wasted some of the great +EV remaining in the deck. So how a player plays does have adjust the outcome of the cards.

When there is a high positive count, and someone taking card needlessly essentially pushes the +EV down.

And if the count is neg and a dude with 3,6 decides not to hit, it pushes the EV lower also, because it saves more crappy 2,3,4,5,6s cards for you to play with.

BTW can I have 1 point, to play at the casino LOL

Actually i have to agree partially with this, however, even though it is really easy to count cards on there because the game moves slow, I have never done it so i wouldnt know if there was a plus or minus count at the time. Also, even though i myself never split 10's, i wouldnt have as much of a problem if someone split 10's against a bust card. But when you hit on 20, that is a different story.

[Mthorn]

I didn't know how da live casino worked so I stAyed away from it. I guess it was a good thing.

[neclannec]

live casino its cool.

[pokerplayer22]

live casino its cool.

Cool...yes, I think the idea of being able to play in a live casino while having hot girls deal to you in the comfort of your living room is cool. I was only saying that i lost alot of respect for betphoenix who i once thought was on its way to A+ status for the attitude that i got when i let them know what was going on with the stupidity on the blackjack table.

[tltaylor89]

I went in their and made 25bucks nothing unusual although I wasnt playing at peak times late at night for me

[Johnpoints]

I like the idea of the live casino, but its definitely still flawed.

[BET THE HOOK]

I sent 2 emails to Richard with Carlos the Casino Manager and Charles my Account Manager cc'd in the last month to complain about the live casino and the problems that I have had but they have not answered my emails at all. Before this I had glitches in the casino where I was running a chase system and the spin before my winning color came it blocked my chips from being played. The software knew I was playing the modified martingale system and blocked me on purpose. On another instance when I was playing I made wagers with 20+ seconds on the times and after I won it took the winnings back from my account and said thewheel was spinning. Carlos did pull the video from the 2 games I provided numbers for and saw I was correct and game me my $40 in winnings.
On another day I was playing and the game dropped my 278 balance to -31 and shot it up to 500+ and then back down to 278. If this casino is live why so many software problems? I requested my December losses which are 500-700 be refunded because I feel cheated by the system.I dont mind losing straight up because they have crushed me the last few monthe at the book but I just feel cheated at the casino there. I dont thing Richard or his employees cheated me but the company that they pay for that gaming software surely did. I am no sore loser for sure because I lose alot but I just want it to be on the up and up when it happens.

[pokerplayer22]

I sent 2 emails to Richard with Carlos the Casino Manager and Charles my Account Manager cc'd in the last month to complain about the live casino and the problems that I have had but they have not answered my emails at all. Before this I had glitches in the casino where I was running a chase system and the spin before my winning color came it blocked my chips from being played. The software knew I was playing the modified martingale system and blocked me on purpose. On another instance when I was playing I made wagers with 20+ seconds on the times and after I won it took the winnings back from my account and said thewheel was spinning. Carlos did pull the video from the 2 games I provided numbers for and saw I was correct and game me my $40 in winnings.
On another day I was playing and the game dropped my 278 balance to -31 and shot it up to 500+ and then back down to 278. If this casino is live why so many software problems? I requested my December losses which are 500-700 be refunded because I feel cheated by the system.I dont mind losing straight up because they have crushed me the last few monthe at the book but I just feel cheated at the casino there. I dont thing Richard or his employees cheated me but the company that they pay for that gaming software surely did. I am no sore loser for sure because I lose alot but I just want it to be on the up and up when it happens.

BTH...i hope Richard makes your situation right. You would think that they would do everything in their power to make sure their "valued" customers were happy, especially the ones that give them lots of deposits and action. Thats why I'm a little discouraged about their reaction to my issue and the way my issue was handled and even more discouraged that Richard (who does read these boards) hasnt come on here to make this situation right.

[pokerplayer22]

I will say this....Read almoat every single one of my posts regarding betphoenix over the last few months. Every single post has been nothing but positive and endorsing. This obviously changes my view and leaves a sour taste in my mouth

[BET THE HOOK]

BTH...i hope Richard makes your situation right. You would think that they would do everything in their power to make sure their "valued" customers were happy, especially the ones that give them lots of deposits and action. Thats why I'm a little discouraged about their reaction to my issue and the way my issue was handled and even more discouraged that Richard (who does read these boards) hasnt come on here to make this situation right.

I have been loyal to Richard for a long time and whenever anyone says any negative stuff about the book I usually defend them because they have been good to me but for them not to even answer or give me the finger makes me wonder if he is getting my emails. He normally answers the same day. I am no sore loser. I have sent 4 deposits this week and a few months bach I had a 12 deposit week. If I lose I can handle it but I dont feel right about this casino business. I have not been back to the casino since. The things that happened to me more than a few times are 1 in 300,000+ and 1 in a zillion or so and happened to me sevaral times in a few days and only when it was for real cash. When I used my system for play money I ran 100 to over 1000 every time.
I do have faith in Richard and hope he will answer me soon. He is a fair man and must just be really busy.

[pokerplayer22]

Well, i see that betphoenix came in here to post rebuttels in the other thread. I dont understand why they didnt come in and issue an explanation as to why they allow "play money" players to come to real money tables and hit on 20's, hence messing with the outcomes of hands that people have real money vested in.

[teaserpleaser]

im sure Richard will post when he see this... why not pm him?

[betphoenix]

I am having the item looked at is the reason. I dont like to post in specific instances without full info. I am more in touch with sports than casino, and need more help to get info needed for response.

Things I can tell you...we don't block by system (martingale etc)...it is a simple timer is all. We shortened it at 1 point to 20 sec because 45 sec bores the hell out of people and doubles playthrough. This change was made many moons ago.

The live software is proprietary and not leased from a 3rd party. SBR has seen it here in the bldg. We also save all video and database records to ensure that members get any claims resolved favorable or not.

The live casino software is not flawed.

[skrtelfan]

Wot do you want them to do tell people not to hit the 20?