[singo]

Hi,

First of all, I dont often use forums and second, I can in this case both me and pinnacle might be right. Also in this case it doesnt matter if the bet lost, as email was sent to them when error was discovered (they dont have phoneservice nor livechat).

The amount is quite small, but the principle remains the same. I made a parlay including this match:

Hapoel Tel Aviv vs Bnei Hasharon for Game ( 2.060)

The match is from Israel Basketball. I would not say im an expert on the league, but I know (since im from Europe) Bnei Hasharon has been doing quite ok some seasons ago, and also been in Eurocups and so on.

However when I found a livescore from Israel Basketball, I discovered that Bnei HASHRAON does not exist anymore, in fact THAT club stopped existing before 2012/2013 season. What happened was that in the past Bnei Hasharon was a club merged between the cities of Herzliya & Raanana, where they played in Metro West Raanana (stadium). However before last season, this club was ended, and new players, new coach and even new stadium (Havoyel Herzliya) with new logo and finally new name BNEI HERZLIYA came up.

So basically the whole setting was changed, and there is no club called Bnei Hasharon. Its sort of like Miami Marlins/Florida Marlins, but in this case absolutely everything was changed (players, coach, logo, name of club, stadium and so on), resulting in a very bad season last year as I checked after I found out it was the wrong club.

When confronting Pinnaclesports with this, they said "it is the same club". I can see where they are coming from, but really, its not the same club at all. When emailing them with same arguments as above they wrote:

"If you are not sure what you are betting on, you should send email to our Customer Service Department and ask for clarification before making the bet."

In my opinion again I see why they are writing it, but its a bit unfair to put the blame on the customer rather than the fact they are using the wrong team. Additionally I did place a bet on Bnei Hasharon which have been doing well some time ago, and was a¨contender in Europe, I did NOT place a bet on Bnei Herzliya.

I sent an email to the club (BNEI HERZLIYA) and asked them if they were called Bnei Hasharon, the manager itself replied:

"Our current club name is Bnei Herzliya (1985 - 2002 | 2012/13....). The city is Herzliya.
Between seasons 2002/03 - 2011/12 was a merger Herzliya & Raanana (cities).

Best Regards,

Izy Tchinio - General Manager
Bnei Herzeliya Basketball Club
Israel


In my opinion we have both sort of right, but I feel in this case the bet should be void, as its clearly a different team that played that match. If they played in the same stadium ok, but they actually moved to another city, with a new stadium, new coach and players, new logo and name, so for me its a void.

Still waiting their final decision, but dont expekt it to change.

[dink]

Hareeba will be here to defend pinnacle asap

[singo]

By all means, in general they are quite fair and no complaints, just think this was a bet that should be voided.

[onemoregoal]

In most other businesses the benefit of doubt would go in favour of the customer.
In sports betting, you are fukked, however.
Too big of a mistake from Pinnacle to claim that responsibility lies with customer, thats for checking you clicked the right bet - not for ensuring a team actually exists.

[PassTheDutchie]

If email was sent before the game started and you requested it to be void before the game started, they should void it. Seems simple to me.

[singo]

Pinnacle does not void bets if you request them void BEFORE the match, unless they agree to the fact its the wrong team. They dont agree, they say its the excactly same team, although all sources points towards the opposite. They used an old wikipediaarticle.

[roanildinho]

Pinnacle is 100 percent right you bet you lost, besides why would you bet ? its understandable who the teams are you would have to be really stupid to not know what team you are betting on. This team name is half wrong? i dont even think it is half wrong maybe it is their nickname sometiems sportbook do this.

pinnacle wins this case as usual

[singo]

Pinnacle is 100 percent right you bet you lost, besides why would you bet ? its understandable who the teams are you would have to be really stupid to not know what team you are betting on. This team name is half wrong? i dont even think it is half wrong maybe it is their nickname sometiems sportbook do this.

pinnacle wins this case as usual

Thanks for the feedback. Did you actually read what I wrote? (wouldnt blame you though if you didnt, as it was long)

Im not from Israel, so reason I bet on Hasharon is cause they have been quite good before. The fact remains, Hasharon did not compete in that fixture. Im sure not all of use make "minor bets" on teams we know absolutely everything about, im sure alot of "small players" like me make several bets during a week on different leagues and teams, without knowing full history.

That being said, you are saying its a nickname maybe..Did you read what I wrote? Its been confirmed its a different team, different stadium, different logo, different players, different coach. So you cant call Bnei Hasharon as a nickname for Bnei Herzliya..its like saying both Mancester teams (united and city) are the same.

Mind you, I didnt include the full email from the General manager of Herzliya, but he confirmed they were not Hasharon.

And please be more constructive than saying Im "being stupid". I bet on the team they presented to me, Hasharon.I made the bet a few minutes before tip off, not checking full history on team, but knowing Hasharon would normally do well. The bet was minor, so was the knowledge of the teams, it doesnt change the fact that they used the wrong team.

[roanildinho]

Man you are really stupid, i will prove you wrong right now big boy.
Number 1, you are biggest shill on earth with only 4 posts, Number 2 you are pretty stupid to betting on teams you have no idea on. Number three i read your post clearly. Number four if its only small bet why do you complain suck it up butter cup, Number 5 When i type bnei hasharon on google bnei Herzilya comes up why do you think this is? This is because name of team is bnei hasharon herzliyait is like calling manchester united the red devils.

NUMBER 6. No team is the same every season, just because roberto Mancini was manager of city last year and not this year and because city spend a shiiiizle load of money this transfer window for new players and just because city is a different team doesnt mean that because you bet on them and you lose you get a void.

To conclude pinnacle is always right and your wrong, give it up

[johnpendred]

Man you are really stupid, i will prove you wrong right now big boy.
Number 1, you are biggest shill on earth with only 4 posts, Number 2 you are pretty stupid to betting on teams you have no idea on. Number three i read your post clearly. Number four if its only small bet why do you complain suck it up butter cup, Number 5 When i type bnei hasharon on google bnei Herzilya comes up why do you think this is? This is because name of team is bnei hasharon herzliyait is like calling manchester united the red devils.

NUMBER 6. No team is the same every season, just because roberto Mancini was manager of city last year and not this year and because city spend a shiiiizle load of money this transfer window for new players and just because city is a different team doesnt mean that because you bet on them and you lose you get a void.

To conclude pinnacle is always right and your wrong, give it up

you real need to look up a definition of a "shill" you moron. how the f/ck is this guy shilling? you are 100% right on most of your points, but starting with calling him a shill baffles me.

[roanildinho]

you real need to look up a definition of a "shill" you moron. how the f/ck is this guy shilling? you are 100% right on most of your points, but starting with calling him a shill baffles me.

He is bringing bad name to pinnacle btw he Said New team was made last Year when they combined in the Year of 2011/2012 sumple wikepedia search no need to insulr John what we have here is case of i lost give me money back

[Optional]

That does sound like a case where all bets should be void based on your version.

I have seen other bookies, 5D the prime example, who void bets due to spelling or other minor errors. A non-existent team... I think 5D Tony would void that win or lose without much thought.

Would not bother chasing it though. Pinny don't get a lot wrong and it sounds like they have made their decision either way now.

Their problem is probably partly that you are the 1 person who wants their losing bet voided whilst there is likely a bunch of customers with the other side they would have to upset to do the void.

If determined, maybe write a paper letter explaining yourself and someone outside CS might take an interest.

[zizoudane10]

Void.
Had no issues with Pinnacle ever, best book on the planet, by far.
But that one should clearly be voided.

[roanildinho]

Incoreect this is not void people this is correct decision

[singo]

Man you are really stupid, i will prove you wrong right now big boy.
Number 1, you are biggest shill on earth with only 4 posts, Number 2 you are pretty stupid to betting on teams you have no idea on. Number three i read your post clearly. Number four if its only small bet why do you complain suck it up butter cup, Number 5 When i type bnei hasharon on google bnei Herzilya comes up why do you think this is? This is because name of team is bnei hasharon herzliyait is like calling manchester united the red devils.

NUMBER 6. No team is the same every season, just because roberto Mancini was manager of city last year and not this year and because city spend a shiiiizle load of money this transfer window for new players and just because city is a different team doesnt mean that because you bet on them and you lose you get a void.

To conclude pinnacle is always right and your wrong, give it up

You seriously have no clue, but I appreciate your feedback though.

First of all number of posts, shouldnt count towards anything. 2nd, if you cant comment without abusing people, its difficult to take you serious.

Three, yes you googled it and they come up together, thats why I wrote in the intital post that we both have right. But to compare this team with City just shows your lack of knowledge.

1) Bnei Harsharon stopped existing in 2011
2) Bnei Herziliya started existing after that season
3) These two teams never played in the same city, nor in the same stadium, nor with same players/coach, absouletely nothing is the same, except they are being called BNEI. Its like Turksish team were all are called SPOR, its not the same teams.

Pinnacle is a great bookie, it does not mean you should questioning when they are actually wrong. That its a small amount, actually proves im after the right decision, not the money itself.

[singo]

That does sound like a case where all bets should be void based on your version.

I have seen other bookies, 5D the prime example, who void bets due to spelling or other minor errors. A non-existent team... I think 5D Tony would void that win or lose without much thought.

Would not bother chasing it though. Pinny don't get a lot wrong and it sounds like they have made their decision either way now.

Their problem is probably partly that you are the 1 person who wants their losing bet voided whilst there is likely a bunch of customers with the other side they would have to upset to do the void.

If determined, maybe write a paper letter explaining yourself and someone outside CS might take an interest.

This. Thanks for the feedback, you are probably correct. Although its hard to come through their CS, but thats just how it is.

[singo]

But I leave this case now and see what happens. I notice almost everyone agree to the void, except roanildinho (which is entitled to his opinions), but his posts mostly consist of abuse which of course makes im difficult to take serious as I said. Furthermore comparing these two teams with the change Manchester City did, proves he either no nothing about Premier League (despite his name) or just want to be provokative. Dop When the GM of Herzilya himself confirms they are not HASHARON (nor a nickname as you keep nagging about), is it actually more to discuss?

[andywend]

Singo, first off, the fact that your bet was for a small amount has no bearing whatsoever on this matter. If anything, bettors who make larger bets should get better attention from customer service staff. There is no question you're on the wrong side of your complaint and the bet should be left to stand. There are some shady books out there who might try and wait till the event is over and void the bet if you win and grade the bet a loser otherwise. However, Pinnacle is not that kind of a book. You have no case here and should move on.

[singo]

Cheers Andy, appreciate your constructive feedback. I agree what you say about Pinnacle, but imo, they still listed a team that does not exist.

[andywend]

Singo, that is going to happen from time to time as they have a pretty large size betting menu. Pinnacle is really meant for the largest of bettors and is NOT necessarily the best site to be playing at if your betting limits are smaller and you are a novice bettor. Their linemakers are known around the world for being the sharpest and most accurate and its rare you'll find any value betting there and when you do, its because of the "Pinnacle lean" (Pinnacle taking a stand on a game and offering their customers a slightly better price on the team they don't like). I was able to retire before the age of 40 due to my sports betting and while I did incredibly well at most books (mainly exchanges actually), I always seemed to be transferring money into my Pinnacle Account as opposed to withdrawing from it (this was during the glory days before 2006 when Pinnacle accepted U.S. bettors and there being several betting exchanges available as well).

[singo]

Singo, that is going to happen from time to time as they have a pretty large size betting menu. Pinnacle is really meant for the largest of bettors and is NOT necessarily the best site to be playing at if your betting limits are smaller and you are a novice bettor. Their linemakers are known around the world for being the sharpest and most accurate and its rare you'll find any value betting there and when you do, its because of the "Pinnacle lean" (Pinnacle taking a stand on a game and offering their customers a slightly better price on the team they don't like). I was able to retire before the age of 40 due to my sports betting and while I did incredibly well at most books, I always seemed to be transferring money into my Pinnacle Account as opposed to withdrawing from it (this was during the glory days before 2006 when Pinnacle accepted U.S. bettors and there being several betting exchanges available as well).

I know what you mean, but even if you bet smaller or even if you are not constantly chasing the valueprice AND even if they are the sharpest guys around, they should still assure right teams are presented. Mind you, Bet365 offering a much larger offer (Pinnacle actually reduced several sports, going mainly into soccer), do cancel bets if the names are not correct presented (they even have a rule on that)

[andywend]

The main question is even though Pinnacle incorrectly presented the name of the team you bet on, was the team on the floor the correct team (the team you thought you were betting on with the correct players, coaches, etc.)?

[singo]

If the name, players, coaches, stadium, city, logo (you name is) is different from what they presented, I would say we are speaking about two different teams (like GM of the team confirmed).

[pjesnik24]

The main question is even though Pinnacle incorrectly presented the name of the team you bet on, was the team on the floor the correct team (the team you thought you were betting on with the correct players, coaches, etc.)?

irrelevant what he thought as there is no way to prove it and even if he knew what he was betting the point here is that if the team names does not exist then it should be voided. If in German Bundesliga there is a match listed between Fortuna Frankfurt - Bayer Leverkusen even though I know it is Eintracht Frankfurt the bet should be voided

[pjesnik24]

Man you are really stupid, i will prove you wrong right now big boy.
Number 1, you are biggest shill on earth with only 4 posts, Number 2 you are pretty stupid to betting on teams you have no idea on. Number three i read your post clearly. Number four if its only small bet why do you complain suck it up butter cup, Number 5 When i type bnei hasharon on google bnei Herzilya comes up why do you think this is? This is because name of team is bnei hasharon herzliyait is like calling manchester united the red devils.

NUMBER 6. No team is the same every season, just because roberto Mancini was manager of city last year and not this year and because city spend a shiiiizle load of money this transfer window for new players and just because city is a different team doesnt mean that because you bet on them and you lose you get a void.

To conclude pinnacle is always right and your wrong, give it up

I thought red devils are Kaiserslautern? Belgian national team? Korean national team? or it is exclusive to ManU?
Please tell us at what reputable bookie you have seen red devils against somebody?

[roanildinho]

Pjesnik i used an example no bookie would put red devils. But Bnei Hasharon Is understood by everyone who understands the isreali leauge as bnei herzilya, ifnact when you type bnei hasharon on google you get bnei herzilya,So get of my freaking back.

This OP says team was restarted last year, actually teams merged in start of 2011 season. This guy is a loser, and he wants vmoeny back, Scam books would void winners and accept the losers, its not what pinnacle is.

Dont make me repeat my point it is understood by anyone who has very basic knowledge that bnei hasharon herzilya same freaking team. everton changed their logo and manager this season does that mean everton is different team?

[pjesnik24]

Pjesnik i used an example no bookie would put red devils. But Bnei Hasharon Is understood by everyone who understands the isreali leauge as bnei herzilya, ifnact when you type bnei hasharon on google you get bnei herzilya,So get of my freaking back.

This OP says team was restarted last year, actually teams merged in start of 2011 season. This guy is a loser, and he wants vmoeny back, Scam books would void winners and accept the losers, its not what pinnacle is.

Dont make me repeat my point it is understood by anyone who has very basic knowledge that bnei hasharon herzilya same freaking team. everton changed their logo and manager this season does that mean everton is different team?

I do not have any knowledge about Bnei herzilya and if I was to place a few euro parlay bet on that team I would expect it to be voided if it is not called like that anymore.
has Everton changed their name? or it is still Everton?

[roanildinho]

you dont understand their team name is bnei hasharon herzilya, anyways its your fault if you bet on team you have no knowledge about dont expect your money back

[onemoregoal]

you dont understand their team name is bnei hasharon herzilya, anyways its your fault if you bet on team you have no knowledge about dont expect your money back

So, its just Pinnacle that is using the name "Bnei Hasharon"?

[singo]

I regret to inform Ronaldinho (or however he writes his name) that Pinnacle agrees with me in this case.

[onemoregoal]

I regret to inform Ronaldinho (or however he writes his name) that Pinnacle agrees with me in this case.

Good to hear.

[pjesnik24]

I am not surprised. As soon as your dispute was passed to somebody who knows what you are talking about it was voided. I do not think that they would try to steal from you on purpose

[singo]

I am not surprised. As soon as your dispute was passed to somebody who knows what you are talking about it was voided. I do not think that they would try to steal from you on purpose

True. But interestingly know they are saying I have to withdraw balance and they close the account. Sort of saying they agreed to the error, but feels offended. Thought they accepted a little bit criticism without being so offended.

Also they only repaid bet stake, didnt recalculate parlay, which is ok, but still..Feels strange they are shutting down the account, when the communication has been very fair all the time and no offensive language or anything.

[roanildinho]

i dont believe his story, pinnacle doesnt close accounts your a shill to the freakin max

[singo]

To conclude, we found a solution both can live with, end of case.