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I think all the Bodog employees posting here are missing my main point. I will make it very simple for them. 14 pass plays bet. 7 were winners, 7 were losers. All were bet before the snap of the ball which is the point Bodog uses to determine past-post or not. They were bet once I heard there was an empty backfield BEFORE the snap. They refused to pay the 7 winners, SO WHY IS IT OK FOR THEM TO KEEP THE MONEY FOR THE 7 LOSERS?
You're right. I got a little too argumentative, since I don't think either of you filed a complaint with SBR.Originally Posted by brandonsvsu
Oh, and while you are defending Bodog's practices, please include your defense of their customer service. The representative on the phone told me that the guys in the sportsbook don't talk to anyone, so I could not get an explanation of their decisions. He promised to have someone with some level of authority call me the next day which they never did. If they had spoken to me that night or called me back, I never would have come to this site to alert people to the way they do business. I'm sure you all have dealt with companies over the phone who treat you like crap and basically tell you that they don't care about your business and there is nothing you can do about it at that point other than warn others not to make the same mistakes by trusting them.
You always know a player was up to something when everyone with a different opinion becomes a sportsbook employee.
I was wondering you would ignore the questions raised in my last two posts because you had no defense for your precious Bodog, or if you would just change the subject. Seems you went with the latter.
im afraid already to register to bodog,,, i will look for other online betting..... how about the ibcbet? anyone here experience some difficulty with the ibcbet sportsbook?
Last edited by starfish; 09-15-09 at 09:05 PM.
I was actually just hoping you would read the rest of my posts which pretty clearly explained my position, but here it is again:
Obviously, canceling only the winning bets was improper. They got ticked off at you for using a faster feed and they punished you. As for the customer service, same story.
If you really had no idea that what you were doing was sketchy, then I'd say you got screwed. However, when someone new comes in here talking about how they were innocently listening to the game outside drinking with friends while live-betting because the weather was so great, then one post later is going to spill all of his live-betting secrets to bring down live betting at Bodog, then proceeds to call long-time posters Bodog employees, well, I've seen it all before.
As I said earlier, you could pursue this, and there is probably a decent chance you could get the losing bets canceled, but I still think your approach was pretty lame.
I think the source of the information is important in determining whether or not such behavior constitutes "cheating." If the source of the information comes from a source not readily available to the general public (a spectator at the game, a player, a helmet audio feed, a game plan, etc) then I would call it cheating. But if the source of the information is a source readily available to the general public (heck, the public airwaves), then I don't know how you could possibly call it "cheating."
The mere fact that Bodog cannot legally operate in the United States and thus cannot get access to the same public airwaves that somebody here in the US has access to - well - that's their problem.
wontootree,
I am not a BoDog employee but a bettor just like you who also received the same "suspicious betting pattern" email.
The difference between us is you received the email because you were past posting BoDog live using a live radio feed while I received it because my action was no longer welcome after years of beating them up on their prop/future bets.
I wouldn't have had a problem if they just admitted the real reason but I took offense to the "suspicious betting pattern" accusation.
Are you claiming (while listening to a live radio feed) you never placed a bet on BoDog live BEFORE the ball was snapped? If so, we both know you're not being truthful here. Bodog would NOT cancel any of your bets if they were indeed made several seconds before the ball was snapped. With that being said, if Bodog did indeed cancel all of your winning bets and left the losing ones to stand, they have no right to do so.
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The JACKASS "THEMAJORMT"' said the following:
Andy you make no sense! So now you're saying the player can only use the feed Bodog uses?!?!?! If they want to offer live wagering then they need to get the fastest feed. Thats bullshit and you are an idiot for making such claims.
The player can certainly use any feed they have in their possession. However, if the player's feed is several seconds ahead of the feed Bodog has and they are using this information to place wagers on plays where they already know the result, they shouldn't be surprised when BoDog cancels the wager in question.
As far as your statement of BoDog needing to get the fastest feed if they want to offer live wagering, its just not possible. Any bettor with a local radio feed will always have a time advantage and there is nothing BoDog can do about it other than to cancel the wagers from bettors who are obviously past-posting them. If you think otherwise, THEN YOU ARE THE ONE WHO'S AN IDIOT.
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Brandonsvsu, even if Bodog was located in the U.S., they couldn't gain access to every local radio feed unless you know of a radio that exists that is able to pick up local stations from around the country. If such a radio exists and you know of it, I would certainly appreciate any information you have on the subject.
Last edited by andywend; 09-16-09 at 08:54 AM.
Andy, I never received any email from Bodog nor did I have any messages from them in my account mailbox. They simply cancelled the bets, dropped my limit to $1, and refuse to explain it to me. The email I received was regarding a college game a couple weeks earlier where they left the odds up after the play had happened on TV. The email said that they cancelled this bet for everyone and that I could call them if I had a problem with this. I had no problem with it of course because they were right, so I never called them. The email wasn't directed at me personally and I was not accused of doing anything wrong. I was not previously warned for anything and I had bet well over 100 of their live game since they began offering the service.
MrX, Thank you for agreeing that not cancelling the pass play loses was wrong on their part. Aside from lowering my limits with no previous warning, that is my main gripe. As for my claim of drinking outside all day, while I have way to prove it to you, but the people at Bodog can see it is true based on me placing no bets on the early game. I have bet on every live game they offered this year and pretty much all of them last year, but at 1pm we were all listening to the Jets game on the radio and that game was not offered on live betting. I would have placed bets on the early game as well if I were in fact inside the whole time using both the TV and radio as you suggest.
Also, as for my secrets I agreed to share, they do not concern cheating and "secrets" is a bad choice of words on my part as most of them are fairly obvious. They are based on the employees setting the lines for Bodog probably never having watched a football game in their lives. For example, say the O/U yard line is the 26 1/2 for the opening kickoff and Team A kicks the ball out of the end zone. They reduce the line on their next kickoff to the 21 1/2 or 20 1/2 REGARDLESS. They don't factor in that it may now be the 2nd quarter and they are now kicking into the 20 mph wind instead of with it. The same goes for punts. They don't seem to factor in ANYTHING! I placed 21 bets on kicks for $100 during the preseason game in Denver where they never factored in the altitude. I won 17 of them. If the players only bet kickoffs and punts for the maximum allowable bet of $100, they will win about $300 per game on average if they are smart. As opposed to the horrible odds Bodog gives on every other type of play in live betting, kickoffs and punts start at -115 either way... but that is usually only for a few seconds until the public jumps all over the clueless O/U line they set and the line on one side shoots up to -225, so act fast. Bodog makes all their money back because people get caught up in the "fun" and bet other things as well. As I confessed to earlier, I only bet on individual plays because the radio anouncers described the formation BEFORE the snap otherwise I would have stuck to kicks as always. I did not believe this was illegal based on Bodog's rules and still continue to believe so.
The lowering of your limits is really nowhere in the neighborhood of the canceled bets. Canceling just your winners, assuming that the losers were of the same pattern, is pretty much just a theft (not a surprising one, though), but don't expect warnings or explanations for lowered limits when you've got a big edge on a book. They're private businesses and they can set the terms of the service they offer to you. Considering how easy it is for offshore books to outright steal from us, simply having limits lowered if we're doing something sketchy isn't so bad.
Honestly, I don't much doubt that you were outside with friends. It's just that you were spinning it as this innocent thing, but you obviously make a habit of using the radio feed to gain an edge, no matter the weather. And don't get me wrong, I like the idea of using the radio feed. I would totally do that. But, I would recognize it as fringe behavior, at best, and I would expect possible consequences.
It sounds like you had some good handicapping angles on the live betting, that may have helped disguise your radio plays. Hopefully, the money you made outweighs what they're stealing from you in this last game.
I probably wouldn't have been so argumentative in this thread, if it wasn't for the employee cracks out of you. I would recommend dropping that from your arsenal. It makes a person look very defensive.
How could you be past posting when the ball hasn't been snapped yet.You mean they cancel bets for( pre posting ) is what you mean because if the ball on the play hasn't been snapped yet then they have to take the action up to the point where the ball is snapped.Hell its not our fault they they have a crap ass feed.Like I said before Bodog is only good for Poker and nothing else.In this case the Bodog live betting system has a major flaw and everyone on this foroum should take their asses to the bank on it.
i use to be a fan of bodog but the last couple months have totally changed my opinion of them,on there poker sites it seems everytime i go all in with the nuts i get froze out and it comes back on when the hand says 'SIT OUT;the times it happened before ,they would say its my computer and to redo the program in my computer [which i did knowing it wasn that cause its a new computer]well it happened again today and it is getting to the point where i think bodog is going to lose alot of players and my friends on that site because they dont take care of the players.they always say they will check it out and then an hour later like always they say there is nothing they can do.so if there is nothing they can do ,i will make sure everybody knows how they operate.
MrX: The lowering of your limits is really nowhere in the neighborhood of the canceled bets. Canceling just your winners, assuming that the losers were of the same pattern, is pretty much just a theft (not a surprising one, though), but don't expect warnings or explanations for lowered limits when you've got a big edge on a book.
Actually to me the lowering of the limits is worse since I looked at Bodog live betting as a free $200 to $300 for every game they offered. Honestly I believe they may have just been looking for a way to stop me from playing which is why I am more than happy to help others take my place.
MrX: It sounds like you had some good handicapping angles on the live betting, that may have helped disguise your radio plays. Hopefully, the money you made outweighs what they're stealing from you in this last game.
I did not use the radio prior to this, other than the one time that I noticed that the radio announcers will tell you when the wildcat QB is running on the field and the starter is coming off. For teams that do this often, the bettors can clean up betting on rushing plays. There is nothing past-post to do with this scenario. Again, I'm just spreading the information so others can do with it as they please. Isn't that the point of this forum? As for me, I have always stuck to my same strategy, kicks and kicks alone and the radio does not help with this. As I stated before, you don't need any help because the guys setting the lines don't have a clue about football.
Last edited by wontootree; 09-16-09 at 12:47 PM.
As pissed off as I am at their sportsbook, I have to admit that I've been playing poker at Bodog for years and have never had any issues with them or their software. While I can see why they would screw sportsbook players out of their money any chance they get (that being because they keep it all!), if they were to screw a poker player out of a hand they are only giving his money to another player and I don't see why they would have a motive to do so. At least they have never done so to me.
He was comparing their actions from a legal standpoint, you're comparing them from how it affects your bottom line.
If you haven't done so already, file a complaint and see if you can either get all of the wagers on that game accepted or get the losing bets cancelled. If you didn't past-post (or if you did, but they have no evidence) then you might be able to get the $500 or whatever they took from you.
Oh, my bad LOL. A couple minutes after my original post in this thread, a moderator sent me a link to a complaint form. I then cut and pasted my original post into it and filled in my player info, but that was a couple days ago and other than receiving a copy of my filled in form in an email, I never heard anything else about it.
I wasn't suggesting that it wasn't a big deal for you, I'm saying that lowering your limits, or even outright booting you, is well within their rights, whereas canceling only your winning bets probably is not. Sharp bettors get collared and booted from soft books all of time. If they didn't we wouldn't have any soft books. You don't have a God-given right to play at any given book. They can choose their customers.
If you were doing so well without the radio, then you made a big mistake by using the radio on the same account. Did it really not occur to you that you might draw unwanted attention to your account.
Yes I was honestly that clueless. Here in Jersey, everyone has real life bookies and thats what I grew up using. They would never let a player get away from them if the player was up money, they want to win their money back! I only used my online account for poker for many years. I was with Pokerroom until they stopped allowing US players and they had no sportsbook. Then I moved to Carbon Poker who also had no sportsbook until they stopped allowing US players. It was only then that I moved to Bodog and until last football season, I only had used that account for poker. I had never even seen this forum until two days ago, so I had no idea online gambling sites tried to chase away players who won until you just said so. Even so, its not like I was beating up their sportsbook on the whole, I suck at picking individual games but this has never stopped me from continually trying. All the thousands in the account are basically from poker.
Every week, Westwood One carries at 1 PM game, a 4 PM game, the Sunday Night game, the Monday Night game, and Thursday night games. So long as Bodog was located in a city which had a Westwood One radio affiliate (so long as that station wasn't also broadcasting in HD), they would have constant access to a live feed of many games every week which they could offer live betting on. I've always been amazed at just how close to "live" Westwood One radio coverage is - the cause of time delay in digital tv is for the time to encode the signal - I think Westwood One still transmits an analog signal which requires zero encoding time, meaning that the only time delay is the time for the signal to travel about 45,000 miles - or about 1/4 of a second.Brandonsvsu, even if Bodog was located in the U.S., they couldn't gain access to every local radio feed unless you know of a radio that exists that is able to pick up local stations from around the country. If such a radio exists and you know of it, I would certainly appreciate any information you have on the subject.
As for radio, I have a KA-2100 (C-Crane also makes an identical model under their brand) which has incredible AM reception, this is the radio I used. I was often able to pick up college games during the week from just about anywhere in the eastern half of the US so long as the college has a radio affiliate on a clear channel. After dark, its amazing what you can pick up on the AM dial from around the country. It was a nightly ritual for me last year to see what game Bodog was offering live betting on, google searching the radio affiliates of each college playing, and finding the game on the radio. I was able to find probably 80 percent of college night games offered by bodog live on my radio.
Last edited by brandonsvsu; 09-16-09 at 04:58 PM.
bodog is on an island in the middle of Caribbean, which does not of course preclude them from picking up those radio signals. The problem is then they have to take the bets of the board before most people watching on tv have a chance to bet, and that costs them money.
In that case, with a proper receiver, they could probably pick up the Westwood One feed directly from the satellite. btw - I think I found an emoticon that accurately portrays bodog and radio bettors -
Which was the main problem I pointed out earlier - you take the lines down even 3 seconds earlier, you lose a lot of bets and hence a lot money.
..
Last edited by LVHerbie; 09-16-09 at 06:52 PM. Reason: ..
Time to turn on the radio and give it a shot! If it works well I am going to tether a phone to a laptop, at a live game.
Betting from a live game could arguably constitute cheating because you would then have access to information that the general public does not have access to.
Though that would admittedly give you the ultimate time delay advantage
Bodog returned $525 for the bets I lost past-post today. That was all I ever wanted and I now feel that I was treated justly. I want to thank the people who run this website because your handling of the complaint is the reason the money was returned. I was not able to even get them to listen to my side of the story until you presented it to them. Your website provides a great service for people like me who otherwise would have no where to turn. It is also nice to know that Bodog will fairly evaluate a complaint filed here and in the end do the right thing. I think they only check winning bets to see if they were past-post under the assumption that if someone was betting on a play after it was over, they should be able to get it right. I think they believe me now that they realize I got half of the bets wrong. Thanks again to everyone here for supporting me on this issue. Your website has a new fan!
Surely the delay issue is not a exclusive Bodog problem - anyone can enlighten us on how other books handling this kind of issue ?
Normal books have you enter your password or have some sort of confirmation stage which pretty much eliminates the problem.
Bodog chooses to allow players to bet instantly, which I assume gets them more action. So again it's back to the same issues presented earlier in the thread. They can make changes to eliminate the sharp action/angle-shooting, but they will lose a considerable amount of other action.
Any owned bodog in tonights GT vs Miami game?
I don't see why they can't still offer instant action while just rejecting past-post bets from ever being accepted. The main problem I have is that they ACCEPT the bet instantly and then later cancel it. If they had some type of delayed bet acceptance system that would work like this:
-Before the game, Bodog calculates the approximate time delay existing on their feed (shouldn't be that difficult to figure out if they did a little research)
-For each play, You place your bet. It says pending.
-Bodog at some time (the same time they do now) takes down the lines
-At the exact moment the ball is snapped on Bodog's feed, somebody there presses a button telling the system that the ball has been snapped. Then the computer system does a calculation - if the lines were taken down before the ball was snapped in realtime, then all bets taken change to "accepted." If the lines were still up after the ball was snapped in real-time, then all bets made after that calculated time show as "rejected: past post" and all other bets go to "Accepted".
This isn't rocket science. And it would prevent the problem of the appearance of selectively canceling accepted bets. And it would save them from having to take down the lines any earlier so they would still see just as much action.
If they implement something like this in the future, I want some $$$ for my idea
why are people playing at this book.. its junk
Poker
Good to hear.
Anyone tried to beat bodog system before? They like to jack up the odds against you by tracking your betting pattern. My friend and I always get different spread, and our computer is next to each other. I suggest someone just keep buying $1 favor on their book, and bet $1000 on underdog when the lines is good. They use to be a good book to scrap with pinnacle with their 10% bonus.
Comment from Richard G...
Hey guys, sorry for the late comment- I was away in Europe for two igaming conferences in a row. Anyway, I did speak directly with Bodog.com's bookmaker Richard G. about this issue, and I'd like to share his response with you:
“We appreciate the feedback we received and have resolved any outstanding past post issues regarding forum poster wontootree. We are well aware of anyone trying to gain an unfair advantage using sources outside of television broadcasts in wagering on our recreational Bodog Live in-running product and as such, these measures are identified as past post opportunities. If anyone else has encountered similar past post situations with our in-running product, we’d be happy to review your account and encourage you to contact us at sports@bodog.com or 1-866-591-0083.
Sincerely,
Richard G.”
Thank you!
BodogBecky
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