[fairplay]

I need your opinion about my case.

Some B rated sportsbook accuses me of possible fraud or money laundering, gives me no explanation, closes my account and denies me to pay me back my money. The company is based in Malta.

Lets make a long story short. Two weeks ago i made a deposit of 150 Euro by some payment provider to willhill. Within three days i made around 6.5 k out of my initial deposit and made a withdrawal by that payment provider. willhill made some security checks therefore.

then i tried to cash out my money from that payment provider to my bank account and was told it could take around 10 days until i will receive that money i thought that this is too long because i wanted to go on holiday and did the following:
I sent around 600 to partybets, made 1.5 k of it and cashed out from party by wire - without any problem. i sent 1k to another sportsbook and cashed out 1k after a couple of bets by wire - without any problem. i sent 300 to betfair and lost it. then i sent two payments - one of 1k and one of 1.6k to the sportsbook which i mentioned in the initial stages of my post (rated b), made two bets with them got my account closed by the sportsbook. i made 2.5 k from these two bets which means i lost around 100 euro to them. i received another payment of 2.7 k by the payment provided who closed my accounts afterwards because they got mad with me when i canceled the initial 6.5 k cashout from them and sent the money to sportsbooks instead.

once again. all i wanted to do is send the money to sportsbook, make some bets with them and cash out by wire from the sportsbooks because i did not want to wait 10 days for the money to hit my bank account.

i will get back to the b rated sportsbook which closed my account. my initial deposit with that company was 1k. i made a bet which i won and the payout was 1.3k everything fine so far. i asked for a cashout by wire. then a couple of hours later i made another 1.6k deposit with the company and made some bets with it. i made just 1.2 k with this money. so i lost around 100 to the company. i made another withdrawal request by wire - this time 1.2k (so i had wire wd of 2.5k pending with that company). When i checked my account there a couple of hours later i found out that my account was frozen. i contacted their support and was told that this is their usual way with new clients and they are doing some routine checks. one day later i contacted them again and this time i was told to send them some documentation (id etc). i did that and was told to wait. yes, i really had to wait wait wait. the day before i left for my holidays i was told to wait again because their fraud and risk dep. was doing some checks. i really got pissed because even after 5 days my account was still frozen. they told me that i have to sort out some stuff with the payment provider and that i can only cash out by that provider. nonsense - the account was closed by the payment provider because they were not happy that i canceled my wd with them and sent it to sportsbooks instead. i told them that many times and even told them to ask other sportsbooks about my player history, how i made my winnings with them, where my deposits came from etc etc etc. in the end i really sent them screenshots of my willhill account and was told to wait.

then i left for my holidays and thought everything would be sorted when i get back home. no way. last night i tried to log on and it said "user does not exist". however i found out that i still can change my password with them. i contacted them and was told that they closed my account. i asked for a reason why they closed it and all they did was sending me some paragraphs which tells that they can close any account in case they think the money comes from fraud or money laundering. when i asked them which way they will pay me my 2.5k balance they did not respond anymore. in the email they sent me that i can contact the gaming board of malta if i am not happy with their decision. is this a joke? i never did something wrong nor came the money from fraud or money laundering. i mean with such terms any company can accuse anyone of fraud or money laundering and keep their money. this is like stealing. no bonus was involved - nothing.

now please tell me if it was fair to close my account and keep my money or not. i need some advice what to do now.

thx.

[robmpink]

hope you get pd bud, but there are always two sides to every story.

[fairplay]

right - 100 % right but not even close in this case. no bonus, money came from winnings at willhill, all other accounts with the sportsbooks i sent my money to are still open and no bad lines used. i was allowed to play with them for three or four hours until they froze my account. i have no clue why they did that. they even don`t explain it and just copy and paste parts of their terms.

[Chopsticks]

Just a guess -- Is it Unibet? If so they are famous for opening and closing accounts like this before processing (first) withdrawals. It is a pain in the ass and sometimes the verification process can take a while. Never heard of them actually stiffing anyone though, and in my opinion they are solid, just veeeery paranoid.

[fairplay]

nope. betsson

[Justin7]

Fill out a complaint, we'll take a look at it.

[headgames]

A payment provider closed your account because you asked for a withdrawal and then cancelled it? That sounds strange, who is that? I know Moneybookers clamp down on what they deem to be actions akin to money laundering but have never heard anything like that before.

Probably the clue as to why they froze your account is in the terms they're pasting you which, as you're saying you didn't money launder, are the money laundering terms? 1k deposit by one method, 1.3k withdrawal to another. Hours later 1.6k deposit by first method, 1.2k withdrawal to the other. Not saying you've done anything untowards at all but considering much smaller sum movement between methods or people can flag as suspicious and have to be reported, I would actually expect that behaviour to definitely cause concern in an accounts department in Europe.

I hope it can be sorted favourably if it's just a matter of innocent behaviour triggering some sort of "alarm" at their side.

[fairplay]

Justin, i already did that more than a week ago - i never received any reply.

what i wanted to do was the following
C&B ----- sportsbook ------- betting ----- cashing out by wire
C&B took the money out of my bank account (the initial deposit i made to willhill where all my money came from). I mean what does that have to do with fraud or money laundering. C&B closed my account because i canceled my wd requests from them when i was told that a wire takes 10 days and i sent the money to sportsbooks and cashed out by wire from them. it was risky because i could even have lost it. i can not see what i did wrong.

the company sent me the following by email but never explained to me what i did wrong:
As per our terms and conditions;

3.1.9. You shall not be involved in any fraudulent, collusive, fixing or other unlawful activity in relation to Your or third parties’ participation in any of the Games and shall not use any software-assisted methods or techniques or hardware devices for Your participation in any of the Games. BETSSON hereby reserves the right to invalidate or close Your Member Account or invalidate Your participation in a Game in the event of such behaviour;


10. Anti-money laundering reporting 10.1.
BETSSON complies with the Anti-Money Laundering Act. BETSSON shall report any suspicious transaction to the relevant competent authorities in Malta . 10.2.
If You become aware of any suspicious activity relating to any of the Games of the Website, You must report this to BETSSON immediately. 10.3.
BETSSON may suspend, block or close Your Member Account and withhold funds if requested to do so in accordance with the Anti-Money Laundering Act.



11. Breaches, penalties and termination 11.1.
If You breach any provision of these T&C or BETSSON has a reasonable ground to suspect that You have breached them, BETSSON reserves the right not to open, suspend, close Your Member Account, withhold payment of Your winnings and apply such funds on account of any damages due by You. 11.2.
If BETSSON suspects that You are engaged in illegal or fraudulent activities when using the Website; or in breach of this Agreement; or that You are having problems with creditors or otherwise detrimental to our business, we may freeze or terminate Your account or cancel any stakes at our absolute discretion. 11.3.
You acknowledge that BETSSON shall be the final decision-maker of whether You have violated Betsson’s rules, terms or conditions in a manner that results in BETSSON’s suspension or permanent barring from participation in our site.

can any company close down an account and keep the balances? Then i will open up a sportsbook and do the same with my customers. i will tell anyone that i came to the conclusions mentioned above.

This is all confusing.

[UV82]

Betsson is a solid book - should not have a problem ... unless you have done something, which you are not telling us.

I m not sure how long you have been betting online ... but as a matter of principal never try and do something clever to get around the system or anything which may upset the bookmaker or raise questions ... you are going to get into trouble... e.g If you deposit via Neteller, withdraw the same way ... your story is sooooooo complex and you sound like a very complex guy too (by the so many words you use to tell us that Betsson are not paying you because they are suspecting that you done something frausdulant) and I therefore suspect that there is a side of the story which we havent heard... but in any case good luck.

[fairplay]

email from betsson:

We would like to inform you that after a thorough investigation on your gaming activities we have reached the final decision to close down your account permanently. This decision has been made by our Risk and Fraud team after carefully considering the evidence of the case. If you have a complaint to make please direct it to the LGA ( Lotteries and Gaming Authority, http://www.lga.org.mt/lga/home.aspx ), who govern Betsson’s license.Betsson will not respond to anymore inquiries regarding this case.


furthermore in another email when i said it is ok that the account is closed and remains closed i asked how they will return my funds / current balance

Thank you for your email to Betsson.

Please respect our decision in closing your account, we have informed you that we no longer can answer questions about this case.

Your account is closed, and will remain closed.

Have a great day.

I guess it was a pretty dumb move by me to show them my willhill account history and how i won the money. i really wanted to show them how i made the money i deposited with the and that it has nothing to do with money laundering / fraud. once again: no bonus was involved. now they keep 2.5k from me.

Personal note: I would never ever say they are a no pay or bad book. They may be a top book. However i don`t get it if there is some kind of misunderstanding or whatever in this case. What I just found out is the following:
I made a deposit with betsson - made a bet - made a wd by wire - everything fine, wire was pending
i made another deposit with betsson - made some bets - account got frozen. Then i check my C&B account and it was locked as well. Then i contacted betsson by livechat and they said they have nothing to do with my C&B account being locked and that this is my personal business. Excuse me - both accounts got locked within a minute but all other accounts with sportsbooks remain open and available for depositing and betting. My guess is that betsson accuses me of money laundering because i made my deposit by C&B and tried to cash out (after betting) by wire. so they contacted C&B and told them of their suspission and so both accounts got locked. Is that fair? It was my money. It had nothing to do with money laundering. Maybe it was my fault to deposit by C&B and wd by wire but even that does not give them the right to confiscate my money. All other sportsbooks accepted what i did but just not betsson.

What do you think about that case? Was it a foulplay by me that gives them the right to confiscate my money?

[fairplay]

email from betsson:

We would like to inform you that after a thorough investigation on your gaming activities we have reached the final decision to close down your account permanently. This decision has been made by our Risk and Fraud team after carefully considering the evidence of the case. If you have a complaint to make please direct it to the LGA ( Lotteries and Gaming Authority, http://www.lga.org.mt/lga/home.aspx ), who govern Betsson’s license.Betsson will not respond to anymore inquiries regarding this case.


furthermore in another email when i said it is ok that the account is closed and remains closed i asked how they will return my funds / current balance

Thank you for your email to Betsson.

Please respect our decision in closing your account, we have informed you that we no longer can answer questions about this case.

Your account is closed, and will remain closed.

Have a great day.

I guess it was a pretty dumb move by me to show them my willhill account history and how i won the money. i really wanted to show them how i made the money i deposited with the and that it has nothing to do with money laundering / fraud. once again: no bonus was involved. now they keep 2.5k from me.

Personal note: I would never ever say they are a no pay or bad book. They may be a top book. However i don`t get it if there is some kind of misunderstanding or whatever in this case. What I just found out is the following:
I made a deposit with betsson - made a bet - made a wd by wire - everything fine, wire was pending
i made another deposit with betsson - made some bets - account got frozen. Then i check my C&B account and it was locked as well. Then i contacted betsson by livechat and they said they have nothing to do with my C&B account being locked and that this is my personal business. Excuse me - both accounts got locked within a minute but all other accounts with sportsbooks remain open and available for depositing and betting. My guess is that betsson accuses me of money laundering because i made my deposit by C&B and tried to cash out (after betting) by wire. so they contacted C&B and told them of their suspission and so both accounts got locked. Is that fair? It was my money. It had nothing to do with money laundering. Maybe it was my fault to deposit by C&B and wd by wire but even that does not give them the right to confiscate my money. All other sportsbooks accepted what i did but just not betsson.

What do you think about that case? Was it a foulplay by me that gives them the right to confiscate my money?

[noyb]

has C&B given an explaination for locking your account?

[fairplay]

no.
latest email from betsson:

Dear Andreas,

Thank you for your email to Betsson.

Money will remain in your account, we consider this case is closed.



excuse me, they are stealing my money!!!!

[AimingHigh]

It's weird, Fairplay.

I have no experience of this with Betsson but at other bookies, if I have mistakenly tried to withdraw via a different method than I used to deposit, the withdrawal just gets refused and I get an e-mail asking me to resubmit. Eg. I deposited via debit card, but forgot by the time (several months later) I went to withdraw, and thought it was Moneybookers. The bookie then just refuses, and e-mails asking me to withdraw via debit card. I only remember doing this for sure once, and I think it was Canbet, though I could have done this other times.

Have you submitted a complaint with SBR? I would do so, and state very clearly how much you deposited by C&B, and when, and how much you have withdrawn and received via wire, and how much was pending (withdrawal).

Not that it should be relevant to you getting your funds back eventually as I believe your money is your money no matter how you deposit and withdraw, but you might want to explain in the complaint why you sought to withdraw another way from that which you used to deposit, and why you then re-deposited via the original method, and then again sought to withdraw via the new method. That's the part that looks a little odd on your part.

Hopefully, a Mod here can work with Betsson to resolve this. My impression is that they're a very solid book, so hopefully you'll get treated fairly. Here's the complaint form: http://www.sportsbookreview.com/Spor...Complaint.aspx

[UV82]

their email replies are too professional to be a scam ... I am very curious to know whats their case ... they must have a very strong case against you, FAIRPLAY, to suggest you go to the LGA and lodge a complaint ... there is something you are telling us FAIRPLAY

[UV82]

and the lesson to be learnt - dont do anything funny with these books ... they will find any excuse not to pay

[fairplay]

i really did not do anything wrong.
i made a 1k deposit and made 2 in running bets with it on some volleyball game. i won 1330 euro with that money. so my balance was at 1330 euro and i made a wd request of 1300 euro to my bank account.
then one hour later i made another 1660 euro deposit by C&B. at that time my balance at C&B was around 4500 euro or so. i played a parlay for 250 or so which i lost, another parlay for 310 which i lost and a single bet on twente enschede for 1000 euro which paid 1200 euro. minutes after i placed that single bet my account got frozen and the same happened to my C&B account. But: C&B paid me the rest of my balance which i had with them (2300 euro or so) to my bank account even after my account there got locked. so my guess is that they (C&B) locked my account on behalf of betsson.

once again: all i wanted to do is deposit by C&B and wd by wire. there was no bonus or foulplay involved. in case C&B would have told me that they process my wd right away i would not have risked my money with betsson. the damned operator at C&B told me that i have to wait 10 days or so until they process my wd to my bank account. so i thought it would be faster to shift it to sportsbooks and then wd it by wire from them. all sportsbooks i played with allowed that but just betsson closed my account. i really start thinking that they accuse me of money laundering which i never did. there is nothing to add to that story. yes, i played just low odds to be on the safe side. that is all i did and nothing more.

[fairplay]

and i have to add the following:
they don`t want me as a customer anymore and i don`t want to be their customer.
i made deposits of 2660 euro and lost some money to them.
it would only be fair to return my current balance to me and keeping my money is like stealing it. they even have not told me what they accuse me of and now ignore my emails.

We would like to inform you that after a thorough investigation on your gaming activities we have reached the final decision to close down your account permanently

i guess it was my fault to send them screenshots of my willhill activities. so they knew how fast i made my money there and how i made it there. they either accuse me of money laundering or their risk and fraud dep did not want me as a customer because i won some nice ammount at willhill within two days.

all other accounts i used at several sportsbooks are still open and i even made deposits there today and had no problems with them. it is just betsson.

however i will not play at willhill again as they limited me to 1 euro per bet and everything over that ammount has to be approved by a trader who does not allow me to bet more that 8 euro per game max.

[fairplay]

to show you more proof that there is nothing to add here is my willhill history:

Deposit C&B + €100.00

Deposit C&B + €50.00


Withdrawal C&B - €4800.00

Withdrawal C&B - €2069.00

[Toit]

So, a short summary:

-You deposit at Betsson with C&B.
-You place a few bets at low odds at Betsson.
-You want to withdraw your winnings to your bank account and not to C&B.
-C&B account gets locked.
-Betsson closes your account and keeps your money.

[AimingHigh]

Unless I'm missing something, your WillHill history is irrelevant to this issue with Betsson.

The problem is that you DID try and use Betsson to avoid withdrawal restrictions with C&B, and what you did DOES look odd - the low odds, the repeated high figure deposits and then high figure withdrawals to another method.

If everything you say is correct, I think you SHOULD complain to the LGA. Bear in mind, though, that the LGA is notoriously weak.

There are a couple of uncertainties:
(1) Your time line is still a little unclear. Were the lockings the result of the FIRST withdrawal request, or the SECOND deposit? Can you tell? From your opening posts, it sounded like you had made TWO withdrawals (one got processed, one didn't), but your recent posts seem to suggest otherwise.
(2) Did you actually RECEIVE a first wire from Betsson? (So, did they actually process one withdrawal to a different method than the deposit method?) If you did, you might be able to argue to the LGA/Betsson that you had a legitimate expectation that the second withdrawal would also be processed that way, otherwise, you would have requested it returned to C&B. If you never received any wire at all, then it looks like they locked it because of money laundering regulations in response to the first withdrawal request. But why they didn't just ask you to withdraw to C&B, I don't know. Unless C&B locked your account first? But then would Betsson even know that?

I'm trying to figure out what triggered the locking. You should try and pinpoint it yourself, so you can be very clear to the LGA.

To build on Toit's summary - here's my guess of what happened:
(1) You deposit at Betsson with C&B;
(2) You place a few bets at low odds at Betsson (which rollover the entire sum deposited at low odds?).
(3) You then apply to withdraw via wire (did you receive this money?);
(4) 1 hr later, you deposit more money to Betsson via C&B;
(5) You place a few more bets (which rollover the entire second sum deposited at low odds?);
(6) Before you can apply to withdraw any winnings, Betsson locks your account and C&B locks your account (who did it first?).

Very messy. Good luck!

In the future, you really shouldn't try to "wash" one payment provider's withdrawal restrictions through a sportsbook. Sportsbook's really don't like it. Euro books have money laundering legal regulations to comply with, so won't allow it that I've ever heard of (unless there are exceptional circumstances, eg. your credit card was stolen since you deposited, so they mail you a cheque) and I'm surprised that you say that other Euro books you play at have allowed it. (Why didn't you just "wash" the funds through the other books you say you've used for this, before, if that's the case?)

Betsson have obviously gone one step further than not allowing it, and seized the funds as well. I've never heard of that, which I suspect is why previous posters wonder if there's more to this.

[noyb]

Betsson normally is a very sensible company. Obviously, you would have never gotten away with the trick you wanted to pull, in using a book as a way to transfer funds, it's a guarantee for trouble. I can see based on your story why Betsson would lock your account and refuse to reopen it, but unless there's something you're not telling us, just keeping the money makes no sense. They owe you those funds.

In addition to the questions of the previous poster (I agree the William Hill story and a screenshot you might have send is irrelevant to the case), when did this happen? there's no chance the Betsson wire is underway and just hasn't hit your account yet?

Also, the reason for Click & Buy to lock your account remains vague to me. First of all, you claim they locked your account because they were "mad" with you for cancelling a withdrawal. This makes no sense at all.
Later you claim Click & Buy must have locked your account because Betsson asked them too. Possibly, but I still very much doubt it, what do Betsson care and why would Click & Buy do that without any evidence of wrongdoing (which according to you there isn't), also makes little sense to me. If you really have no idea, ask Click & Buy what's wrong.

On top of that, if there's nothing you're not telling us (for example, your Click & Buy-account in a fake name or wrong details, Betsson-account in a fake name or wrong details, or both, or something completely different) definitely file a complaint with the LGA altough you should prepare for a long wait. It would be great if SBR would be willing to enquire on your behalf, so if I were you I'd refile the complaint. To be honest, I still have a funny feeling we're missing some vital information here, sorry if i'm wrong.

[Toit]

Nice analysis, AimingHigh and noyb.

Still, it's not Betsson's money to keep methinks.

[fairplay]

AimingHigh: you got it right. both accounts at betsson and C&B were locked within minutes but my guess is that it happened on behalf of betsson. i asked the other companies i played with if there is anything wrong with my account and they denied it.
1) I made two deposits by C&B (from my bank account) to willhill
2) I won money at willhill and the wd was processed to my C&B account
3) I wanted to wd the money from C&B to my bank account but the operator informed me it could take 10 days to hit my bank account
4) I cancelled my wd from C&B and sent the money to several sportsbooks
5) I placed bets at several sportsbooks and asked them to wd by wire (all wds hit my bank account already)
6) I made a deposit with betsson by C&B
7) I placed a bet with betsson and asked for a wd by wire which was pending and has not been processed
8) Then i made another deposit - made some bets - asked for a wd by wire which has not been processed
9) Accounts at betsson and C&B got locked
10) C&B sent me my remaining balance at C&B to my bank account (the wire already hit my bank account)
11) Betsson asked for my id, utility bill, driving license - they received it by email
12) Betsson told me their risk and fraud dep checks my docs which is a routine procedure for new customers with higher volume
13) I left for my holidays
14) Betsson informed me that my account will stay closed
15) Betsson informed me that my account will stay closed and the money will remain in my account

Bank account at C&B and betsson are both the same. I am not sure why you accuse me of washing my money. I only wanted to avoit waiting 10 days for my money to hit my bank account. I wanted to receive it in time for my holidays so that i have some extra money to spend then. that was all. nordicbet, partybets, betfair - simply all three of these companies had no problems with what i did. it was just betsson.

I will file a complain with the LGA and send them proof of what i did. I hope that sbr can jump in and help me, too.

I know that my posts sounded weird but i was just getting home from my holidays on monday ( a short trip to croatia) and was somehow confused with the infos i got from betsson and my money being taken away from me.

Last but not least the money I sent to betsson were all from my winnings with willhill and the balance i had with C&B.

[fairplay]

Please tell me that they are kidding:

Thank you for your email to Betsson.



Yes the money is confiscated do to our rules and conditions, wich you accepted when you opened an account with us.

[Kladjo]

https://www.playresponsibly.org.mt/C...MFb_3ZwaX8846I
Try, maybe they can help you.

[DukeJohn]

Please tell me that they are kidding:

Thank you for your email to Betsson.



Yes the money is confiscated do to our rules and conditions, wich you accepted when you opened an account with us.

This has got to be so frustrating. Seems this place needs to be investigated to make sure it deserves it's C+ rating.

BoL,