[lasvegasjoshua]

does anyone else think that it is a conflict of interest that cantor gaming (m casino, hard rock, cosmo, tropicana, etc) also owns the las vegas sports consultants(people who make up the lines)? it doesnt make sense to me how a group setting the lines could also be taking a book too for this reason...

lets say i owned 5 or so major sportsbooks in las vegas and i was trying to monopolize the entire town. what better way to do that than to screw over the very people who pay for my service? all i would have to do is give them bad lines that i know the public would bet in to heavily and as the action comes into my books on those games i would dump them off to offshore or my competition. before you know it everyone wants me to buy them on my terms.

this may be a little far fetched. they would probably have to make it so 80% of the top ten college football teams covered through the first 7 weeks of the season. or if the super bowl champions covered all of their games through the 6th week of the season. or just in general if everyone square bettor hit every single parlay imaginable. oh wait.....

[gambleballs]

LVSC doesnt "Make the lines". They are exactly what their name implies. Consultants. The few books that still subscribe to LVSC make a decision on where to set their lines based off more than just LVSCs suggestion.

[lasvegasjoshua]

"In business since 1982, Las Vegas Sports Consultants, Inc. (LVSC), the world's largest oddsmaking company, blends online technology with personal service to provide odds and pointspreads to all major Las Vegas and international sports books. The LVSC consensus line remains the most valued commodity for sports gaming all over the world." this is taken off their website. they are def the originator

[gambleballs]

"In business since 1982, Las Vegas Sports Consultants, Inc. (LVSC), the world's largest oddsmaking company, blends online technology with personal service to provide odds and pointspreads to all major Las Vegas and international sports books. The LVSC consensus line remains the most valued commodity for sports gaming all over the world." this is taken off their website. they are def the originator

Because their website says so? I'll bet you there are less than 5 sportsbook groups in Las Vegas that still subscribe to a LVSC sendout for weekly lines.

[durito]

you think if a line is sitting at -5 offshore and lvsc sends out a bad line of -2 or whatever like you say that any book is really gonna post 2 instead of 5?

[lasvegasjoshua]

offshore and las vegas both use them to put out the original line guys. your right they are only consultants no one is forcing anyone to post a line. but EVERYONE relies on them to post an accurate opening line and an opinion on current lines. after that the only thing the will move the market is injuries and money. so of course if offshore goes to a different number everyone will follow. all im saying is ALL sportsbooks rely on them for spreads. believe it or not i dont care.

[laconic]

What are Cantor actually providing to these books?

Software, back office, risk, lines what ???

[lasvegasjoshua]

its basically opening lines, current lines, and a software that is kinda like donbest with numbers that associate their risk

[gambleballs]

Why the hell would any book pay for LVSC's opinion when they can just wait a couple hours after CRIS goes up, Copy their numbers and shade to the fav and over. This is the procedure in 95% of sportsbooks in town. You don't believe this then just watch the screen on Mondays.

Cantor bought LVSC for their name, their sportsscreen, and their data to assist them in their live betting modeling and such. Obviously they didn't care about any "originating" being done there since they cut Kenny White and others real quick.

[lasvegasjoshua]

them getting rid of white and company proves my point. thank you

[pimike]

you think if a line is sitting at -5 offshore and lvsc sends out a bad line of -2 or whatever like you say that any book is really gonna post 2 instead of 5?

[Trident]

Because their website says so? I'll bet you there are less than 5 sportsbook groups in Las Vegas that still subscribe to a LVSC sendout for weekly lines.

All sportsbooks in Nevada must use a licensed odds consultant such as LVSC or Sports Club and they can't use DonBest or any other line services since they aren't licensed in Nevada.

So how much do you want to bet.

[goblue12]

Cantor is basically the PinnacleSports of Vegas Books.

High limits, tough lines to beat.

[RickySteve]

Cantor is evil.

[byronbb]

"In business since 1982, Las Vegas Sports Consultants, Inc. (LVSC), the world's largest oddsmaking company, blends online technology with personal service to provide odds and pointspreads to all major Las Vegas and international sports books. The LVSC consensus line remains the most valued commodity for sports gaming all over the world." this is taken off their website. they are def the originator

Did they send out this opener for the Carolina-Boston game?

MONEYLINES
10/17 10:40 +165 / -180
10/17 10:42 +161 / -175
10/18 02:02 +158 / -172
10/18 07:12 +157 / -171
10/18 07:20 +154 / -167
10/18 07:26 +149 / -162
10/18 07:55 +148 / -161
10/18 08:05 +147 / -160
10/18 08:11 +144 / -156
10/18 10:44 +142 / -154
10/18 15:25 +140 / -152
10/18 16:03 +143 / -155
10/18 16:04 +137 / -149

[Inkwell77]

Cantor is basically the PinnacleSports of Vegas Books.

High limits, tough lines to beat.

Yep. Tough lines and usually different from the whole market. Right now Mich St is +7 while rest of Vegas is +8 or 8.5

[gambleballs]

All sportsbooks in Nevada must use a licensed odds consultant such as LVSC or Sports Club and they can't use DonBest or any other line services since they aren't licensed in Nevada.

So how much do you want to bet.

They certainly can and do use Don-Best. Lean over the counter and see what line service is pulled up on the Sup's comp. Some use LVSC's "SportsScreen" but a lot have DB still. DB's office is located in Vegas BTW.

[Leo Bello]

They certainly can and do use Don-Best. Lean over the counter and see what line service is pulled up on the Sup's comp. Some use LVSC's "SportsScreen" but a lot have DB still. DB's office is located in Vegas BTW.

Reading all of the posts, the ones written by 'gambleballs' are the most accurate. LVSC, formerly owned by the famous 'Roxy Roxborough,' was first bought out by a group that I think (not sure) included Kenny White. Roxy retired to Thailand, I believe. This group at that point provided lines to almost every Vegas book in the city, but as gambleballs stated it was just a starting point for them. But LVSC was respected for its integrity, longevity, and expertise (employed about 10-15 very respected linesmakers with no ties or 'leans' toward any sportbook in Nevada). This 'status quo' probably would have remained that way until this day, but then Cantor Gaming entered the picture and offered an interesting scenario to the casinos: Discard that lousy sportsbook that you hate anyway and eliminate its considerable overhead and periodic losing streaks and lease it to us, and we will grant you 'x' amount of dollars and new mobile technology and keep your players at your establishment and you will have your cake and eat it too. It sounded like a good deal, and many casinos have signed up.

Now Las Vegas Sports Consultants had been making odds for a long, long time. They had databases, expertise, and information that was useful to Cantor Gaming, and therefore they made an offer which was accepted by LVSC and they sold out to Cantor. Plus about this time the Gambling Control Board started making noises about LVSC being a 'conflict of interest,' but of course the other sportsbooks did not have to be told that the lines LVSC would be putting out would no longer be independent and would be answerable to Cantor Gaming, so most of them dropped their exclusive use of LVSC.

While it could be open for debate, I think most would agree that the lines today mostly originate offshore, but I think Nevada has to at least ostensibly look at services licensed in Nevada, but look at any supervisor's computer screen and you will see they all subscribe to Don Best as well to at least see which way the wind is blowing throughout the industry. I saw one screen and was curious as to what opening lines the one I saw was using and I saw Pinnacle and CRIS as the two opening lines Richie Baccelleri was using (no state secret). And Gambleballs was right-on when he said guys like Kenny White and others left LVSC when Cantor Gaming bought them out.

I may have some things wrong, but I think for the most part what I wrote is correct. I'd like to learn more on the matter, however, so please feel free to chime in.

[golfbet]

Cantor never be the first to open lines of any sports in Vegas.
They never open the line until Pinnacle opens.
Sometimes Arizona Charlie opens earlier than them.
It is understandable by seeing South Point open before Pinnacle opens and **** up from time to time.
Usually Cantor move the line most if there are line move.
So if you want to fade the steam at close they tend to have best price.

[Inkwell77]

Cantor never be the first to open lines of any sports in Vegas.
They never open the line until Pinnacle opens.
Sometimes Arizona Charlie opens earlier than them.
It is understandable by seeing South Point open before Pinnacle opens and **** up from time to time.
Usually Cantor move the line most if there are line move.
So if you want to fade the steam at close they tend to have best price.

They did put up every single NFL line in June or July so this is not really true.