[Microphone]

Agree with Bill & Dark Horse here....there was no risk here.

I can't wait until the next "is online blackjack or are online casinos rigged" thread is posted at SBR andthe same people who are bashing this decision will be telling you they are rigged and to stay clear of online sportsbook casinos. Online casino issues are not a new revelation and I find it hard to believe most posters here are not aware of that.

[Kooko4kookopuffs]

I think Easystreet deserves an upgrade now.

[KGambler]

lol, Gonzo. What did you expose? That I don't take people very serious who believe the shot taker should be paid, while playing at an advantage that would have rung up 13 billion US dollars in 6 hours of play?

Dark Horse, the machines have a bet limit. If this machine is typical for 5Dimes, you can wager a max of $25 per spin. Once he reached the point he was comfortable betting $25 per spin, he could have won about $1M per day (24 hours of play). His balance would not have continued to increase exponentially.

[pokerplayer22]

Yea he bet on an MMA event in there. It doesn't play into the facts but likely would have lead to nicer finders fee for the player had he been a customer or played in the casino before. Tony knows the player isn't interested in betting sports there and only deposited to use the atm.

Bill...how can all these 5dimes disputes not even be listed on the 5dimes review page. The last thing that show up on there is about the website being down a few weeks ago. Thats a little ridiculous.

[kero214]

tony is a smart guy. Brag that you offer player advantage games then claim it's an error anytime someone beats you up. Amazing business model!

bingo!!!

[kero214]

So who trusts 5dimes as much the Greek and DSI?

[in play, run(s)]

I don't get how most people agree that past-posting or betting bad lines is shady practice and shouldn't be honored, but in turn think it's OK to exploit a mistake like this.

[clowncar]

I would think any wager you make is a wager you believe to be plus EV, what is the difference there? You are just arguing over degree of advantage.

[Salamander]

You might have saved 5D a bunch of money by jumping in the game cannonball style. Had other players identified the game and gone all-in and mixed up their play, it would have been an expensive month for them.

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
lol lol lol lol lol lol lol


Mr. Dozer giving you some advice for next time.

[BigFish]

Bill...how can all these 5dimes disputes not even be listed on the 5dimes review page. The last thing that show up on there is about the website being down a few weeks ago. Thats a little ridiculous.

Bill: I'm not jumping on the "SBR won't rule against its sponsors" bandwagon just yet, but I think PP22 has a really good point here. Regardless of the outcome of the disputes, or how SBR ruled, players searching for information on 5Dimes (or any other shop) on this site should be given all relevant info, so that they can make an informed decision on whether to play there. To leave the A+ rating up is SBR's own decision, based upon SBR's rating guidelines, and I can live with that; but to leave these recent disputes out of the 5Dimes review page smacks of disingenuousness to me.

Am I wrong?

[RickySteve]

I have no clue who the head manager is at any of the other A+ books is but there is a reason every poster, who even lightly follows the industry, knows who is in charge at 5dimes... While I don't think this knowledge has to bad thing, (I'm thinking of Jay at WSEX (when they were still actually considered a decent book) and Blackie), some basic level of professionalism has to be expected from A+ books... I been booted or been denied future promotions at couple books but never have I received a reception that comes with the process at 5dimes...

If those two scumbags are your definition of integrity, you need to post less and study more.

You've never heard of Mickey or Spiro?

[BigFish]

I would think any wager you make is a wager you believe to be plus EV, what is the difference there? You are just arguing over degree of advantage.

Exactly! Occasionally I make a sports wager at a particular line that is offered, knowing that the line will be much different by game time, thus I'm making a +EV wager. If I choose to, I can even take the other side for an arb, i.e., guaranteed profit before the game even starts -- without my funds being at risk. Many others on this forum do the same. At some point, as Clowncar points out, you're just distinguishing between varying degrees of player advantage that have been achieved.

That said, I don't think what Bill and Dark Horse have espoused (obvious error/bad line analogy) are crazy either. The fact of the matter is that this particular scenario isn't exactly like any of the other scenarios that posters have offered in comparison. It's not the same as my example above, nor is it the same as the much-discussed "bad line" situation in a sports book. This one is unique. I can live with the player not getting the full $32K here, under these unique circumstances (but he should've received something more than the silly free-play.).

My more serious concern is with the potential precedential weight this outcome may carry, and what it might portend for the future if applied to other gambling scenarios and disputes.

[Tackleberry]

Do you know how many total deposits he had, or the longest stretch of inactivity? Also, I'm not sure that losing 'several hundred' dollars constitutes a lifetime loss of less than $450. It's interesting to see a pro angler angle you hook, line, and sinker. =)

Lou,

I don't fully understand what you are trying to imply other than you are coming to the defense of your peer which is understandable. Be direct, I have been I think SBR should do the same.

I have to say I am more dissapointed in a few ways that SBR choose to handle this case more than I am in the actual outcome. Bill's intial post included some factual errors that painted me in a certain light. I believe this happended because 5Dimes gave SBR these "facts" and SBR took as true without any fact checking. I believe this because in my final live chat with Tony he even started off by claiming I had only ever made one previous deposit back in 2008, he went on to contradict himself later on in the conversation. I would have greatly appreciated if these issues were mentioned as factors in the case in one of phone conversations we had so that I could correct the misleading errors before they were posted as if they were facts.

This will be my last post in this thread and on this topic, if anyone has any specifc questions they can send me a pm

[WVU]

there you have it. Misleading information with the intent to cast the player in a negative light and to defend the book. It seems neither Lou nor Bill had the correct information but ran with it anyway with the caveat that it didn't affect the dispute outcome.

[Tackleberry]

there you have it. Misleading information with the intent to cast the player in a negative light and to defend the book. It seems neither Lou nor Bill had the correct information but ran with it anyway with the caveat that it didn't affect the dispute outcome.

ok now seriously last post. I am going to say that I don't believe Bill purposefully mislead people with what he posted. I think he posted what he was told was the truth and no one at SBR fully did their job to confirm that all of the facts were true. Most of them were true or at least mostly true.

[topgame85]

The fact remains that although this may have been an "ATM" the player did absolutley nothing to turn it into an ATM their own incompetence made it one and 2. if having an edge makes it an ATM then the casino is always just an ATM for the book, which is preety much the reality of it, and that does not stop them from collecting as much $ as someone is willing to send through the games. Players play "rigged" -ev casino games daily and books make fortunes off them, for once someone realized the tables were turned and got retribution for millions players lose playing games they mathematically can not win long term and the book decided to steal the winning. End of story. This was a heist by 5D. Everyone on this forums always say a book remains a stiff until all previous claims have been paid and to shall 5D remain a stiff until this player is paid in full.

[SBR Lou]

Lou, I don't fully understand what you are trying to imply other than you are coming to the defense of your peer which is understandable.

The quote you took issue with was —

"As Tackle says, he deposited $50 after years of inactivity and learning the payout was in the neighborhood of 390%."

In bills statement he says I had years on inactivity, this is not completely accurate. My play with 5Dimes was certainly not consistent but my last deposit was in Feb of 2011.

According to 5Dimes, you deposited in 2008 to past-post horse wagers then busted out, then later in 2011 redeposited. The time in-between would constitute years of inactivity, unless we are just having a difference in semantics here.

My post was simply to clarify that one point. I think everyone appreciates how candid you were throughout the process.

[Mastertvtech]

A downgrade is in order regardless of this outcome. Doesn't their F rated casino drop their A Sportsbook down to at least a C?

[topgame85]

The fact remains that although this may have been an "ATM" the player did absolutley nothing to turn it into an ATM their own incompetence made it one and 2. if having an edge makes it an ATM then the casino is always just an ATM for the book, which is preety much the reality of it, and that does not stop them from collecting as much $ as someone is willing to send through the games. Players play "rigged" -ev casino games daily and books make fortunes off them, for once someone realized the tables were turned and got retribution for millions players lose playing games they mathematically can not win long term and the book decided to steal the winning. End of story. This was a heist by 5D. Everyone on this forums always say a book remains a stiff until all previous claims have been paid and to shall 5D remain a stiff until this player is paid in full.

To add on to my own thoughts, as many have mentioned when books are supposed to pay 90% and pay less there is no way for the player to tell and gets slaughtered. Also what if a casino game is supposed to pay 95% and it is paying 98% and the player does not know that and just continues tp play losing 2% can the book later come back in and add to his losses by removing funds taking the extra 3% of what he "should have lost at 95%" payout because they game was paying 98%? The whole thing is a slippery slope and the only right thing and way to keep the status quo of you play and win you get paid you lose we keep your funds is FULL PAYMENT!

[Tackleberry]

The quote you took issue with was — "As Tackle says, he deposited $50 after years of inactivity and learning the payout was in the neighborhood of 390%." According to 5Dimes, you deposited in 2008 to past-post horse wagers then busted out, then later in 2011 redeposited. The time in-between would constitute years of inactivity, unless we are just having a difference in semantics here. My post was simply to clarify that one point. I think everyone appreciates how candid you were throughout the process.

I had made many bets before the past post issue, my intial deposit with 5Dimes was never with the sole intention of past posting. There were other deposits between 2008 and feb 2011, I just mentioned the most recent one. Again SBR did not do their job to actually get all of the cold hard facts, sad.

[Landmark95]

I only play sports, so this act of thievery on behalf of a player whose sole motivation was to take free money on an obvious casino programming flaw, does not in anyway tarnish the reputation of an A+ sportsbook that has withstood the test of time, and still offers it's players many betting options and payouts. Tell me, how many times in 5Dimes history has a player not been paid from the sportsbook?

"Hackers" do serve a useful purpose in our technological world. To that end, the player should get his $50 back as a "thank you" for exposing this flaw. The argument that had the player "lost", he wouldn't have gotten his money back is a farce, because he never posted the money with any intention of "risk". Of course had he tried this in Vegas, he would not be entitled to a refund, only a city-style beating in the backroom at Binion's. Had he tried something like this in Philly, he would have been found stuffed into the Liberty Bell. Had he tried a cute move like this in NYC; we're talking face down in the marsh outside of JFK airport. Sadly, the offshores cannot offer such remedies in the fine print of their bonus offerings.

For those of you who actually defend this creep, would you be as angry if the cops chase a bank robber down the street, and when catching him five blocks away, the first thing they do is take the money he stole away from him?

A fair game is a fair game. Plunk your money down on the table. Roll those dice, deals those cards, or let the sports match begin. Whatever the result is, the house will always be happy to pay you, because you called the result before the event happened. Not very easy to do consistently. Try it sometime. Of course, I'm speaking here to the 5% of the posters who actually have a pair, who know what it means to have money at risk, and just how difficult predicting the future can be. Not the 95% of the gutless wonders here, who actually defend this pukeface thief, as if there is even a scintilla of a chance he could possibly be entitled to anything.

a) Refund the player's deposit.
b) The thief does not get one penny of "winnings".
c) 5Dimes retains it's well-deserved A+ rating.
d) A warning is served to future thiefs.
e) Posters defending Thief must reassess their lives, (and if they can find a reason why God created them,
it will most certainly be a story as far-fetched as to why this thief should be paid.)

Disclosure: I have been a player with 5Dimes in the past, and fully intend to re-up in the next couple of months.
I have worked in the industry previously, and my book went through a similar casino extortion in 2001.
I am a yankee currently not employed in the industry.

Mr. Moderator, I consider this post to be the final word on this "alleged" complaint. You may now feel free to close this thread and all others related to this farce perpetrated by an out-and-out thief.

[johnster]

The player's activity when he was last active included 5 past-posted horse bets that he conceded to.

and we have here "mediator" who can't even check when player was last time active

[cyberinvestor]

(and if they can find a reason why God created them, it will most certainly be a story as far-fetched as to why this thief should be paid.)

Mr. Moderator, I consider this post to be the final word on this "alleged" complaint. You may now feel free to close this thread and all others related to this farce perpetrated by an out-and-out thief.

Damn, I cannot wait to see your upcoming posts. You had me cracking up with these two statements.

[kero214]

I only play sports, so this act of thievery on behalf of a player whose sole motivation was to take free money on an obvious casino programming flaw, does not in anyway tarnish the reputation of an A+ sportsbook that has withstood the test of time, and still offers it's players many betting options and payouts. Tell me, how many times in 5Dimes history has a player not been paid from the sportsbook?

"Hackers" do serve a useful purpose in our technological world. To that end, the player should get his $50 back as a "thank you" for exposing this flaw. The argument that had the player "lost", he wouldn't have gotten his money back is a farce, because he never posted the money with any intention of "risk". Of course had he tried this in Vegas, he would not be entitled to a refund, only a city-style beating in the backroom at Binion's. Had he tried something like this in Philly, he would have been found stuffed into the Liberty Bell. Had he tried a cute move like this in NYC; we're talking face down in the marsh outside of JFK airport. Sadly, the offshores cannot offer such remedies in the fine print of their bonus offerings.

For those of you who actually defend this creep, would you be as angry if the cops chase a bank robber down the street, and when catching him five blocks away, the first thing they do is take the money he stole away from him?

A fair game is a fair game. Plunk your money down on the table. Roll those dice, deals those cards, or let the sports match begin. Whatever the result is, the house will always be happy to pay you, because you called the result before the event happened. Not very easy to do consistently. Try it sometime. Of course, I'm speaking here to the 5% of the posters who actually have a pair, who know what it means to have money at risk, and just how difficult predicting the future can be. Not the 95% of the gutless wonders here, who actually defend this pukeface thief, as if there is even a scintilla of a chance he could possibly be entitled to anything.

a) Refund the player's deposit.
b) The thief does not get one penny of "winnings".
c) 5Dimes retains it's well-deserved A+ rating.
d) A warning is served to future thiefs.
e) Posters defending Thief must reassess their lives, (and if they can find a reason why God created them,
it will most certainly be a story as far-fetched as to why this thief should be paid.)

Disclosure: I have been a player with 5Dimes in the past, and fully intend to re-up in the next couple of months.
I have worked in the industry previously, and my book went through a similar casino extortion in 2001.
I am a yankee currently not employed in the industry.

Mr. Moderator, I consider this post to be the final word on this "alleged" complaint. You may now feel free to close this thread and all others related to this farce perpetrated by an out-and-out thief.

Shut The Fucc Up Shill!

[clowncar]

He isn't a thief. If he is a thief then anyone playing at positive EV is a thief. That means except for the extremely rare cases the bet is exactly equal to both sides, there is a thief in your mind. Your entire post lacks logic, landmark. From your first contention to your last contention. He would not have been beaten in las vegas and he would likely not have been in need of a refund to feel entitled to one.

I really enjoy the logic of him being a creep while someone else stuffs him into the liberty bell or kills him. Way to back murderers and violent criminals!

Your correlation to him being a bank robber is ridiculous on its face.

Your post is an abortion to rational thought.

[pokerplayer22]

I only play sports, so this act of thievery on behalf of a player whose sole motivation was to take free money on an obvious casino programming flaw, does not in anyway tarnish the reputation of an A+ sportsbook that has withstood the test of time, and still offers it's players many betting options and payouts. Tell me, how many times in 5Dimes history has a player not been paid from the sportsbook?

"Hackers" do serve a useful purpose in our technological world. To that end, the player should get his $50 back as a "thank you" for exposing this flaw. The argument that had the player "lost", he wouldn't have gotten his money back is a farce, because he never posted the money with any intention of "risk". Of course had he tried this in Vegas, he would not be entitled to a refund, only a city-style beating in the backroom at Binion's. Had he tried something like this in Philly, he would have been found stuffed into the Liberty Bell. Had he tried a cute move like this in NYC; we're talking face down in the marsh outside of JFK airport. Sadly, the offshores cannot offer such remedies in the fine print of their bonus offerings.

For those of you who actually defend this creep, would you be as angry if the cops chase a bank robber down the street, and when catching him five blocks away, the first thing they do is take the money he stole away from him?

A fair game is a fair game. Plunk your money down on the table. Roll those dice, deals those cards, or let the sports match begin. Whatever the result is, the house will always be happy to pay you, because you called the result before the event happened. Not very easy to do consistently. Try it sometime. Of course, I'm speaking here to the 5% of the posters who actually have a pair, who know what it means to have money at risk, and just how difficult predicting the future can be. Not the 95% of the gutless wonders here, who actually defend this pukeface thief, as if there is even a scintilla of a chance he could possibly be entitled to anything.

a) Refund the player's deposit.
b) The thief does not get one penny of "winnings".
c) 5Dimes retains it's well-deserved A+ rating.
d) A warning is served to future thiefs.
e) Posters defending Thief must reassess their lives, (and if they can find a reason why God created them,
it will most certainly be a story as far-fetched as to why this thief should be paid.)

Disclosure: I have been a player with 5Dimes in the past, and fully intend to re-up in the next couple of months.
I have worked in the industry previously, and my book went through a similar casino extortion in 2001.
I am a yankee currently not employed in the industry.

Mr. Moderator, I consider this post to be the final word on this "alleged" complaint. You may now feel free to close this thread and all others related to this farce perpetrated by an out-and-out thief.

LOL...I didnt realize we had Mother Theresa in our presence. Its a pleasure to meet you.

This post sounds like its coming from Tony's cousin

[kero214]

LOL...I didnt realize we had Mother Theresa in our presence. Its a pleasure to meet you.

This post sounds like its coming from Tony's cousin

No doubt it is either Tony or someone on his Payroll. I can tell this from reading Tony's chat sessions.

[Jim Morrison]

I only play sports, so this act of thievery on behalf of a player whose sole motivation was to take free money on an obvious casino programming flaw

An obvious programming flaw is if they offered standard games and somehow programmed Jacks or Better to pay 10x the standard pay table. 5 Dimes bonus casino brags about their unique games and that some games are even player advantage. HOW THE **** IS THIS A PROGRAMMING FLAW? THIS IS AN IDIOT (TONY) WHO FAILED MATH WHO PUT IN AN AWFUL GAME AND GOT NAILED ON IT! Anyone who can't see this is a mental midget.

[wiffle]

I only play sports, so this act of thievery on behalf of a player whose sole motivation was to take free money on an obvious casino programming flaw, does not in anyway tarnish the reputation of an A+ sportsbook that has withstood the test of time, and still offers it's players many betting options and payouts. Tell me, how many times in 5Dimes history has a player not been paid from the sportsbook?

"Hackers" do serve a useful purpose in our technological world. To that end, the player should get his $50 back as a "thank you" for exposing this flaw. The argument that had the player "lost", he wouldn't have gotten his money back is a farce, because he never posted the money with any intention of "risk". Of course had he tried this in Vegas, he would not be entitled to a refund, only a city-style beating in the backroom at Binion's. Had he tried something like this in Philly, he would have been found stuffed into the Liberty Bell. Had he tried a cute move like this in NYC; we're talking face down in the marsh outside of JFK airport. Sadly, the offshores cannot offer such remedies in the fine print of their bonus offerings.

For those of you who actually defend this creep, would you be as angry if the cops chase a bank robber down the street, and when catching him five blocks away, the first thing they do is take the money he stole away from him?

A fair game is a fair game. Plunk your money down on the table. Roll those dice, deals those cards, or let the sports match begin. Whatever the result is, the house will always be happy to pay you, because you called the result before the event happened. Not very easy to do consistently. Try it sometime. Of course, I'm speaking here to the 5% of the posters who actually have a pair, who know what it means to have money at risk, and just how difficult predicting the future can be. Not the 95% of the gutless wonders here, who actually defend this pukeface thief, as if there is even a scintilla of a chance he could possibly be entitled to anything.

a) Refund the player's deposit.
b) The thief does not get one penny of "winnings".
c) 5Dimes retains it's well-deserved A+ rating.
d) A warning is served to future thiefs.
e) Posters defending Thief must reassess their lives, (and if they can find a reason why God created them,
it will most certainly be a story as far-fetched as to why this thief should be paid.)

Disclosure: I have been a player with 5Dimes in the past, and fully intend to re-up in the next couple of months.
I have worked in the industry previously, and my book went through a similar casino extortion in 2001.
I am a yankee currently not employed in the industry.

Mr. Moderator, I consider this post to be the final word on this "alleged" complaint. You may now feel free to close this thread and all others related to this farce perpetrated by an out-and-out thief.

hi tony, how's it going

[NobodyUKnow]

You have to give Landmark some credit...that kind of blatant ignorance is not seen that often....wait, I'm posting on a gambling forum about someone disputing a casino issue! Who the hell cares about ignorance?

First, calling Tackleberry a "thief" is as stupid as you saying this was a "programming error," especially since you later claim that you "worked in the industry" which means you either are A) lying or B) are totally ignorant about what a programming error is and what human incompetence who inputted the paytables is

It's also highly amusing how you think some player with money is going to get beat down in Las Vegas, Filthydelphia or anywhere else for "trying this." Yes, it happens all the time...player goes into a North American casino and starts inserting coins, wins, and gets beaten up for cheating the casino for their own errors. Just how detached are you from reality, especially as it relates to regulated casinos in the USA?

I'm sure tony is happy that his pro rasslin' persona makes you happy enough to re-up despite showing he has little business sense and the complaints are starting to make intelligent people question this company's overall operations.

I thought it was hilarious several years ago when people were dumping dirty e-gold through 5Dimes and laundering it out the other side with non-egold payouts and disussing it openly as a great place to do so, but it was even more amusing that while e-gold was going down hard before they got busted and anyone following the digital gold currency biz knew they were dead meat that 5Dimes had no problem taking those e-gold deposits. Hmmmm.

[lt56]

I had made many bets before the past post issue, my intial deposit with 5Dimes was never with the sole intention of past posting. There were other deposits between 2008 and feb 2011, I just mentioned the most recent one. Again SBR did not do their job to actually get all of the cold hard facts, sad.

tackleberry; you remind of the Wall Street bankers who politely rob people and then use sideshows and diversions to avoid talking about the main issue; which was that you saw an obvious mistake and tried to rob a great sportsbook of $32K. You saw an obvious mistake but got greedy. Instead of being decent and getting a few free plays from a simple phone call to 5Dimes as a heads up for them about the mistake; you tried to take them for $32K. What you did is wrong and the reason you'll disappear for good soon is because you have 90% of the people here conned with your sad, polite act; while only a few can see through your bs.

[soxwin1917]

It's funny how people rip on SBR like they're paying for their service. SBR is not your attorney.

[Jim Morrison]

It's funny how people rip on SBR like they're paying for their service. SBR is not your attorney.

No but SBR offers to mediate disputes. It's funny but some people expect an impartial mediator. Not one who overlooks rogue behavior as long as the envelope of money arrives every month. We already have Casinomeister for that. I guess I thought better of SBR.

[Stefan]

I can't understand how somebody can think that a player who takes advantage of a big mistake can keep his winnings. That would be a slap for all honest players.

If you want to compare it with a bad line in sports betting, then it would be a +680 on both sides of a 2 way wager. Who can really think that a player who bets on both sides of this wager can keep his winnings. This has nothing to do with searching a wager with +EV.

[topgame85]

I still don't understand how people act like a normal casino game is "fair" and no one takes advantage, the game is never fair and the casino is the one taking advantage! The house is always set at a percentage to destroy the player long term with the exception of an error like this. The game is never set at 100% payout and sometimes it just so happens people go on bad runs and lose and sometimes people go on good streaks and win, that is not the way it works. People play these stupid games for hours every day knowing by looking at payout charts they WILL lose a fortune if they play long term yet for whatever reason they choose to play anyways, TB looked at the payout chart and saw he could hammer them and chose to play. The entire point of the payout chart is to let the player know expected return and how the game will pay. It is not the players job to regulate the operators game, merely to view the game offered and decide whether or not to choose if he wishes to play at the odds being offered. To Tony aka landmark the player here is not the one that would end up on a milk carton in most places its the person who OWED the money, as 5D does and always will if they don't pay out. Funny that your perception of the world is the one who gets robbed of winnings is also the one who should have harm done to them. I guess you are one of those sick fcks who thinks after someone holds up a liquor store they should shoot the clerk on the way out even after they have committed the robbery and could walk away clean. Pathetic and disturbing.