[Alfa1234]

Placed 2 bets for "under 5.5 cards" on the Espanyol VS Barcelona game. Espanyol got 2 yellows. De Jong from Barcelona got 2 yellows resulting in a red card. There were no other cards given.

Both bets got graded as lost. Sent them a mail.

This is what Tiger gaming said;

"The reason of this email is to inform you that we have reviewed his claim regarding the ticket wager 463113360 and 463113340 both made under the following line market Espanyol vs Barcelona - Total Cards - Under +5½ Cards, however be aware that Yellow Card equals to 1, a Red Card equals to 2 / One Yellow and a Red will be consider 3 / 2 for last a Yellow and a Red will equal to 3 and during this game there were 3 yellow single cards display and Yellow and a Red which will makes a total of 6 cards within the game fact that makes the wager to be graded correctly as loss."

Pinnacle rules:
https://gyazo.com/25cbb711a00764660c5a3812e97ea89f
Betfair rules:
https://gyazo.com/06d960bccd419af24e451f3b1f228432

Has anyone else ever heard of counting cards this way?

I think they have made a mistake as all bookies I use and know grade 2 yellow cards resulting in a red either as 3 cards or 2 cards. What do you think?

I should clarify there is nothing stipulated in their rules about cards/bookings grading.

[Optional]

Yes, I think they have a mistake too.

That card count should be 5 total.

Please shoot in a complaint form and we will ask a manager to re-check this one for you.

[Alfa1234]

Done, thanks Optional!

[newton0038]

Pinnacle rules it would be 6. de Jong yellow and red =3 pts.

Betfair says 2 cards MAX for any player.


Pinny=6

Betfair =5


Tiger must be using Pinny rules in this case Know anyone that lost the over 5.5 by Tiger using Betfair rules on them.

A book should never offer a line on a prop or event they have no resolution rules in place for.

[Optional]

Pinnacle rules it would be 6. de Jong yellow and red =3 pts.

Betfair says 2 cards MAX for any player.


Pinny=6

Betfair =5


Tiger must be using Pinny rules in this case Know anyone that lost the over 5.5 by Tiger using Betfair rules on them.

A book should never offer a line on a prop or event they have no resolution rules in place for.

That is not correct.

Here is Pinny rules. Pinnacle would count this as 5 cards

[Alfa1234]

Exactly Optional. Pinnacle it would be 5 (De Jong 3 and Espanyol 2) and Betfair rules it would be 4. Never 6.

[ichiro4thehall]

I agree that Alfa won this bet.

Only thing I can think of is the way referees send off players with 2 yellow cards. They show the player the second yellow card to indicate his second foul was a yellow card offence, then they show the player a red card to indicate he is being sent off due to 2 yellow cards. Thus they could be arguing(to scam you) that the referee did show 4 yellow cards and 1 red and thus your bet is a loser.

Personally, I've always avoided TigerGaming but had heard better things about them recently. This proves it's best to avoid them still.

[cashin81]

its def 5 cards total. one player cant get more than 3 cards.

i suppose 4 makes more sense because he was shown 2 yellows and a red = 4, but b365 dont do it that way, i dont think anywhere gives 4 to one player.

[semibluff]

Books have the right to make up any crazy rule they like so long as it's in print before the customer makes a wager and the book applies it evenly and fairly. The book is entitled to write the rule where a 1st yellow is 1 point, a straight red is 2 points, and a 2nd yellow is 3 points, (1 for the yellow and 2 for the red that inevitably follows it), but treating a 2nd yellow as worse than a straight red would be a crazy rule.

[*** Disclaimer - I haven't read the rule as written for this book. ***]

The maximum cards for a player ought to be 3, (1 for a yellow and 2 for a more serious straight red card offence committed later on after receiving a yellow). I could understand treating a 2nd yellow as a 1 point or 1.5 point offence. I could justify it being treated as 2 points, (equal to a straight red following an earlier yellow)...but nothing more than that.

I would have thought the card total for this game was 4 or 5 depending on the wording of rule, (a total in between would have made the most sense). I would expect Alfa1234's bet to be a winner with the book misinterpreting a poorly written prop-bet rule. If it is a crazy rule then the bet is settled correctly, but the book should be asked to re-think their rule for the future, (and consider a discretionary pay-out).

[lonnie55]

It's pretty easy to argue why they made a mistake: A 2nd yellow card for the same player DOES NOT COUNT as a yellow card for the statistics! Neither official nor unofficial statistics, you won't find any site on the internet which lists 3 total yellow cards for Frenkie de Jong (he received a yellow card on matchday 3 against Osasuna)

1st yellow card
2nd yellow card "replaced" by a red card

So it's 1 point for the 1st yellow card + 1 point for the 2nd yellow card (-> DOES NOT COUNT) + 2 points for the red card = 3 points

One Yellow and a Red will be consider 3 / 2 for last a Yellow and a Red will equal to 3

That's completely illogical. It's way more likely that a player receives a (2nd) yellow card than a straight red card. Subsequently, their line should have been higher than at any other place (I guess it's pretty much the same). There wouldn't be one reason to bet the under at Tigergaming. Instead, everyone should exploit their illogical rules and constantly bet the over.

I would love to see a case where someone bet the over (in this or another game) where the yellow-red card counted as 3 points.

[Optional]

At least this thread is a good example of how easily it is for a grader to make an error with this market.



I cannot find sport specific rules talking about how cards are counted on either Tigergaming or BOL websites.

This appears to be the most relevant rule I can find (on BOL)

"Any prop bets such as number of corners, yellow cards or first goalscorer will be settled according to information on the official website of the relevant league or competition."


Official stats say he received one yellow card and one red card for this game.

Games played by Frenkie De Jong in 2019/2020 Choose another season2019/20202018/20192017/20182016/20172015/20162014/2015
						GLS	YEL	RED
SPANISH LA LIGA	Fr 16Aug 2019		Ath Bilbao	1 - 0	Barcelona
SPANISH LA LIGA	Su 25Aug 2019		Barcelona	5 - 2	Real Betis
SPANISH LA LIGA	Sa 31Aug 2019		Osasuna	2 - 2	Barcelona
EUROPEAN CHAMPIONSHIPS	Fr 06Sep 2019		Germany	2 - 4	Holland	1
EUROPEAN CHAMPIONSHIPS	Mo 09Sep 2019		Estonia	0 - 4	Holland
SPANISH LA LIGA	Sa 14Sep 2019		Barcelona	5 - 2	Valencia	1
CHAMPIONS LEAGUE	Tu 17Sep 2019		B Dortmund	0 - 0	Barcelona
SPANISH LA LIGA	Sa 21Sep 2019		Granada	2 - 0	Barcelona
SPANISH LA LIGA	Tu 24Sep 2019		Barcelona	2 - 1	Villarreal
SPANISH LA LIGA	Sa 28Sep 2019		Getafe	0 - 2	Barcelona
CHAMPIONS LEAGUE	We 02Oct 2019		Barcelona	2 - 1	Inter
SPANISH LA LIGA	Su 06Oct 2019		Barcelona	4 - 0	Sevilla
EUROPEAN CHAMPIONSHIPS	Th 10Oct 2019		Holland	3 - 1	N Ireland
EUROPEAN CHAMPIONSHIPS	Su 13Oct 2019		Belarus	1 - 2	Holland
SPANISH LA LIGA	Sa 19Oct 2019		Eibar	0 - 3	Barcelona
CHAMPIONS LEAGUE	We 23Oct 2019		Slavia Prague	1 - 2	Barcelona
SPANISH LA LIGA	Tu 29Oct 2019		Barcelona	5 - 1	Valladolid
SPANISH LA LIGA	Sa 02Nov 2019		Levante	3 - 1	Barcelona
CHAMPIONS LEAGUE	Tu 05Nov 2019		Barcelona	0 - 0	Slavia Prague
SPANISH LA LIGA	Sa 09Nov 2019		Barcelona	4 - 1	Celta Vigo
EUROPEAN CHAMPIONSHIPS	Sa 16Nov 2019		N Ireland	0 - 0	Holland
EUROPEAN CHAMPIONSHIPS	Tu 19Nov 2019	N	Holland	5 - 0	Estonia
SPANISH LA LIGA	Sa 23Nov 2019		Leganes	1 - 2	Barcelona
CHAMPIONS LEAGUE	We 27Nov 2019		Barcelona	3 - 1	B Dortmund
SPANISH LA LIGA	Su 01Dec 2019		Atl Madrid	0 - 1	Barcelona
SPANISH LA LIGA	Sa 07Dec 2019		Barcelona	5 - 2	Mallorca
CHAMPIONS LEAGUE	Tu 10Dec 2019		Inter	1 - 2	Barcelona
SPANISH LA LIGA	Sa 14Dec 2019		Sociedad	2 - 2	Barcelona
SPANISH LA LIGA	We 18Dec 2019		Barcelona	0 - 0	Real Madrid
SPANISH LA LIGA	Sa 21Dec 2019		Barcelona	4 - 1	Alaves
SPANISH LA LIGA	Sa 04Jan 2020		Espanyol	2 - 2	Barcelona

Appearances:31Totals:

2

3

1

[Alfa1234]

At least this thread is a good example of how easily it is for a grader to make an error with this market.



I cannot find sport specific rules talking about how cards are counted on either Tigergaming or BOL websites.

This appears to be the most relevant rule I can find (on BOL)

"Any prop bets such as number of corners, yellow cards or first goalscorer will be settled according to information on the official website of the relevant league or competition."


Official stats say he received one yellow card and one red card for this game.

Games played by Frenkie De Jong in 2019/2020 Choose another season2019/20202018/20192017/20182016/20172015/20162014/2015
						GLS	YEL	RED
SPANISH LA LIGA	Fr 16Aug 2019		Ath Bilbao	1 - 0	Barcelona
SPANISH LA LIGA	Su 25Aug 2019		Barcelona	5 - 2	Real Betis
SPANISH LA LIGA	Sa 31Aug 2019		Osasuna	2 - 2	Barcelona
EUROPEAN CHAMPIONSHIPS	Fr 06Sep 2019		Germany	2 - 4	Holland	1
EUROPEAN CHAMPIONSHIPS	Mo 09Sep 2019		Estonia	0 - 4	Holland
SPANISH LA LIGA	Sa 14Sep 2019		Barcelona	5 - 2	Valencia	1
CHAMPIONS LEAGUE	Tu 17Sep 2019		B Dortmund	0 - 0	Barcelona
SPANISH LA LIGA	Sa 21Sep 2019		Granada	2 - 0	Barcelona
SPANISH LA LIGA	Tu 24Sep 2019		Barcelona	2 - 1	Villarreal
SPANISH LA LIGA	Sa 28Sep 2019		Getafe	0 - 2	Barcelona
CHAMPIONS LEAGUE	We 02Oct 2019		Barcelona	2 - 1	Inter
SPANISH LA LIGA	Su 06Oct 2019		Barcelona	4 - 0	Sevilla
EUROPEAN CHAMPIONSHIPS	Th 10Oct 2019		Holland	3 - 1	N Ireland
EUROPEAN CHAMPIONSHIPS	Su 13Oct 2019		Belarus	1 - 2	Holland
SPANISH LA LIGA	Sa 19Oct 2019		Eibar	0 - 3	Barcelona
CHAMPIONS LEAGUE	We 23Oct 2019		Slavia Prague	1 - 2	Barcelona
SPANISH LA LIGA	Tu 29Oct 2019		Barcelona	5 - 1	Valladolid
SPANISH LA LIGA	Sa 02Nov 2019		Levante	3 - 1	Barcelona
CHAMPIONS LEAGUE	Tu 05Nov 2019		Barcelona	0 - 0	Slavia Prague
SPANISH LA LIGA	Sa 09Nov 2019		Barcelona	4 - 1	Celta Vigo
EUROPEAN CHAMPIONSHIPS	Sa 16Nov 2019		N Ireland	0 - 0	Holland
EUROPEAN CHAMPIONSHIPS	Tu 19Nov 2019	N	Holland	5 - 0	Estonia
SPANISH LA LIGA	Sa 23Nov 2019		Leganes	1 - 2	Barcelona
CHAMPIONS LEAGUE	We 27Nov 2019		Barcelona	3 - 1	B Dortmund
SPANISH LA LIGA	Su 01Dec 2019		Atl Madrid	0 - 1	Barcelona
SPANISH LA LIGA	Sa 07Dec 2019		Barcelona	5 - 2	Mallorca
CHAMPIONS LEAGUE	Tu 10Dec 2019		Inter	1 - 2	Barcelona
SPANISH LA LIGA	Sa 14Dec 2019		Sociedad	2 - 2	Barcelona
SPANISH LA LIGA	We 18Dec 2019		Barcelona	0 - 0	Real Madrid
SPANISH LA LIGA	Sa 21Dec 2019		Barcelona	4 - 1	Alaves
SPANISH LA LIGA	Sa 04Jan 2020		Espanyol	2 - 2	Barcelona

Appearances:31Totals:

2

3

1

Yep, and that would make the card total for Barcelona 3 in this game, with 2 more for Espanyol so that's 5 for the game. Not 6.

It would also be illogical for a player to receive 4 card points if he gets 2 yellow cards resulting in 1 red and only 3 card points if he got a yellow card and a straight red card after receiving the first yellow. The latter is a worse foul and the penalty for that is more severe so it's totally illogical to count it as 6 cards here.

[lonnie55]

Yep, and that would make the card total for Barcelona 3 in this game, with 2 more for Espanyol so that's 5 for the game. Not 6.

It would also be illogical for a player to receive 4 card points if he gets 2 yellow cards resulting in 1 red and only 3 card points if he got a yellow card and a straight red card after receiving the first yellow. The latter is a worse foul and the penalty for that is more severe so it's totally illogical to count it as 6 cards here.

That's what I said in post #10

They boost the over position by rewarding an event which is much more likely with higher points (yellow+yellow=red => 4 points) and an event which is much less likely (yellow+straight red => 3 points) with less points. Conversely, they punish the under position.

=> Doesn't make any sense. From now on, EVERY player will exploit their illogical interpretation of rules if they don't change the grading of your bet.

[Optional]

They boost the over position by rewarding an event which is much more likely with higher points (yellow+yellow=red => 4 points) and an event which is much less likely (yellow+straight red => 3 points) with less points. Conversely, they punish the under position.

Thankyou. That explains clearly why this is never counted as 6 cards by any book.

[ichiro4thehall]

That's what I said in post #10

They boost the over position by rewarding an event which is much more likely with higher points (yellow+yellow=red => 4 points) and an event which is much less likely (yellow+straight red => 3 points) with less points. Conversely, they punish the under position.

=> Doesn't make any sense. From now on, EVERY player will exploit their illogical interpretation of rules if they don't change the grading of your bet.

I really doubt this issue will be consistently graded this way in future. If Alfa has the biggest bet next match -as I'm gueesing he had here - on over 5.5 cards then it will almost certainly - given the same match outcomes - be graded a loser.

Has Tiger got back to you Optional? SBR has a very good relationship with BOL and have sorted many previous issues. I know Tiger is not BOL but they have a relationship and I was hopeful when I saw this thread that Alfa would get a good resolution.

[Optional]

I really doubt this issue will be consistently graded this way in future. If Alfa has the biggest bet next match -as I'm gueesing he had here - on over 5.5 cards then it will almost certainly - given the same match outcomes - be graded a loser.

Has Tiger got back to you Optional? SBR has a very good relationship with BOL and have sorted many previous issues. I know Tiger is not BOL but they have a relationship and I was hopeful when I saw this thread that Alfa would get a good resolution.

One of the admin guys deals this complaint, so I don't know. But am confident they will sort this out, same as you.

[semibluff]

...It would also be illogical for a player to receive 4 card points if he gets 2 yellow cards resulting in 1 red and only 3 card points if he got a yellow card and a straight red card after receiving the first yellow. The latter is a worse foul and the penalty for that is more severe so it's totally illogical to count it as 6 cards here.

I tried to say the same thing but I wasn't clear and obvious. Good luck to you.

[sadekmeister]

Had the same bet in Sportsbetting.ag and settled as loss.
Explained them why it should be winner, but they insist it was 4 yellow + 1 red = 6 points.
This is what the rules are on bet ticket:
Number of cards shows by the referee. Yellow Card = 1 / Red Card = 2 / One Yellow and a Red = 3 / 2 Yellow and a Red = 3. Only cards shown to players on the pitch are valid.

[lonnie55]

Number of cards shows by the referee. Yellow Card = 1 / Red Card = 2 / One Yellow and a Red = 3 / 2 Yellow and a Red = 3. Only cards shown to players on the pitch are valid.

So they don't stick to their own rules. Great.

[Alfa1234]

Had the same bet in Sportsbetting.ag and settled as loss.
Explained them why it should be winner, but they insist it was 4 yellow + 1 red = 6 points.
This is what the rules are on bet ticket:
Number of cards shows by the referee. Yellow Card = 1 / Red Card = 2 / One Yellow and a Red = 3 / 2 Yellow and a Red = 3. Only cards shown to players on the pitch are valid.

Please take a screenshot and post it here, I do not have those rules on my ticket.

[mrbubbles]

It is a loss. Remember, red cards count for two. So there were four yellow cards that equal 1 plus the red card that equals 2. De jong himself received four points. I’ve played these kinds of bets. He literally received the three cards. The red doesn’t happen without another yellow. In terms of points, he doesn’t matter about how bad of a foul, it only looks at cards issued.

[nutmegDE]

Wouldn‘t these different rules be perfect for a middle betting strategy?

[sadekmeister]

Please take a screenshot and post it here, I do not have those rules on my ticket.

My bet was finally regraded.

[Optional]

Had the same bet in Sportsbetting.ag and settled as loss.
Explained them why it should be winner, but they insist it was 4 yellow + 1 red = 6 points.
This is what the rules are on bet ticket:
Number of cards shows by the referee. Yellow Card = 1 / Red Card = 2 / One Yellow and a Red = 3 / 2 Yellow and a Red = 3. Only cards shown to players on the pitch are valid.

Those rules also say it should be 5!

This is getting weird so many reg bettors mis interpretting rules too!


Shoot in a complaint form and we can ask Sportsbetting to fix that one too.

[Optional]

My bet was finally regraded.

Oh great news!


@Alfa... is your bet fixed yet?

[newton0038]

That is not correct.

Here is Pinny rules. Pinnacle would count this as 5 cards

if u get a red only u have a 2pt card and out of the game. u get a pair of yellow u have 1 yellow, the second yellow is discarded and replaced by the red a value of 2. 1 yellow (1pt) 1 red(2pt) =3pt. Ideally up to each book to clairify rules and never post a wager on anything they have no posted rule on.

lonnie55 stated this that the 2nd yellow is discarded and replaced by the red.

[Optional]

Sorry Newton, what is your point here?

Just trying to throw the thread into confusion with false counting again?


Apart from Betfair, who counts it as 4, every rule we have seen posted says the count is 5 cards... even the rules people have first posted showing it is 5, and then say it adds up to 6

[Alfa1234]

Oh great news!


@Alfa... is your bet fixed yet?

Got regraded! Thank you very much Optional and SBR.

[newton0038]

Sorry Newton, what is your point here?

Just trying to throw the thread into confusion with false counting again?


Apart from Betfair, who counts it as 4, every rule we have seen posted says the count is 5 cards... even the rules people have first posted showing it is 5, and then say it adds up to 6

Prop with screwy rules attached to it . Should just be number of cards period without any "interpretation of rules" needed.

My bad reading the score sheet from top to bottom not bottom to top.( I read left to right , top to bottom) I was giving de Jong an extra yellow when he wasnt on pitch.

5 cards

[Alfa1234]

Got a mail about it as well just now AND they gave me a no-rollover required cash bonus. Great service I have to say.

[Optional]

Prop with screwy rules attached to it . Should just be number of cards period without any "interpretation of rules" needed.

My bad reading the score sheet from top to bottom not bottom to top.( I read left to right , top to bottom) I was giving de Jong an extra yellow when he wasnt on pitch.

5 cards

Obviously it is kind of confusing as so many even here are unsure, but honestly it seems to me it is just people not reading carefully enough.


Here is why you can be sure a 6 count is not possible here; (courtesy of Lonnie above)

Which of these two card scenarios is more likely to occur?

Yellow + Yellow = Red
Yellow + Red

If a Y+Y=R counted as 1 point + 1 point + 2 points = 4 points,

And Y+R counted as 1 point + 2 points = 3 points

Then the more likely outcome would be attracting more card points.

It would not work math wise and smart bettors would be looking to exploit it.

[Optional]

Got a mail about it as well just now AND they gave me a no-rollover required cash bonus. Great service I have to say.

That was nice of them.

Maybe your thread was helpful.

[semibluff]

Technically the rules applying to @sadekmeister which were posted on the ticket were correctly posted in the book's response in the original post by @Alfa1234. Unfortunately the layout of the wording was what caused the confusion. It should have looked like this:

Yellow Card equals to 1,
a Red Card equals to 2
One Yellow and a Red will be consider 3
2 for last a Yellow and a Red will equal to 3

Breaking it up by using / and posting it all on 1 line is what caused confusion for everyone and resulted in staff at the book getting it wrong.