1. #1
    PhillyFlyers
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    Nagasaki vs. Detroit

    The purpose of this thread is to allow the discussion of two cities of major cultural, social, industrial, historical and economic importance to their respective countries and to objectively look at the impact of a largely racially united country vs. a multi-cultural one and the impact of those separate societies on their respective cities in the modern era.

    NAGASAKI


    During World War 2 Nagasaki was a major industrial center and one of the largest sea ports in Japan. Nagasaki was founded by the Portuguese in the second half of the 16th century on the site of small fishing village. It was a center of Portuguese and other European peoples through the 19th century and was a leading center of Christianity in Japan, and in particular Roman Catholicism.

    In the modern era, when Japan opened up to foreign trade and diplomatic relations, Nagasaki began modernizing in 1868. It's main industry was ship building with the major player being Mitsubishi Heavy Industries which in time became one of the prime contractors for the Imperial Japanese Navy.


    On August 9, 1945 Nagasaki was devastated when it was the target of the United States' second atomic attack in the closing stages of World War 2. According to statistics found within Nagasaki Peace Park, the death toll from the atomic bombing totaled 73,884, including 2,000 Korean forced workersand eight POWs, as well as another 74,909 injured, and another several hundred thousand diseased and dying due to fallout and other illness caused by radiation.




    In the years after the war, Nagasaki was slowly rebuilt. New Churches were built with a renewed and increasing presence of Christianity. It reclaimed it's historical place as a major sea port and industrial center with a rich ship building industry and setting a strong example of perseverance and peace.








    DETROIT

    Detroit was founded on July 24, 1701, by the French explorer and adventurer Antoine Laumet de la Mothe, sieur de Cadillac. In time, it became the most populous and important city in Michigan and emerged as a metropolitan powerhouse with the construction of an extensive freeway system in the 1950s and 1960s.

    It was known at one time as the world's traditional automotive center.








    Sadly, since the boom of the industrial automotive period, Detroit has undergone what can only be described as a horrific decline. It's peak population of the 1950s was estimated at 1.8 million people to just over 700,000 today according the the 2010 consensus.

    In the United States, only St. Louis, Missouri and Youngstown, Ohio have seen declines of over 60% or more during the same time period.

    During the African-American Civil Rights Movement of the 1950s and 1960s, Detroit witnessed growing confrontations between inner city black youths and police forces which resulted in the tragic Twelfth Street Riot
    in July 1967.

    Michigan governor George Romney ordered the Michigan National Guard in and President Johnson sent in US Army troops. The result was 43 dead, 467 injured, over 7,200 arrests and over 2,000 buildings destroyed.

    From Wiki:

    On August 18, 1970, the NAACP filed suit against Michigan state officials, including Governor William Milliken. The original trial began on April 6, 1971, and lasted for 41 days. The NAACP argued that although schools were not officially segregated (white only), the city of Detroit and its surrounding counties had enacted policies to maintain racial segregation in schools. The NAACP also suggested a direct relationship between unfair housing practices (such as redlining) and educational segregation.[34]
    District Judge Steven J. Roth held all levels of government accountable for the segregation. The Sixth Circuit Court affirmed some of the decision, withholding judgment on the relationship of housing inequality with education. The Court specified that it was the state's responsibility to integrate across the segregated metropolitan area.[35]
    The Governor and other accused officials appealed to the Supreme Court, which took up the case on February 27, 1974.[34] The subsequent Milliken v. Bradley decision would come to have enormous national impact. According to Gary Orfield and Susan E. Eaton in their 1996 book Dismantling Desegregation, the “Supreme Court’s failure to examine the housing underpinnings of metropolitan segregation” in Milliken made desegregation “almost impossible” in northern metropolitan areas. “Suburbs were protected from desegregation by the courts ignoring the origin of their racially segregated housing patterns.” “Milliken was perhaps the greatest missed opportunity of that period,” said Myron Orfield, professor of law and director of the Institute on Metropolitan Opportunity at the University of Minnesota, “Had that gone the other way, it would have opened the door to fixing nearly all of Detroit’s current problems.” John Mogk, a professor of law and an expert in urban planning at Wayne State University in Detroit says “Everybody thinks that it was the riots [in 1967] that caused the white families to leave. Some people were leaving at that time but, really, it was after Milliken that you saw mass flight to the suburbs. If the case had gone the other way, it is likely that Detroit would not have experienced the steep decline in its tax base that has occurred since then."[36]












  2. #2
    Dr.Gonzo
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  3. #3
    mighty maron
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    Nagasaki and the atomic attack on Hiroshima represents the representation of military weapons gone wild. Much of the world did not approve of this attack. The world united after the war to aid in the rebuilding of the city. The United States continued to help for decades. The camps of naturalized american citizens that held Japanese during the war on American soil further galvanized rebuilding efforts.

    Detroit is a representation of greed and putting all its eggs in the automotive basket. The checks and balances certainly have failed Detroit. It is not an ethnic problem but a greed problem. Cities all over the United States have problems caused by corruption. Not to the extent of Detroit but it is there.

    IMO OP is going for veiled attempt at legitmizing racial attitudes or that one society is better than another. The noble savage theory does not work with Native Americans nor a similiar theory about the Asian cultures. Racism is rampant among Korea, China, Japan, and all the other smaller countries. Attitudes of gender are equally loathsome there as in every other part of the world. The defects of man are universal

    Nagaski was rebuilt out of guilt of the use of atomic weapons...if Nagaski was still in shambles the military would have a harder time convincing the public that these weapons are feasable. They point towards those two cities and say that rebuilding is possible and nuclear weapons have a temporary effect.

  4. #4
    PhillyFlyers
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    Quote Originally Posted by mighty maron View Post
    Nagasaki and the atomic attack on Hiroshima represents the representation of military weapons gone wild. Much of the world did not approve of this attack. The world united after the war to aid in the rebuilding of the city. The United States continued to help for decades. The camps of naturalized american citizens that held Japanese during the war on American soil further galvanized rebuilding efforts.

    Detroit is a representation of greed and putting all its eggs in the automotive basket. The checks and balances certainly have failed Detroit. It is not an ethnic problem but a greed problem. Cities all over the United States have problems caused by corruption. Not to the extent of Detroit but it is there.

    IMO OP is going for veiled attempt at legitmizing racial attitudes or that one society is better than another. The noble savage theory does not work with Native Americans nor a similiar theory about the Asian cultures. Racism is rampant among Korea, China, Japan, and all the other smaller countries. Attitudes of gender are equally loathsome there as in every other part of the world. The defects of man are universal

    Nagaski was rebuilt out of guilt of the use of atomic weapons...if Nagaski was still in shambles the military would have a harder time convincing the public that these weapons are feasable. They point towards those two cities and say that rebuilding is possible and nuclear weapons have a temporary effect.
    Every single society that is racially united has (or had) a far greater quality of life (this includes crime stats) than multi-racial societies. Japan is a great example. Far better quality of life, far less crime, far less social problems, far less violent crimes etc. etc.

    Europe before mass immigration would be another example as well.

    Detroit is a great example of the absolute failure of a multicultural society. When Detroit was mostly white, it boomed. When the blacks and other minorities took over, it died. Not only economically but the cost in terms of blood in violent crimes was enormous. During the Twelfth Street Riot they destroyed over 2,000 buildings.

    As far the US helping Japan after the war, it did but it didn't do it for free and out of the goodness of it's heart. Japan provided many services to the US during those years and the US wasn't responsible for rebuilding Nagasaki.

  5. #5
    mighty maron
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhillyFlyers View Post
    Every single society that is racially united has (or had) a far greater quality of life (this includes crime stats) than multi-racial societies. Japan is a great example. Far better quality of life, far less crime, far less social problems, far less violent crimes etc. etc.

    Europe before mass immigration would be another example as well.

    Detroit is a great example of the absolute failure of a multicultural society. When Detroit was mostly white, it boomed. When the blacks and other minorities took over, it died. Not only economically but the cost in terms of blood in violent crimes was enormous. During the Twelfth Street Riot they destroyed over 2,000 buildings.

    As far the US helping Japan after the war, it did but it didn't do it for free and out of the goodness of it's heart. Japan provided many services to the US during those years and the US wasn't responsible for rebuilding Nagasaki.
    I concur that US aid to Japan was not done out of the goodness of the heart. The government needed to convince the world and its own citizens that nuclear weapons and their damage were not "permanent"

    The constant wars between France, England, and Spain before mass migration are stellar examples of peace...oppression of the Irish..

    It is a humanity problem not an ethnic problem

  6. #6
    PhillyFlyers
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    Quote Originally Posted by mighty maron View Post
    I concur that US aid to Japan was not done out of the goodness of the heart. The government needed to convince the world and its own citizens that nuclear weapons and their damage were not "permanent"

    The constant wars between France, England, and Spain before mass migration are stellar examples of peace...oppression of the Irish..

    It is a humanity problem not an ethnic problem
    Wars between nations are not the topic. Racially united societies vs. multicultural ones are.

    Racially united societies are far better off in every category of life and that is a fact.

    The Twelfth Street Riot is a great example. Blacks destroyed over 2,000 buildings in their own city, meaning they destroyed their own city on purpose. There is not a single example of this behavior found in Japan in their entire history.

  7. #7
    mighty maron
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhillyFlyers View Post
    Wars between nations are not the topic. Racially united societies vs. multicultural ones are.

    Racially united societies are far better off in every category of life and that is a fact.

    The Twelfth Street Riot is a great example. Blacks destroyed over 2,000 buildings in their own city, meaning they destroyed their own city on purpose. There is not a single example of this behavior found in Japan in their entire history.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rice_Riots_of_1918 for your example of rioting in the so called utopian society of japan

  8. #8
    PhillyFlyers
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    Quote Originally Posted by mighty maron View Post
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rice_Riots_of_1918 for your example of rioting in the so called utopian society of japan
    This post is deceitful.

    The title "Race Riots" indicates violence over racial tensions. They were rioting over rise in prices of rice and they still didn't destroy 2,000 buildings.

  9. #9
    mighty maron
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhillyFlyers View Post
    Wars between nations are not the topic. Racially united societies vs. multicultural ones are.

    Racially united societies are far better off in every category of life and that is a fact.

    The Twelfth Street Riot is a great example. Blacks destroyed over 2,000 buildings in their own city, meaning they destroyed their own city on purpose. There is not a single example of this behavior found in Japan in their entire history.


    Looks pretty burned out to me.....

    Where do you see the word race in the post...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rice_Riots_of_1918

    I think you are reading race into things that arent there by the assumption of the word race in the wiki article

  10. #10
    mighty maron
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhillyFlyers View Post
    This post is deceitful.

    The title "Race Riots" indicates violence over racial tensions. They were rioting over rise in prices of rice and they still didn't destroy 2,000 buildings.
    You want to make the article about race and the word is not even in the article. You are seeing and putting race literally and figuratively into things that arent there

  11. #11
    PhillyFlyers
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    Quote Originally Posted by mighty maron View Post


    Looks pretty burned out to me.....

    Where do you see the word race in the post...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rice_Riots_of_1918

    I think you are reading race into things that arent there by the assumption of the word race in the wiki article
    My bad, I read it incorrectly. Thought the "i" was an "a" in the word Rice.

  12. #12
    mighty maron
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhillyFlyers View Post
    My bad, I read it incorrectly. Thought the "i" was an "a" in the word Rice.
    np...debate and opinions are what make thinking individuals special. You presented your side without vulgarity and put thought into it. I dont agree but I respect the manner of arguement

  13. #13
    PhillyFlyers
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    Quote Originally Posted by mighty maron View Post
    np...debate and opinions are what make thinking individuals special. You presented your side without vulgarity and put thought into it. I dont agree but I respect the manner of arguement
    There is no debate though on quality of life of racially united societies vs. multicultural ones. The stats tell the truth.

    Hard to see how you can disagree with the facts. Anyway, you are entitled to your opinion.

  14. #14
    mighty maron
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhillyFlyers View Post
    There is no debate though on quality of life of racially united societies vs. multicultural ones. The stats tell the truth.

    Hard to see how you can disagree with the facts. Anyway, you are entitled to your opinion.





    http://inhabitat.com/japans-tiny-cof...like-a-palace/

    Havent solved the problem of old homeless people in japan

    http://japandailypress.com/japans-ne...lation-0124399

    Facts can be spun either way. Unless you have lived first hand in Japan then we rely on our "facts" by people recording them for us.

    You spouted that there has not been any similiar riots in Japan. I provided you one. You say the quality of life is superior. I can feed you "facts" that counter any argument.

    There is little truth in this life and a whole lot of interpretation.

  15. #15
    PhillyFlyers
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    Quote Originally Posted by mighty maron View Post




    http://inhabitat.com/japans-tiny-cof...like-a-palace/

    Havent solved the problem of old homeless people in japan

    http://japandailypress.com/japans-ne...lation-0124399

    Facts can be spun either way. Unless you have lived first hand in Japan then we rely on our "facts" by people recording them for us.

    You spouted that there has not been any similiar riots in Japan. I provided you one. You say the quality of life is superior. I can feed you "facts" that counter any argument.

    There is little truth in this life and a whole lot of interpretation.
    No, you didn't.

    The blacks in Detroit during those riots destroyed over 2,000 buildings. That's fact #1.

    Fact #2 Japan has no example of this in it's history.

    If you want to see the big picture, take a look at crime stats (especially violent crime), tax rates, average income, quality of life stats, etc etc.

    You posted a picture of a homeless Japanese guy. Care to post the homeless stats of Japan vs the US now just to make the argument fair?

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    mighty maron
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    .... The initial protest occurred in the small fishing town of Uozu, Toyama Prefecture, on 23 July 1918. Starting with peaceful petitioning, the disturbance quickly escalated to riots, strikes, looting, incendiary bombings of police stations and government offices and armed clashes. By mid-September 1918, over 623 disturbances had occurred in 38 cities, 153 towns and 177 villages, with over 2 million participants. Some 25,000 people were arrested, of whom 8200 were convicted of various crimes, with punishments ranging from minor fines to the death penalty


    I would say that the riots in Japan spread to more than one city and the damage was more widespread accross the nation. The government took it so serious that it executed its own citizens

  17. #17
    PhillyFlyers
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    Mighty

    Homeless Statistics

    Japan

    An estimated 25,296 are homeless in Japan. An estimated 5,000 people are homeless in Toyko.

    USA

    Estimated homeless figures in the United States range from 600,000 to 2.5 million.

    1.37 million of the total homeless population in USA are children under the age of 18. 40% are families with children, 41% are single males, 14% are single females.

    http://www.homelessworldcup.org/cont...ess-statistics

  18. #18
    PhillyFlyers
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    Quote Originally Posted by mighty maron View Post
    .... The initial protest occurred in the small fishing town of Uozu, Toyama Prefecture, on 23 July 1918. Starting with peaceful petitioning, the disturbance quickly escalated to riots, strikes, looting, incendiary bombings of police stations and government offices and armed clashes. By mid-September 1918, over 623 disturbances had occurred in 38 cities, 153 towns and 177 villages, with over 2 million participants. Some 25,000 people were arrested, of whom 8200 were convicted of various crimes, with punishments ranging from minor fines to the death penalty


    I would say that the riots in Japan spread to more than one city and the damage was more widespread accross the nation. The government took it so serious that it executed its own citizens
    You give one example of a riot in Japan. I could give you many more that occurred in the US.

    WORST RACE RIOTS IN US HISTORY

    CINCINNATI, Ohio, April 13 (AFP) - As the city of Cincinnati returns to normal after three days of violent clashes between police and members of the black community, here is a chronology of the worst race riots in recent US history:
    - August 11-17, 1965: A routine identity check by police on two black men in a car sparks the Watts riots in Los Angeles, which leave 34 people dead, 1,032 injured and cause more than 40 millions dollars' worth of damage.
    The trouble starts when Marquette Frye and his half-brother are stopped by police and taken in for questioning. Several thousand blacks surround the police station and after a week of arson and looting, the Watts ghetto is all but destroyed.
    - Summer 1966: Violence flares in 43 cities, including Chicago, Cleveland, Ohio, Atlanta, Georgia, and San Francisco, resulting in 11 deaths and more than 400 injured.
    - July 12-17, 1967: A heated dispute between two white police officers and a black taxi driver sets off rioting in Newark, New Jersey. For five days, in stifling summer heat, rioters wreck the district, leaving 26 dead and 1,500 injured.
    - July 23-28, 1967: Race riots in Detroit, Michigan, kill 43 and leave more than 2,000 injured. Trouble spreads to Illinois, North Carolina, Tennessee and Maryland. The death toll in 128 cities nationwide for 1967 is 83 dead.
    - April 4-11, 1968: After the assassination of Dr. Martin Luther King in Memphis, Tennessee, violence erupts in 125 cities, leaving at least 46 dead and 2,600 injured. In Washington, President Lyndon B. Johnson sends in the elite 82nd Airborne Division to quell riots.
    - May 17-20, 1980: The acquittal of four white police officers in Tampa, Florida, on charges of beating a black motorcyclist to death in December 1979 in Miami after he rode through a red light, sets off a wave of violence in Miami's Liberty City, leaving 18 dead and more than 400 injured.
    - August 1991: Four days of rioting in the Crown Heights district of Brooklyn, New York, between Hassidic Jews and blacks. The violence is set off by the death of a seven-year-old black child run over by the motorcade of Rabbi Menachem Schneerson. An Australian Jewish student, Yankel Rosenbaum, is knifed and killed by a 21-year-old black, Lemrick Nelson, who seven years later is sentenced to 19 years' imprisonment.
    - April 30-May 1, 1992: The worst riots in US history take place in Los Angeles, with a toll of 59 dead and more than 2,300 injured. The violence was set off by the acquittal of four white police officers who were caught on camera beating up a black man, Rodney King, after stopping his car. Violent incidents also break out in Atlanta, San Jose, California, Las Vegas, San Francisco and New York.
    - October 24, 1996: The death of a black driver, killed by a white policeman, sparks a night of violence in the rundown black quarter of Saint Petersburg, Florida, in which 15 people are injured.
    - April 9, 2001: Rioting breaks out in Cincinnati, Ohio, after the killing of a 19-year-old black, Timothy Thomas, by a white police officer. Thomas is the fourth black victim of white police in the city since November 2000.

    http://www.thebirdman.org/Index/Othe...nRaceRiots.htm

  19. #19
    mighty maron
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    I have presented my side. I am not going to change your mind nor you are going to change mine.

    GL with your arguments and opinions in the future

  20. #20
    PhillyFlyers
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    Quote Originally Posted by mighty maron View Post
    I have presented my side. I am not going to change your mind nor you are going to change mine.

    GL with your arguments and opinions in the future
    The facts prove your side wrong beyond a doubt.

  21. #21
    mighty maron
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhillyFlyers View Post
    The facts prove your side wrong beyond a doubt.
    have a good day sir

  22. #22
    PhillyFlyers
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    Quote Originally Posted by mighty maron View Post
    have a good day sir
    Good day.

  23. #23
    billysink
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    OP does not know jack shit about Detroit, probably has not spent any time there at all. Does not understand and never lived through the underlying issues that perpetuated the decline and rebirth of that city. Nor does the OP have a grassroots understanding of what racial inequality is really all about.

    Third hand copy and paste of second hand accounts of shit folk never saw.

    Blah fukkin Blah Blah Blah.

    Why don't you write some shit that you know Flyers. Maybe a manual on how to twerk your fukkin pillow or something.
    Last edited by billysink; 07-11-13 at 07:59 PM.

  24. #24
    Itsamazing777
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    I live In metro Detroit, so I know. Blame the democrats. Democrat run For the last 50 years.

  25. #25
    billysink
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    Quote Originally Posted by Itsamazing777 View Post
    I live In metro Detroit, so I know. Blame the democrats. Democrat run For the last 50 years.
    Exactly how the shit got out of hand. Johnson did not want to concede that Romney was right and they needed to bring in the army not the guard. Shit was nothing but a neighborhood drunk riot until Vance showed up and fukked it all up. I still have the image of Willie Horton trying to stop shit standing on a car in his Tiger uniform.

  26. #26
    mighty maron
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    Quote Originally Posted by billysink View Post
    Exactly how the shit got out of hand. Johnson did not want to concede that Romney was right and they needed to bring in the army not the guard. Shit was nothing but a neighborhood drunk riot until Vance showed up and fukked it all up. I still have the image of Willie Horton trying to stop shit standing on a car in his Tiger uniform.
    Thats old school if you have that image in your head...tip my hat to you

  27. #27
    billysink
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    Quote Originally Posted by mighty maron View Post
    Thats old school if you have that image in your head...tip my hat to you
    I was 8 years old and 6 blocks away from where that shit started. My grams got us through the tunnel to Windsor. Sat on the river in Alexander Park and watched that city burn itself down.

  28. #28
    PhillyFlyers
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    Quote Originally Posted by billysink View Post
    I was 8 years old and 6 blocks away from where that shit started. My grams got us through the tunnel to Windsor. Sat on the river in Alexander Park and watched that city burn itself down.
    Yeah and who did the burning? It was the blacks.

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