[TheCentaur]

Big government proponents (Govt. employees, govt. assisted/supported individuals, liberals, wealth redistributionists) and
Small government proponents (Business owners, high income individuals, taxpayers, other smart people)

It is much easier to be taken care of than to struggle on your own, so simple reasoning points to a reduction in the number of small government proponents over time and an increase in population supported by government.

This would mean the tax and redistribute system is finite and unsustainable and eventually there is a)war b)peaceful split c)the USA descends into chaos and a 3rd world country d)there is a great awakening across the country and everyone realizes the current system is unsustainable and big changes are made

Which do you think will happen, why will it happen, and when?

[Darkside Magick]

more than 2 though.....maybe like 4 or 5.

more like 2025

[Delicious]

Inevitable balkanization..... I agree with darkside definitely more than two

[byronbb]

I think the internet is perfect for organizing society from a grass roots level outward. I am a History major and loved learning about the Industrial Revolution and the impact it had on society and the world. The internet and globalization is going to have a disrupting effect on an scale we can't even imagine yet.

[darrell74]

no
global terrorists will continue to keep the union
too skeerrdd to divide

[chopperocker]

it should split into 50 countries.

[nosniboR11]

I want there to be a civil war, i want blood spilled

[CallMeChip]

Big government proponents (Govt. employees, govt. assisted/supported individuals, liberals, wealth redistributionists) and
Small government proponents (Business owners, high income individuals, taxpayers, other smart people)

lol good job lumping liberals in with big govt. Being liberal has nothing to do with big government. Typical display of Republican meager intelligence. Don't lump all liberals in with govt assisted individuals either. How many times do you have to tell Republicans that red states receive more government assistance, it's a mathematical fact...

[TheCentaur]

lol good job lumping liberals in with big govt. Being liberal has nothing to do with big government.

You are stuck in an old definition of liberal then. Regarding today's liberal it's spot on

[tto827]

lol good job lumping liberals in with big govt. Being liberal has nothing to do with big government. Typical display of Republican meager intelligence. Don't lump all liberals in with govt assisted individuals either. How many times do you have to tell Republicans that red states receive more government assistance, it's a mathematical fact...

That's very interesting, any link to that fact? And government assistance, what's that refer to? If it is food stamps and holdouts, I can almost guarantee that Michigan, New York, Illinois, Ohio, and California themselves account for almost half.

[play4win]

Yes, the 4th reich is coming down

[CallMeChip]

You are stuck in an old definition of liberal then. Regarding today's liberal it's spot on

You're basing liberalism around receiving govt aide. That's not liberalism... it's just receiving govt aide. Being a liberal is not the same thing as being a Democrat. Liberalism is focused on inalienable rights, equality, personal freedoms, etc... that's its basis. Those things have to be regulated by government or else there's no way to control them. I'm all for government regulating the way public companies are allowed to do business in accordance with federal law, but that doesn't mean "big" government, it means smart government. If that was actually the case over the last 50 years we'd probably be in much better shape than we are now. Unfortunately, who you referred to as wanting "small" government, those individuals were allowed to operate with impunity through corporate malfeasance and manipulative business tactics, ultimately drowning the economy and destroying the housing market causing a massive depression. That was because of "small" government that refused to regulate them.

People can't regulate themselves in that situation. It was proved in 2008. Can't argue with historically proven fact. The government's power is absolutely necessary at this exact moment as a direct result of people thinking it was absolutely unnecessary 10 years ago.

[TheCentaur]

You're basing liberalism around receiving govt aide. That's not liberalism... it's just receiving govt aide. Being a liberal is not the same thing as being a Democrat. Liberalism is focused on inalienable rights, equality, personal freedoms, etc... that's its basis. Those things have to be regulated by government or else there's no way to control them. I'm all for government regulating the way public companies are allowed to do business in accordance with federal law, but that doesn't mean "big" government, it means smart government. If that was actually the case over the last 50 years we'd probably be in much better shape than we are now. Unfortunately, who you referred to as wanting "small" government, those individuals were allowed to operate with impunity through corporate malfeasance and manipulative business tactics, ultimately drowning the economy and destroying the housing market causing a massive depression. That was because of "small" government that refused to regulate them.

People can't regulate themselves in that situation. It was proved in 2008. Can't argue with historically proven fact. The government's power is absolutely necessary at this exact moment as a direct result of people thinking it was absolutely unnecessary 10 years ago.

To summarize your reply: I am not for big government, I am for a government with a lot of power

People in positions of power and authority will always be able to control and manipulate. The important difference is that if it's in the private sector we have a choice whether to comply, whereas non compliance to the gov. will get knocks on your door, fines, and jailtime.

I don't really feel like writing a long reply, but lm fuking ao at you blaming the housing market crisis (the catalyst of the recession) on the private sector. Sure banks and their greedy employees played a big role, but it was the LIBERAL government policies pushing for mortgages to unqualified persons and the government sponsored Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac following through on these disastrous policies that turned everything on it's head.

[CallMeChip]

That's very interesting, any link to that fact? And government assistance, what's that refer to? If it is food stamps and holdouts, I can almost guarantee that Michigan, New York, Illinois, Ohio, and California themselves account for almost half.

I linked it in about 20 threads during the election. Nope, not those states.

http://www.census.gov/statab/ranks/rank34.html

States by population percentage under poverty level

1. Mississippi
2. Lousiana
3. New Mexico
4. Arkansas
5. Kentucky
6. Alabama
6. West Virginia -tie
8. Washington D.C
8. Texas - tie
10. Oklahoma
10. Tennessee - tie

Need I say more? Save for DC and New Mexico, all are red states. It's not rocket science.

[TheCentaur]

I linked it in about 20 threads during the election. Nope, not those states.

http://www.census.gov/statab/ranks/rank34.html

States by population percentage under poverty level

1. Mississippi
2. Lousiana
3. New Mexico
4. Arkansas
5. Kentucky
6. Alabama
6. West Virginia -tie
8. Washington D.C
8. Texas - tie
10. Oklahoma
10. Tennessee - tie

Need I say more? Save for DC and New Mexico, all are red states. It's not rocket science.

You're right it's not rocket science.

The majority of those states you mention have very high black populations compared to the rest of the country. Same reason their standardized test scores are in the crapper. It isn't hard to figure out the 45% or so of the black population in that state that goes out to vote votes democrat and the 55% white population sees firsthand what's going on and votes Republican. Thus it's a red state. Hell if I lived in New Hampshire I might be a liberal and a democrat too.

[CallMeChip]

To summarize your reply: I am not for big government, I am for a government with a lot of power

People in positions of power and authority will always be able to control and manipulate. The important difference is that if it's in the private sector we have a choice whether to comply, whereas non compliance to the gov. will get knocks on your door, fines, and jailtime.

I don't really feel like writing a long reply, but lm fuking ao at you blaming the housing market crisis (the catalyst of the recession) on the private sector. Sure banks and their greedy employees played a big role, but it was the LIBERAL government policies pushing for mortgages to unqualified persons and the government sponsored Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac following through on these disastrous policies that turned everything on it's head.

Deregulation caused the bubble and crisis. Liberal govt policies? Unless you are referring to Glass/Steagall in some way there's no such thing as recession inducing liberal policy. Democrats and Republicans were both involved in deregulation, not liberals. You've got it backwards, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were to blame for a portion of the damage, but not nearly as much as the "banks and greedy employees" as you call them, who are but not limited to Citi, Countrywide, AIG, Wachovia, Wamu, Ameriquest (Citigroup) and the enormous amounts of derivatives and cdo's from Merrill Lynch and Lehman Brothers. LOL you think because F & F were government sponsored that it was the government that caused the majority of it? Yikes dude, read some literature and do the math. 84% of subprime mortgages came from private lending in 2007, NOT GOVERNMENT SPONSORED ENTERPRISES. I love math, it doesn't lie.

[CallMeChip]

You're right it's not rocket science.

The majority of those states you mention have very high black populations compared to the rest of the country. Same reason their standardized test scores are in the crapper. It isn't hard to figure out the 45% or so of the black population in that state that goes out to vote votes democrat and the 55% white population sees firsthand what's going on and votes Republican. Thus it's a red state. Hell if I lived in New Hampshire I might be a liberal and a democrat too.

Wow, so you're racist too. Only 3 of those states have black populations over 20% and no state in the country has a black population over 37%.

Buried. Discussion over.

[TheCentaur]

Deregulation caused the bubble and crisis. Liberal govt policies? Unless you are referring to Glass/Steagall in some way there's no such thing as recession inducing liberal policy. Democrats and Republicans were both involved in deregulation, not liberals. You've got it backwards, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were to blame for a portion of the damage, but not nearly as much as the "banks and greedy employees" as you call them, who are but not limited to Citi, Countrywide, AIG, Wachovia, Wamu, Ameriquest (Citigroup) and the enormous amounts of derivatives and cdo's from Merrill Lynch and Lehman Brothers. LOL you think because F & F were government sponsored that it was the government that caused the majority of it? Yikes dude, read some literature and do the math. 84% of subprime mortgages came from private lending in 2007, NOT GOVERNMENT SPONSORED ENTERPRISES. I love math, it doesn't lie.

It's the good old liberal dip and dance!

Please answer me clearly, was not the underlying cause of this crisis the forcing of high risk mortgage quotas by the government onto government sponsored and private lenders? Something a market free of government interference would have never done in the first place?

[King Mayan]

I can't wait to see Alabama on its own..

Maybe Mississippi

[CallMeChip]

It's the good old liberal dip and dance!

Please answer me clearly, was not the underlying cause of this crisis the forcing of high risk mortgage quotas by the government onto government sponsored and private lenders? Something a market free of government interference would have never done in the first place?

FUK NO! LOLOLOL You think the government told securities traders and mortagage lenders hey lend to these people?!?!? The government can't tell private lenders how to lend lol, that's what's called "deregulation"...

WE HAVE BEEN LIVING IN A DEREGULATED FREE MARKET, THAT'S WHAT CAUSED THE BUBBLE.

lol you don't even know we live in a free market system, now this conversation is definitely over.

[TheCentaur]

Wow, so you're racist too.

Oh no, oh no! You busted out the r word, what will I do? I'm a realist, but I don't care what you call me.

Funny how you love to talk numbers but don't research them in to the scary corners libs don't dare to go. Such as what % of the black population in these states you use in your example are free of gov. assistance, or even pay income taxes, then compare that to the white population.

I brought up race because you slyly and misleadingly bring up how states with some of the highest amounts of gov. asst. are red states, when you know damn well why.

And yes I exaggerated the black % in the states earlier

[CallMeChip]

Oh no, oh no! You busted out the r word, what will I do? I'm a realist, but I don't care what you call me.

Funny how you love to talk numbers but don't research them in to the scary corners libs don't dare to go. Such as what % of the black population in these states you use in your example are free of gov. assistance, or even pay income taxes, then compare that to the white population.

I brought up race because you slyly and misleadingly bring up how states with some of the highest amounts of gov. asst. are red states, when you know damn well why.

And yes I exaggerated the black % in the states earlier

When you discover that number you let me know. Oh that's right it's impossible because recipients aren't required to stipulate what race they are when receiving government aid in state census. That's why you can't see how many people of each race collect unemployment benefits and other govt aide by state, but hey keep being a "realist" (racist) and speculating that minorities are the scourge of civilization, that mentality helped your group out in this election.

Nationally the AFDC numbers are:
White 38.8%
Black 39.8
Hispanic 15.7
Asian 2.4
other 3.3

womp wommmmmp

Maybe the country will split into 2. I really hope the south will rise again, so it can get another fukkin' beatdown.

[TheCentaur]

FUK NO! LOLOLOL You think the government told securities traders and mortagage lenders hey lend to these people?!?!? The government can't tell private lenders how to lend lol, that's what's called "deregulation"...

My God u strange little man, you think a government employee calls people and tells them what to do? No silly, they control things through incentives and penalties.

By the way, the first state I checked, Miss., had a black population over 37%
It's no surprise, facts and liberals don't pair well together.

It's easy to see you are the sort that will not compromise or concede to any point, just try by any obfuscatory means necessary to seem correct.

[TheCentaur]

womp wommmmmp

What was that? Your mother stomping on your ceiling in the basement letting you know it's time for bed?

[CallMeChip]

My God u strange little man, you think a government employee calls people and tells them what to do? No silly, they control things through incentives and penalties.

By the way, the first state I checked, Miss., had a black population over 37%
It's no surprise, facts and liberals don't pair well together.

It's easy to see you are the sort that will not compromise or concede to any point, just try by any obfuscatory means necessary to seem correct.

There are no penalties enforced on private lending institutions you retard, that's my whole point that we live in deregulation. Ohhh I'm soooo wrong the black population in MS is not 37% it's 37.3%, oh my god you're really got me, you're a total genius, because that .3% really makes all the difference.

Implying I live with my mother, wow that's not even a funny statement anymore. At least make a zing funny, you retard. I live in a high rise condo in LA and I guarantee I make more money than you and your whole extended family combined. I also guarantee you have more family members on welfare than I, yet you are arguing against govt interference.

I don't concede points to people who make no argument besides, "black people suck, but hey I'm a realist so that's okay to say". Fukkin' moron...

[Dutch]

It'll never happen. Not enough suffering or violation of personal rights/freedoms to get people to act.

Too many are too busy texting and watching Repo Games to be worried about the direction of the country. Half the country can't even be bothered to vote.

[wikkidinsane]

I linked it in about 20 threads during the election. Nope, not those states.

http://www.census.gov/statab/ranks/rank34.html

States by population percentage under poverty level

1. Mississippi
2. Lousiana
3. New Mexico
4. Arkansas
5. Kentucky
6. Alabama
6. West Virginia -tie
8. Washington D.C
8. Texas - tie
10. Oklahoma
10. Tennessee - tie

Need I say more? Save for DC and New Mexico, all are red states. It's not rocket science.

Redneck Usa all those states lol. Uneducated Republican voters. Im sure if those people werent so backwards they would all be blue states too. All their lives they get up and get fed the same racist and partisan argument passed down from generation to generation. God help them!

[TheCentaur]

There are no penalties enforced on private lending institutions you retard, that's my whole point that we live in deregulation. Ohhh I'm soooo wrong the black population in MS is not 37% it's 37.3%, oh my god you're really got me, you're a total genius, because that .3% really makes all the difference.

Implying I live with my mother, wow that's not even a funny statement anymore. At least make a zing funny, you retard. I live in a high rise condo in LA and I guarantee I make more money than you and your whole extended family combined. I also guarantee you have more family members on welfare than I, yet you are arguing against govt interference.

I don't concede points to people who make no argument besides, "black people suck, but hey I'm a realist so that's okay to say". Fukkin' moron...

You're the classic know it all that doesn't want to have a discussion, would much rather insult people, and loves to draw attention to someone else's factual inaccuracies but when yours are pointed out it's of no importance.

Nowhere in my reply do i say black people suck but that's what you liberals see when someone points out high percentages of poverty, crime, govt. assistance in the black race. You tried to misrepresent that the people who voted red in a red state are the same people that receive the govt. assistance to make that state among the highest in govt. assistance. It's a gross misrepresentation, purposefully misleading, and when I called you on it you had a liberal seizure.

I will say that after researching I found that the mortgage crisis was not due to penalties and incentives as much as I had thought, I will concede that. To take the position that the Government tried to deregulate for some innocent purpose and the big bad private sector caused all this is bs. The gov knew exactly what it was doing and got exactly what it wanted by deregulation of mortgage lending, a higher percentage of high risk mortgages.

So you live in a high rise condo in LA huh? Is that something people should be jealous of? Apparently you make a lot of money too? Maybe peddling some kind of vomit like the Hollywood entertainment industry? Congratulations, ur a liberal douchebag.

[CallMeChip]

You're the classic know it all that doesn't want to have a discussion, would much rather insult people, and loves to draw attention to someone else's factual inaccuracies but when yours are pointed out it's of no importance.

Nowhere in my reply do i say black people suck but that's what you liberals see when someone points out high percentages of poverty, crime, govt. assistance in the black race. You tried to misrepresent that the people who voted red in a red state are the same people that receive the govt. assistance to make that state among the highest in govt. assistance. It's a gross misrepresentation, purposefully misleading, and when I called you on it you had a liberal seizure.

I didn't misrepresent shit, the FACT is those states do receive the most govt assistance, it was you who speculated they were all black. Really... you don't see poor white people? Get real.

I will say that after researching I found that the mortgage crisis was not due to penalties and incentives as much as I had thought, I will concede that. To take the position that the Government tried to deregulate for some innocent purpose and the big bad private sector caused all this is bs. The gov knew exactly what it was doing and got exactly what it wanted by deregulation of mortgage lending, a higher percentage of high risk mortgages.

This was exactly what I said in every previous post. The govt wanted high risk mortgages? How's that? They have to bailout out those interests then when everyone defaults... That was the opposite of what they wanted, they were just too busy becoming rich to care, which directly influenced opposition against any attempt to regulate. Repealing Glass-Steagall did wonders for the economy, but over time it goes the other way because of low capital over-consumption. Defaulting on credit basically sunk the whole ship. The govt did not see this coming until the were buried already, and by then tried to scramble somehow. They were definitely at fault, but my argument was always they were not even close to taking the majority of blame. Majority of blame falls upon private lending institutions.

So you live in a high rise condo in LA huh? Is that something people should be jealous of? Apparently you make a lot of money too? Maybe peddling some kind of vomit like the Hollywood entertainment industry? Congratulations, ur a liberal douchebag.

No, but I know it's something you're jealous of. I'm sorry I didn't realize everything we produced in Hollywood was vomit, Skyfall looked pretty good to me, Lincoln was well done, Flight, Argo... Hmmm, yes we're god awful, all our work sucks, our industry sucks, people hate goin' to the movies... Get a fukkin' clue

[frankthetank]

I talk about this all the time. Nothing stays the same. The USA will split or dissolve into other countries. Change is the only constant. I can see three countries being made out of our huge land mass. Hawaii and Alaska will cease to be a part of any of them.

[krf384]

To summarize your reply: I am not for big government, I am for a government with a lot of power

People in positions of power and authority will always be able to control and manipulate. The important difference is that if it's in the private sector we have a choice whether to comply, whereas non compliance to the gov. will get knocks on your door, fines, and jailtime.

I don't really feel like writing a long reply, but lm fuking ao at you blaming the housing market crisis (the catalyst of the recession) on the private sector. Sure banks and their greedy employees played a big role, but it was the LIBERAL government policies pushing for mortgages to unqualified persons and the government sponsored Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac following through on these disastrous policies that turned everything on it's head.

You deserve some points awarded to you for that last paragraph. It's laughable that someone would even attempt to blame the housing bubble and subsequent crash solely on unregulated private business without discussing the major role congress played in it with easing lending standards, pressuring the government sponsored agencies to lend to underqualified applicants (the poor) and combining that with interest rates dropping down near nada in the 2001-2002 time frame after 9/11. Perfect storm - largely created by our government.

[CallMeChip]

You deserve some points awarded to you for that last paragraph. It's laughable that someone would even attempt to blame the housing bubble and subsequent crash solely on unregulated private business without discussing the major role congress played in it with easing lending standards, pressuring the government sponsored agencies to lend to underqualified applicants (the poor) and combining that with interest rates dropping down near nada in the 2001-2002 time frame after 9/11. Perfect storm - largely created by our government.

Why don't you give him some? lol ghost

[andywend]

I linked it in about 20 threads during the election. Nope, not those states.

http://www.census.gov/statab/ranks/rank34.html

States by population percentage under poverty level

1. Mississippi
2. Lousiana
3. New Mexico
4. Arkansas
5. Kentucky
6. Alabama
6. West Virginia -tie
8. Washington D.C
8. Texas - tie
10. Oklahoma
10. Tennessee - tie

Need I say more? Save for DC and New Mexico, all are red states. It's not rocket science.

Liberal democrats will ALWAYS flock to the richer states as only the richer states can afford socialism (i.e. tons of free government handouts, etc).

If Silicon Valley decided to pack up and leave California (which they will do eventually) and move to Alabama then all the liberal democrats would eventually re-locate to where the money is and Alabama would become a dark blue state within a decade.

It takes a special kind of liberal idiot like CallmeChip to claim that liberals don't support a bigger and more powerful government.

The richer the state, the more socialist it will be run which is why richer states almost always vote democratic. Remember that each and every deadbeat liberal democrat welfare collector has the exact same voting power as a Bill Gates.

If you were a lazy, good for nothing liberal democrat, where would you choose to live - Alabama(where welfare and unemployment pay the least) or California (where they hand out taxpayer money like its cotton candy)?

Liberal democrats have destroyed our great nation and we are well past the point of no return. Mitt Romney's 47% remark was wrong only because it was inaccurate as the true percentage of government dependent Americans is now over 60%.

The number of liberal democratic leeches will only grow as our country's demographics worsen with the number of producers shrinking and our country's debt is going to grow exponentially faster and faster with each passing year.

Its not a matter of "if", but "when" the U.S. self-destructs. Because the entire world is so heavily invested in the U.S., it gives liberal democrats like President Obama, Pelosi and Reid all the more rope and it won't be just the U.S. that goes but the entire planet.

Liberal democrats have caused FAR MORE DAMAGE than any terrorist group ever could.

[Inspirited]

liberal democrats have always needed to import foreigners to create a base to win elections. that is pry disgusting. america is gone and dead.

[greenhippo]

I don't think the country will split into two, I think within 2-300 years, there won't be a United States of America anymore. Greek empire lasted for over 600 years, Roman empire lasted for over 500 years. Both at their height were unmatched in the world and anyone living there could never see where they've been relegated today. Inevitably, without question, where we're living now won't be the United States of America anymore. Domestic or foreign issues, but the USA will not last forever.