[lolguy999]

Hey guys, i have need of everyone's poker expertise once more after playing a troubling hand on the somehow-still-running Pokerstars cash table. I was actually showing my friend how cash tables can be beaten late at night after the drunks flock the table and here is my story.


Let's just say the blinds are 1$/2$ and the seatings are as follows.
I H G F E D C B A --- Player I has the button and the action goes from A to B to C etc. So A is small blinds and B is big blinds making C under the gun action first. My letter is F in middle position. Ive just sat down at the table and mucking all 5 hands all the while getting folded the small blind to me on my first hand so i am still even on my initial buy in of 200$. From the hands that ive played, Ive noticed the following:
C is a calling machine, playing 4/5 hands (80%). Usually playing the pot to the turn and the mucks it.
E is a shark. Playing 1 hand out of the 5 hands that ive been at the table, playing it hard and winning it.
G is also fairly active, playing 3/5 (60%) hands while I was at the table all the while winning only 1. (33%)

So i get KK... big pair alright, K of spades and K of hearts. C, under the gun, calls the blinds as usual. E also limps, which kind of set off some alarms on me. With 2 callers the standard raise for me with such a monster is 10. Ive decided to bet the fact that i havn't played a hand and that C is a calling station and E playing a pot he's involved in (presumably a small pair which is profitable to call to see the flop) to make the standard raise to 10. Player G calls. Action folded to C who calls and so does E and we see the flop being J 4 2, ALL SPADES.
I have the K of spades as well as the overpair so...

SCENARIO 1: C and E checks to me. What should i do? If i bet howmuch should i bet, should i have checked? Please think about it and give me your honest and professional answer before proceeding to think about scenario 2..


SCENARIO 2: I make a pot sized bet of 40 to a pot of 41. G thinks for a while and ultimately calls, and C shoves me all in relatively fast and has me covered. E instantly folded (presumably not even a spade in hand). With only 25% committed (50/200 $s) What should i be thinking about and really what should i do in this situation?

As always please leave me your most honest and professional opinion about this hand for -both- of the scenarios. Any sorts of comments, opinions, theorys, insults, from any of my plays starting from the PF raise is more than welcome. I will share the result of the hand soon. Please guys, help me on this one
-lolguy999-

[zlate22]

1. i would bet the pot same like u
2. i think C have A of spade and i put G on QJ Q spade i would definitly call

[wiffle]

why is the post so weird

[Pajda]

1. Bet about 3/4 of the pot, you get the same information as betting pot
2. I don't think I Could fold there.

[jordigs]

1. Cbet: 3/4 of the pot
2. Overpair and some outs to get flush high: Call.

[korbal29]

push all in no fooling around take care the dead money if no one calls

[lolguy999]

so are all of you are suggesting to try to get all the money in on the flop before the turn?

[daneblazer]

1. CBet around 60-70% of the pot. You could very well have the best hand now and you can't give a free card to anyone who could have an ace of spade hand.

2. Fold. You put out a pot size raise that didn't scare anyone away, were smooth called and on top of that you were reraised. The limp callers indicate they were probably set mining or nut peddling. That reraiser isn't afraid of the flush and usually at the worst he's defending against it with a set. He could have you beat with a made flush and either one of them could have the ace of spades. Your K of spades here doesn't mean much. Fold

[thetrinity]

1. CBet around 60-70% of the pot. You could very well have the best hand now and you can't give a free card to anyone who could have an ace of spade hand. 2. Fold. You put out a pot size raise that didn't scare anyone away, were smooth called and on top of that you were reraised. The limp callers indicate they were probably set mining or nut peddling. That reraiser isn't afraid of the flush and usually at the worst he's defending against it with a set. He could have you beat with a made flush and either one of them could have the ace of spades. Your K of spades here doesn't mean much. Fold

+1 to dane.

[wikkidinsane]

Yeh I can only see him having Ace of spades or and already already made flush. In both scenarios you are behind.

[lolguy999]

1. CBet around 60-70% of the pot. You could very well have the best hand now and you can't give a free card to anyone who could have an ace of spade hand. 2. Fold. You put out a pot size raise that didn't scare anyone away, were smooth called and on top of that you were reraised. The limp callers indicate they were probably set mining or nut peddling. That reraiser isn't afraid of the flush and usually at the worst he's defending against it with a set. He could have you beat with a made flush and either one of them could have the ace of spades. Your K of spades here doesn't mean much. Fold

Analyzed the situation like a true poker champ. Funny thing is I was actually playing at/for a friend's new pokerstars account and trying to demonstrate to him how Cash games are beatable and yes after 3 consecutive all in bad beats i made a fool out of myself... (AK : K on flop , QQ: overpair on flop, AQ : 2 pair flop lost to river set)

The donk player C had A2 of spades, giving him the nut flush. I know because i called due to tilt and other whatnot reasons... It did however cross my mind that he had only the A of spades or even the Q of spades and just didn't really give him credit for his whimpy plays... Good thing the guy understands that it was all part of variation and didnt hate me for... too much

[lolguy999]

on a side note i bet the pot to try to scare the lone A away or to make him pay but didn't work out that time i guess
Also kinda hoped the caller had the A instead and C only had like KJ which is very easily in his range of calling

[daneblazer]

The donk player C had A2 of spades, giving him the nut flush. I know because i called due to tilt and other whatnot reasons... It did however cross my mind that he had only the A of spades or even the Q of spades and just didn't really give him credit for his whimpy plays...

It's helpful to determine how passive or aggressive the "donk player" is. There are a lot of stations who call with a huge range of hands, but only play back at you with the stones. If the hand was heads up against a maniac or a "bomb" then you could have shoved over the top of him, but usually stations don't make aggressive plays unless they have something to play with. That guy who flat called your flop bet presents all sorts of problems too.

[Pirate Monk]

Scenario 1:

You should check. Statistically speaking, the chances of one of your opponents holding two spades at the flop are greater than a single remaining opponent holding the Ace of Spades itself - if you assume the latter, you should assume the former...and if you're assuming that...well...why would you bet?!? So, if another Spade were to show itself, this would "most likely" benefit you most. You could also find your set (which would obviously not be a spade). I understand that you want the maximum return and I also understand how easy it is for any player to become emotionally attached to pocket Ks...but fathom this...when you raise post-flop, you are making your opponent guess at your hands. There is nothing on the board that would scare someone with as little as a single Jack!!!

Scenario 2:

Fold and live to fight another hand.

[lolguy999]

I wonder if people will say different if C was only bluffing... lols

[Pirate Monk]

Heh...if C were bluffing, he would bluff half an hour later when you had top hand. You'd have all chips lost and then some.

[supershark]

Ya, tough call. Because its only a truly bad call if hes already made the flush, and its ace high. otherwise your what a 40% chance to hit a spade from there which is about where the pot odds are. I think youd have to call.
--- Maybe not though, because you should be fairly confident you are behind/ But I would also really doubt that he has the ace high flush, id guess a set or mid flush... because who tries to push people out with the nuts