[BeerDog99]

LOL.....

Since Black Friday I have see so many references from posters questioning the poker sites for their "shady" dealings and lack of ethics because they were hiding the poker transactions from the US government.

Then the people stating this, highlight this as proof as to the reason why they are being attacked by the US government and why they always knew they were guilty of "something".


duhhh!

These are just silly circular arguments to back up their negative point of view about FT and PS.


Newsflash, PS and FT, were doing all of these things because the US government has chosen to limit your freedoms.


There is no question that, if true, the poker sites were not smart and made very bad decisions but nowhere is anybody stating (with real proof nor in the indictments) that FT PS made away with illgotten gains or is a front for terrorists nor drug dealers, they were just doing what they thought they had to to enable their ability to serve their willing adult customers.


If the US goverment did not have the seemingly unending and puratanical desire to limit it's adult populations freedom to spend its own money on whatever they choose to we would not be in this situation.


Without the the UIGEA and the quasi-illegal gambling laws:


1) There would be more US jobs.

2) There would be more tax dollars generated for the US goverment.

3) The US citizens would be protected from REAL shady operators and also give the US law full recourse to charge/pursue REAL cheaters.

4) Further to point 3, the US would be able to extradite the criminals in other countries because the broken laws would be similar and they would get support from the other governments (wow working together with other countries, what a novel concept).

5) All US operating gaming sites would have to have their RNG's certified and properly regulated. (again protecting its citizens)


I could probably go on but those seem to me to be the biggest positives. Just think how well Alcohol Prohobition worked for the US economy, protecting citizens from evil people and the evils of alcohol.


Just my opinion, cheers.

[lcscanada]

You are an IDIOT.
Why don't they let companies look at the RNG if it's RANDOM?
Why did they lie about the funds being frozen, when they could have paid back all the players?
BECAUSE THEY ILLEGALLY INVESTED THEM, AND DID NOT KEEP THEM IN SEGREGATED ACCOUNTS
WHY after billions of hands, is every hand, with an 80% plus advantage pre flop or on the flop LOSE 50% of the time.
BILLIONS OF HANDS, so don't give me that variance crap.

Wake up idiot.

[BeerDog99]

such class.

[BeerDog99]

also circular argument again. If it was fully legal and fully regulated in the US, this segregation of accounts would be a given and enforced.

Also, everything you state in your well reasoned post is hearsay. You do not have any facts/evidence to back it up.

My points still hold, the company's were not caught taking money from their customers and if the US government would just allow their citizens to spend their money as they see fit, the safety of the money and the legal protections of the players would be there if there is a problem with a site.

Just look at the Absolute Poker scandal, has anybody been brought to trial? If poker was legal and regulated, you bet your ass Russ Hamilton et al would have very sore asses in jail right now.

Again, just my opinion, I am allowed one, just like you.

[nomeansno]

WHY after billions of hands, is every hand, with an 80% plus advantage pre flop or on the flop LOSE 50% of the time.
BILLIONS OF HANDS, so don't give me that variance crap.

Lol pure gold. You played these hands yourself?

[daneblazer]

They're guilty because Jesus doesn't approve of people who don't pay taxes

[Inspirited]

You are an IDIOT.
Why don't they let companies look at the RNG if it's RANDOM?
Why did they lie about the funds being frozen, when they could have paid back all the players?
BECAUSE THEY ILLEGALLY INVESTED THEM, AND DID NOT KEEP THEM IN SEGREGATED ACCOUNTS
WHY after billions of hands, is every hand, with an 80% plus advantage pre flop or on the flop LOSE 50% of the time.
BILLIONS OF HANDS, so don't give me that variance crap.

Wake up idiot.

it's so phuchin sad that you are calling someone an idiot.

[Czu81]

You are an IDIOT.
Why don't they let companies look at the RNG if it's RANDOM?
Why did they lie about the funds being frozen, when they could have paid back all the players?
BECAUSE THEY ILLEGALLY INVESTED THEM, AND DID NOT KEEP THEM IN SEGREGATED ACCOUNTS
WHY after billions of hands, is every hand, with an 80% plus advantage pre flop or on the flop LOSE 50% of the time.
BILLIONS OF HANDS, so don't give me that variance crap.

Wake up idiot.

man wtf u are doing here? please stop posting!

[LLXC]

Lol pure gold. You played these hands yourself?

Guy was a fish at PS/FT and is now crying...I mean, seriously, websites that go over hand histories would have detected such silly claims...

[Richards]

with an 80% plus advantage pre flop or on the flop LOSE 50% of the time.
BILLIONS OF HANDS, so don't give me that variance crap.

Wake up idiot.

Hmmmm, apparently the reverse of your statement is that if my hand is 20% to win, I'll WIN 50% of the time, right? Sounds pretty +EV. I gotta login to poker right now!


I Ddo agree it's a major problem that the poker sites RNG/software certifications are basically a bunch of hand waving that proves nothing.

[BeerDog99]

I Ddo agree it's a major problem that the poker sites RNG/software certifications are basically a bunch of hand waving that proves nothing.

I agree with this, legalization and regulation would fix this. Let's get it out in the open and shine some light on this to put it to bed once and for all.

Cheers.

[apkboston]

You are an IDIOT.
Why don't they let companies look at the RNG if it's RANDOM?
Why did they lie about the funds being frozen, when they could have paid back all the players?
BECAUSE THEY ILLEGALLY INVESTED THEM, AND DID NOT KEEP THEM IN SEGREGATED ACCOUNTS
WHY after billions of hands, is every hand, with an 80% plus advantage pre flop or on the flop LOSE 50% of the time.
BILLIONS OF HANDS, so don't give me that variance crap.

Wake up idiot.

this post gives me hope, i know that i will always be able to make money at poker

[trixtrix]

read the indictment, stars and ft are guilty of everything from money laundering to prostitution, i'm really glad u.s gov't decided to tackle this at a difficult time during many conflicts in the middle-east, shows that we're not forgetting the war at home!

[Lockitup1x]

BeerDog99 - well said, you make some good points.

Would you agree that freedoms are being restricted in this case primarily because of greed?

[BeerDog99]

BeerDog99 - well said, you make some good points.

Would you agree that freedoms are being restricted in this case primarily because of greed?

I am not sure, I have always shook my head and wondered on a lot of things coming through the US government, politics in general and news outlets.

To me, there is a split between the many nice/smart/helpful americans that I know and work with to what I see coming out of the US.

The politicians are not acting in the best interest and defending freedoms of it's citizens. It seems that Republicans are the most vociferously against big government apparently to lower taxes and increase personal freedoms yet entirely the opposite has happened.

Also separation of church and state, a key tennant of the US constitution, seems to be constantly erroding and the Christian right is gaining more and more power within politics. Just look at the attitude/questions/scandal around Obama's religion and birth location.

Also regarding the "money/greed" factor, along with the religious right, corporations seem to have the most direct and indirect power/influence within US government policies and actions. This goes directly against the greater good for 95% of its citizens, yet some of the people hardest hit by the havok of the US enconomy have supported what is not in their best financial/security best interests.

If it is generally agreed that the US debt/deficit is one of the biggest problems, why in anybody's view shouldn't the richest 5% of the population pay more/some tax to help shoulder the burden? Same thing with the massive corporations that pay no tax!!??

So in my humble opionion, the macro-level cause of all this is two fold, the religious right being allowed to control your freedoms (by not allowing adults to gamble as you desire) and the corporations controlling how this "crackdown" is happenning so that the rich are allowed to profit more (i.e. carveouts for other forms of gambling and also setting up the existing B&M gambling establishments being allowed to set themselves up in the vacum).

All of this (and more), should bother every Republican, Demorcrat, Libertarian, etc, your freedoms are constantly being eroded and the stratification between classes and who has the power and money is constantly growing.

The scarey thing to me is that questions about real freedoms (except for guns) and the general good of the country are not even being questioned. All americans should be driving their politicians and political parties to represent them and not the special interest lobby groups and the corporations.

Just my opinion, nothing more (no flames needed).

[steve18]

People who actually paid their taxes and did it legally deserve some incentive for doing the right thing in my opinion.

[daneblazer]

The scarey thing to me is that questions about real freedoms (except for guns) and the general good of the country are not even being questioned. All americans should be driving their politicians and political parties to represent them and not the special interest lobby groups and the corporations.

Just my opinion, nothing more (no flames needed).

Not trying to toot my horn, but I have a masters degree in American politics (which I don't use) and I've left that field a long time ago. On the above quote, outside of a revolt, how will that get accomplished? The corporations send in the pork, so their issues will get pushed through first. All of this is a nice thought, but ultimately the politicians could give a damn unless you're sending them money

[BeerDog99]

Not trying to toot my horn, but I have a masters degree in American politics (which I don't use) and I've left that field a long time ago. On the above quote, outside of a revolt, how will that get accomplished? The corporations send in the pork, so their issues will get pushed through first. All of this is a nice thought, but ultimately the politicians could give a damn unless you're sending them money

While I am not educated in politics nor am I a political wonk that lives and breathes this stuff, I understand what you are saying. I am not that naive.

That said, I thought the politicians respond to votes or lack thereof along with money.

Also my point is that in the popular discussion (i.e. on news nor in conversations with Americans that I know), I never hear about the concern about freedom, just inane discussions like we see in these various thread about conspiracy theories and how evil PS and FT are.

People are missing the bigger and more important points...

Cheers.

[daneblazer]

Money buys votes. The hard D's and R's are going to vote for their candidate no matter who it is. The few undecided or independent will be persuaded by a whoever has a good campaign. Then the big thing is getting the D or R leaners to get off their asses and get to the voting booth. That's where money in a campaign matters. Outside of the PPA, which is a futile effort sometimes, there are no online players or online sites pushing money to politicians to legalize poker. There are however, casinos who have a large legislative affairs division and states who are desperate for cash and will resort to about any measure left to get funds, even if that means to legalize gambling. So we have the PPA and online players against the well funded casinos, states who want a piece of the action, and religious organizations. We basically have a hand full of players who do this for a living and thousands of players who play poker as a hobby but will never mobilize (and even if they did, it would be a blip on the election map) against a huge religious right and well funded lobbying groups. There's far more people against online poker or just don't care than there are for it. For a poker player, it's just not a good situation.

[daneblazer]

fwiw, I don't disagree with your points, if anything, I'm reinforcing them.

[BeerDog99]

agreed Dane. Cheers.

[jackpot269]

Interesting thread