1. #1
    Louie Diamond
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    Direct question for Jay Cohen.

    Years ago you wrote a thesis on the eminent demise of reduced juice books as well as books offering bonuses causing a run on their banks.

    Were you right or wrong on your theory?
    Last edited by Louie Diamond; 01-11-06 at 02:04 PM.

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  2. #2
    tacomax
    SBR Problem Poster 2007-08
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    A Jay vs Louie forum would be an excellent idea.

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  3. #3
    freebie
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    Where is my video equipment section would be best.

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  4. #4
    tacomax
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    Yeah, maybe a "Lost and Found" section.

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  5. #5
    Louie Diamond
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    Guys, Pay attention. we know where the equipment is. The Secret Service has it. What we don't know is, where is almighty JC?

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  6. #6
    JC
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    I'm here, I was just about to type a response.

    I'll be with you in a few minutes.

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  7. #7
    JC
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    I'd say I was right.

    Look at how many books have failed since then. Please include the ones that were absorbed by other books in "takeunders." Most if not all of the books that have failed were giving away the store, either with high bonuses, low juice, or both. Obviously they were all under-capitalized if at all, but their giveaway programs accelerated their demise.

    Of the ones that are still out there, how many are solvent? Do you know? How many could pay out all of their customers tomorrow and still have a couple of dollars in the bank? I estimate only 15% of all books are solvent, I'd say that number is considerably lower for the Xmas everyday operations.

    The only book to have any success with a low juice model is Pinnacle. I use the term book loosely. As I have explained many times Pinnacle is a gambling operation that uses their sportsbook to get their action down. Any money they make booking is gravy. If they break even on booking and make money gambling, they are happy. They probably make a little money on their incidental booking during a normal year. They also don't have the expenses of a full service book, namely a full phone staff and the monthly phone bill that comes with a telephone operation. Their customer service is 100% email. Try and get someone on the phone there if you have a problem, it may happen but it may be easier to get an audience with the Pope.

    Math is math. A book that offers a 10 cent line has a theoretical hold of 2.4%. In a bad year that figure can easily drop below 1%. That's BEFORE expenses. The cost of operating offshore is very expensive. Money transfer fees can approach 1% of handle. Then there are little things like office, telecommunications, staff, marketing, bonuses, software, hardware, fraud, and a bunch of little stuff I am forgetting at this hour.

    As I said in another thread, it takes no skill to sell dollar bills for 90 cents.

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  8. #8
    Louie Diamond
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    Jay,
    I must say I appreciate that you're man enough to not dodge this question with your ad hominem name calling this time. Actually, I've unexpectedly been thrown for a loop and need some time to word my response with my thoughts. Unfortunately, I'm a little busy being a never been for my nothing wife and four nobody children right now and don't have the time to commit to an actual debate.

    Strange, most of the time you guys are easy targets. Either you're calling me names, running away (Major, Mike from Nine.com) or banning me for fear of the truth (Major, Shrink, Peep, Rx....) My previous responses were like cutting butter with a hot knife. I'm not dodging you, nor do I agree with your comments. Though some of it may have merit. Rest assured, I will bring this back up soon with my thoughts.

    Btw, by the lack of debate here it seems we may be a little above our audiences head. But that never stopped me before.

    Meanwhile, if you don't mind. Ask your friends at WSEX the % of players that actually win there and the avg. post up. Would love to see the numbers.

    Enjoy your time off.

    SBR Founder Join Date: 12/26/2005


  9. #9
    DudleyDawson
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    Quote Originally Posted by JC View Post
    I'd say I was right.

    Look at how many books have failed since then. Please include the ones that were absorbed by other books in "takeunders." Most if not all of the books that have failed were giving away the store, either with high bonuses, low juice, or both. Obviously they were all under-capitalized if at all, but their giveaway programs accelerated their demise.

    Of the ones that are still out there, how many are solvent? Do you know? How many could pay out all of their customers tomorrow and still have a couple of dollars in the bank? I estimate only 15% of all books are solvent, I'd say that number is considerably lower for the Xmas everyday operations.

    The only book to have any success with a low juice model is pinnacle. I use the term book loosely. As I have explained many times Pinnacle is a gambling operation that uses their sportsbook to get their action down. Any money they make booking is gravy. If they break even on booking and make money gambling, they are happy. They probably make a little money on their incidental booking during a normal year. They also don't have the expenses of a full service book, namely a full phone staff and the monthly phone bill that comes with a telephone operation. Their customer service is 100% email. Try and get someone on the phone there if you have a problem, it may happen but it may be easier to get an audience with the Pope.

    Math is math. A book that offers a 10 cent line has a theoretical hold of 2.4%. In a bad year that figure can easily drop below 1%. That's BEFORE expenses. The cost of operating offshore is very expensive. Money transfer fees can approach 1% of handle. Then there are little things like office, telecommunications, staff, marketing, bonuses, software, hardware, fraud, and a bunch of little stuff I am forgetting at this hour.

    As I said in another thread, it takes no skill to sell dollar bills for 90 cents.
    One of the best gambling forum quotes ever..

    Cohen, you fukk...where did you go?

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