[MinnesotaFats]

Every extra inning guy on 2nd. Never bunt him over.

What's the thought process?

[lakerboy]

They have advanced stats now. In the old days everyone was retarded

[mrpapageorgio]

Every extra inning guy on 2nd. Never bunt him over.

What's the thought process?

I don't get it either, but my thought is there's probably Sabermetrics they have that says it's +EV to try and make contact with a swing rather than what is likely a sac bunt.

One thing I have heard pondered, but haven't seen yet is whether you intentionally walk the first batter to try and setup the double play.

Another similar scenario to the bunt in extras that has driven me crazy when you see an infield shift on a batter that's strong on the first base side leaving third base wide open because the hitter usually hits it to the right. Then why not have the batter try to bunt down 3B and throw the defense off?

[juicername]

Bottom of extras if still tied should be a no brainer bunt though?

[KVB]

They do bunt them over.

We've seen them use the sac fly and sac bunt to get the run in.

But then the bottom of the inning the home team does the same.

Then we end up with an OVER when inevitably we were on the UNDER.

LMAO.

[KVB]

Point being it does happen.

[clockwise1965]

Watched the Twins tonight. No one bunted in extra innings.

Strange

[Eddy Munny]

Probably easier for the defense to throw to third for the out.

[clockwise1965]

Probably easier for the defense to throw to third for the out.

good point

[El Nino]

Nobody knows how to do it anymore. Bottom of the inning, need 1 run to win the only time statistically it makes sense which, until this year with new extras rule was rare. Heard a stat when the Dodgers were playing the Astros in extras that combined last season, those two teams had 11 sac bunts by non pitchers. May as well ask a batter to hit Chapman's 101 mph fastball with their rooster. It's no longer a skill set.

[RangeFinder]

It's a losing play. Metrics.

[MinnesotaFats]

Watched the Twins tonight. No one bunted in extra innings.

Strange

This

Milwaukee comes back to tie it and has Hader in the pen.

Get the lead, steal the win. They failed in 10, 11 inning.

Just stupid

[MinnesotaFats]

It's a losing play. Metrics.

It is in no way a losing play.

Guy on 3rd 1 out is a much better scoring % than guy on 2nd no outs.

[Eddy Munny]

It is in no way a losing play.

Guy on 3rd 1 out is a much better scoring % than guy on 2nd no outs.

A throw to 2nd base (from where a catcher/pitcher would generally scoop up a bunt) is considerably longer than a throw to 3rd base, which might be why it's statistically a losing proposition for the offense. I don't even watch baseball but that seems like the most obvious explanation.

[dlowilly]

Because it isn't high school baseball, I'm not saying that to be a smartass either

It's a lot different trying to bunt a pitch that could be anything in between a 95 mph fastball and 83 mph slider in MLB compared to a 70 MAYBE 80 mph fastball or hanging curve in high school

In MLB you have one route to success bunting in that situation. The bunt is executed and the runner goes to third and ur out at first. Yeah you could get lucky with a perfect bunt and run it out to first but it's probably statistically insignificant. You could also strike out or foul out which happens quite a bit against MLB pitching compared to lower levels, and then you just made an out never giving the hitter a chance to do more than move the runner up.

But if you swing away you could hit a sac fly that moves the runner whereas a bunt pop up would not, you could get a hit probably scoring the runner at second instead of just moving him up and you have another runner on base with no outs, or you could hit a HR scoring 2 and greatly increase your chances of winning compared to trading outs for one run.

I think the strategy changes though if you are the home team and the visitors failed to score. Then all you need is one run and I would probably bunt then like juicername said.

Looking at the Astros and Twins tonight, I think it was retarded if they didn't bunt him over to third with the first batter (I'm only looking at the stats so can't tell if they bunted), but everyone knows the Astros are a bunch of idiots and Minnesota is probably punchy from all the George Floyd nonsense.

[Ghenghis Kahn]

Probably the same reason why NFL teams now think it's better to go for two point conversions after TDs being down two TDs in the 4th quarter or NBA players fouling with 24 seconds left being down double digits...

They do it to make things more exciting for the bettors. Uncertainty drives us all... That is why humans are nothing but dopamine junkies.

Bottom line, don't ask questions and don't watch games you have money on. That will help you keep your sanity. GL

[MinnesotaFats]

A throw to 2nd base (from where a catcher/pitcher would generally scoop up a bunt) is considerably longer than a throw to 3rd base, which might be why it's statistically a losing proposition for the offense. I don't even watch baseball but that seems like the most obvious explanation.

?? What the hell are you talking about?

Why are we throwing to second? Why is the pitcher or catcher fielding the bunt?

MLB literally puts a guy on 2nd base. Bunt the ball to thec1st baseman. Guy on 3rd 1 out. You get a shot at a sac fly w next dude and if that fails a shot at a hit or error. You also get 2 shots at wild pitch.

Or...as the current group of mlb boneheads does, you let 3 guys who strikeout 100 times a year just swing away...

Just stupid baseball

[Ghenghis Kahn]

A throw to 2nd base (from where a catcher/pitcher would generally scoop up a bunt) is considerably longer than a throw to 3rd base, which might be why it's statistically a losing proposition for the offense. I don't even watch baseball but that seems like the most obvious explanation.

Let's say the game is tied and you have runner on 2nd, no outs, why would you not risk getting that runner to third? The chance of scoring from 3rd with 1 out is so much greater. I suppose it's the same concept as why don't teams foul being up 3 points with couple seconds left on the clock? Maybe it's an unwritten rule? Who knows...

[cincinnatikid513]

cuz baseball is terrible, everybody plays for the home run nobody plays small ball anymore

MLB's league-wide batting average sat at a paltry .238 entering Thursday, the lowest mark since 1968 (.237) — a season so dominated by pitchers that the mound was lowered the very next year to even the playing field.
By the numbers: MLB's strikeout rate (23.4%) is on track to set a record for the 12th consecutive season, and the current walk rate (9.2%) would be the ninth-highest mark since 1950.

• On top of that, BABIP (batting average on balls in play) is just .283 at the moment, which would be the lowest since 1989.
• In conclusion, not many balls are being put in play, and the ones that are being put in play have resulted in outs at near-historic levels.

[Eddy Munny]

?? What the hell are you talking about?

Why are we throwing to second? Why is the pitcher or catcher fielding the bunt?

MLB literally puts a guy on 2nd base. Bunt the ball to thec1st baseman. Guy on 3rd 1 out. You get a shot at a sac fly w next dude and if that fails a shot at a hit or error. You also get 2 shots at wild pitch.

Or...as the current group of mlb boneheads does, you let 3 guys who strikeout 100 times a year just swing away...

Just stupid baseball

I told you I don't watch baseball, but when I used to watch baseball, it sure as hell wasn't the center fielder coming up to field the bunt. The ball was usually in the domain of the catcher. That being said, you'd usually take the easy out at first if you're the defense (hence the sac bunt) rather than a throw to 2nd which is a low percentage play. However, a throw to 3rd might actually pick off the runner because it's closer to the plate. In a tie ballgame in extra innings, that throw to third is a chance a catcher might be willing to take.

If that still doesn't make sense, then the game has passed me by. I'm pretty sure the field dimensions are the same though.

[dlowilly]

I told you I don't watch baseball, but when I used to watch baseball, it sure as hell wasn't the center fielder coming up to field the bunt. The ball was usually in the domain of the catcher. That being said, you'd usually take the easy out at first if you're the defense (hence the sac bunt) rather than a throw to 2nd which is a low percentage play. However, a throw to 3rd might actually pick off the runner because it's closer to the plate. In a tie ballgame in extra innings, that throw to third is a chance a catcher might be willing to take.

If that still doesn't make sense, then the game has passed me by. I'm pretty sure the field dimensions are the same though.

Eddy, I honestly think ur one of the sharpest posters on here

But I'm pretty sure ur high on something right now though so enjoy

[Eddy Munny]

Summary: The distance from home plate to 2nd base is greater than the distance from home plate to 3rd base.

That's basically it.

It stands to reason that it would be easier to pick off a runner at 3rd than 2nd if we're in the vicinity of home plate.

I dunno... do bunts sail just over the wall nowadays? Are the guys still juicing?

[cincinnatikid513]

Summary: The distance from home plate to 2nd base is greater than the distance from home plate to 3rd base.

That's basically it.

It stands to reason that it would be easier to pick off a runner at 3rd than 2nd if we're in the vicinity of home plate.

I dunno... do bunts sail just over the wall nowadays? Are the guys still juicing?

nobody can bunt, players don't hit the ball other way it's bad home run or strike out

[Eddy Munny]

nobody can bunt, players don't hit the ball other way it's bad home run or strike out

I don't know what this sentence means.

[eidolon]

sac bunt, then suicide bunt?

[dlowilly]

Summary: The distance from home plate to 2nd base is greater than the distance from home plate to 3rd base.

That's basically it.

It stands to reason that it would be easier to pick off a runner at 3rd than 2nd if we're in the vicinity of home plate.

I dunno... do bunts sail just over the wall nowadays? Are the guys still juicing?

OK I think I see what ur getting at

But it would have to be a pretty terrible bunt for a runner on 2nd with a lead and a running start for a bunt and run to get thrown out at 3rd. Big difference between throwing out the hitter at first who is starting from the batters box probably more than 90 feet away (for a righty) compared to the around only 70 feet the runner on 2nd has to cover once there is contact.

[dlowilly]

sac bunt, then suicide bunt?

Might make sense for the home team if they know one run wins. Visiting team shouldn't though

[eidolon]

Might make sense for the home team if they know one run wins. Visiting team shouldn't though

I agree with this being more of a move for the home team.

[swordsandtequila]

Nobody knows how to do it anymore. Bottom of the inning, need 1 run to win the only time statistically it makes sense which, until this year with new extras rule was rare. Heard a stat when the Dodgers were playing the Astros in extras that combined last season, those two teams had 11 sac bunts by non pitchers. May as well ask a batter to hit Chapman's 101 mph fastball with their rooster. It's no longer a skill set.

[pologq]

Nobody knows how to do it anymore. Bottom of the inning, need 1 run to win the only time statistically it makes sense which, until this year with new extras rule was rare. Heard a stat when the Dodgers were playing the Astros in extras that combined last season, those two teams had 11 sac bunts by non pitchers. May as well ask a batter to hit Chapman's 101 mph fastball with their rooster. It's no longer a skill set.

this. it is not taught as much anymore and/or guys are not comfortable attempting it as a result. same reason why guys don't bunt or half swing to third base to get a single when it is wide open against the shift.

[thetrinity]

Indians did a squeeze bunt on Sunday night baseball, but they had guys at first and third with one out as the away team. Really depends on who you have up IMO. The away team doing this is ridiculous to start the inning. You would think it’s a no brainer for the home team if it’s tied, but most guys can’t do it.

[d2bets]

It is in no way a losing play.

Guy on 3rd 1 out is a much better scoring % than guy on 2nd no outs.

Correct. If you are in a you score, you win situation, and you are highly likely to succeed, it makes sense. But that's not the situation in the top of the 10th. One run could be fools gold. But in a tie game in the bottom of the inning, yes if the batter is a good bunter. But your stat only works if the batter has a 100% success rate. Now figure in the odds that he fails and makes out, or worse the runner is gunned down at 3rd.

[TheLock]

Giving the other team a free out when you already have a runner in scoring position is dumb. That’s why.

[Chi_archie]

runner on 2nd 0 outs expected runs

0-73%
1-14.6%
2-6.75%
3-3.08%
4-1.3%


runner on 3rd 1 out
0-35%
1-47%
2-9.6%
3-4.3%
4- 1.7%


in a man on 2nd 0 out bunting situation, the lead runner is cut down 4.1% of the time and 10.7% of the time the runner does not get advanced and the out is made at first. So 85.2% of the time the sac bunt works.


so if you are playing for just 1 run, there is a small edge to the sac bunt overall after the success rate is considered.

situational factors have to be considered for sure and can easily outweigh the less definitive metrics. obviously all the top of the bottom of the inning scenarios

how good of a bunter is up
how good of a hitter is he
is he lefty? good contact rate?
how good of a hitter is up next
how fast of a runner is on 2nd
is it a 2-2 game or 9-9 game
how good of a pitcher are you facing
what is the pitcher's K rate?

you also may need to think ahead to the following inning, if you are playing to get the game from 3-2 up to 3-3. Will the opposing team have someone super fast like Billy Hamilton on 2nd? who is due up 1,2,3 for them. ect.

Its definitely a decision that a manager has plenty of things to factor in and go with his intuition or natural tendencies without it being an auto metric play

[MinnesotaFats]

sac bunt, then suicide bunt?

Twins did a suicide squeeze last night in like the 6th or 7th