1. #1
    konck
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    Is Strasburg having a bad year or........

    Do you feel Strasburg is having a bad year????? Last year was good if he didnt shut down he was in the hunt for the Cy Young. Lets look at the numbers....Last year ERA 3.16 this year 2.97 (better) last years WHIP 1.15 this year 1.13 (better) Last years BAA .230 this years .220 (better). He is of course 5-7 this year but the Nats offense is really bad. The only drop off he has is strike outs but he is still 1k per inning which is very good in the bigs. I feel like everyone is thinking this guy went in the tank he hasnt Harvey will push him for highest avg Fast ball though. The Nats will baby this guy again I feel like if they drop any more he gets shut down again at the end to be safe

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  2. #2
    konck
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    At home this year ERA 1.75 Whip 0.96 BAA 210

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  3. #3
    pavyracer
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    Why do people point out individual stats when baseball is a team game? Lets compare how many games his team won when he was pitching instead. Wins matter. Stats don't.

  4. #4
    cala56
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    Nobody is perfect. He is in a little bud RUN. Still been the best in NL.
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  5. #5
    konck
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    Quote Originally Posted by pavyracer View Post
    Why do people point out individual stats when baseball is a team game? Lets compare how many games his team won when he was pitching instead. Wins matter. Stats don't.
    Pitching is the biggest part of the game....Pitching isnt a team sport

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  6. #6
    pavyracer
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    Quote Originally Posted by konck View Post
    Pitching is the biggest part of the game....Pitching isnt a team sport
    Is it because pitchers catch all fly balls and turn all ground-outs into double plays?

  7. #7
    Big Bear
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    He is mentally weak and physically fragile.

  8. #8
    face
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    he is good but teams grind him down, taking and fouling off pitches and get to the bullpen in 6th 7th or 8th and do damage then. at least in the games i've seen.

  9. #9
    infamousbacardi
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    Quote Originally Posted by pavyracer View Post
    Why do people point out individual stats when baseball is a team game? Lets compare how many games his team won when he was pitching instead. Wins matter. Stats don't.
    Kind of a stupid argument really. So if Andy Pettite went out and gave up 10 runs in 3 innings pitched EVERY time he took the mound for 6 weeks to start a season, he'd still have a job in that rotation because his team was 8-0 in his 8 starts even though his ERA was 30.00?

    Uh, no.

    Strasburg's ERA is still sub-3.00. He was roughed up a little earlier in the year, and I think most people, myself included, remember that quite well but haven't focused on his since-then success. Still a solid year for him, yes.
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  10. #10
    konck
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    Quote Originally Posted by pavyracer View Post
    Is it because pitchers catch all fly balls and turn ground-outs into double plays?
    Its because when I bet its mostly on pitchers. Yes sometime I bet on streaks or hot batting teams but 85% im betting on the talent of the pitcher what good is it if your team field 100% and hits 320 if you have a gas can on the mound. Betting MLB comes down to pitching penetrate that team shit the only difference is when the team is bad you get a better price.
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  11. #11
    infamousbacardi
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    Quote Originally Posted by konck View Post
    Its because when I bet its mostly on pitchers. Yes sometime I bet on streaks or hot batting teams but 85% im betting on the talent of the pitcher what good is it if your team field 100% and hits 320 if you have a gas can on the mound. Betting MLB comes down to pitching penetrate that team shit the only difference is when the team is bad you get a better price.
    Felix Hernandez could be starting vs. Drew Pomeranz, and I can promise you if that game is in Colorado you'll still get a decent number on Seattle.

    To discount pitching match-ups because baseball is a team game is one of the dumbest sports-betting related things I've read on the forum in a while.
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  12. #12
    konck
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    Look at the kid from the Marlins last night put this guy on St Lou he is an avg -170 you get lots of good numbers because he is on the Marlins so what is more important pitching or team?

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  13. #13
    pavyracer
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    Quote Originally Posted by konck View Post
    Its because when I bet its mostly on pitchers. Yes sometime I bet on streaks or hot batting teams but 85% im betting on the talent of the pitcher what good is it if your team field 100% and hits 320 if you have a gas can on the mound. Betting MLB comes down to pitching penetrate that team shit the only difference is when the team is bad you get a better price.
    I know Tim Hudson of the Braves this year went 10 starts without a win with an ERA in the low 2.0's so if you are betting on him strictly on his pitching you would have lost money. Baseball is still a team effort game. You can be the best pitcher in the world but if your team is not fielding right or not hitting you are not going to get wins.

  14. #14
    face
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    Quote Originally Posted by konck View Post
    Its because when I bet its mostly on pitchers. Yes sometime I bet on streaks or hot batting teams but 85% im betting on the talent of the pitcher what good is it if your team field 100% and hits 320 if you have a gas can on the mound. Betting MLB comes down to pitching penetrate that team shit the only difference is when the team is bad you get a better price.
    ff innings is the pitching/hitting battle, after that bullpens are a huge factor, just watch any indians, tigers, mets, angels game. i'm sure you know that, but still, throw pitching stats out the window if you're betting the whole game, esp w/ certain teams

    also defense is a huge factor, orioles stop a lot of runs when they have pretty average pitching

  15. #15
    pavyracer
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    Quote Originally Posted by infamousbacardi View Post
    Kind of a stupid argument really. So if Andy Pettite went out and gave up 10 runs in 3 innings pitched EVERY time he took the mound for 6 weeks to start a season, he'd still have a job in that rotation because his team was 8-0 in his 8 starts even though his ERA was 30.00?

    Uh, no.

    Strasburg's ERA is still sub-3.00. He was roughed up a little earlier in the year, and I think most people, myself included, remember that quite well but haven't focused on his since-then success. Still a solid year for him, yes.
    Can you point a pitcher who was released after starting the season 8-0 for his team?

  16. #16
    infamousbacardi
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    Quote Originally Posted by pavyracer View Post
    I know Tim Hudson of the Braves this year went 10 starts without a win with an ERA in the low 2.0's so if you are betting on him strictly on his pitching you would have lost money. Baseball is still a team effort game. You can be the best pitcher in the world but if your team is not fielding right or not hitting you are not going to get wins.
    Yes but the betting profit game is about angles...you can argue one (or a few) instances where a guy was lights out on the mound (say he gives up one run in 8 IP every game), but if his "TEAM" scores 0 runs, yes...he's going to lose every game.

    However, if you could tell me before the game that Pitcher X was going to go 8 IP tonight and give up 1 run, yeah, I'd bet on that guy every night, and in the long run, you'll do awfully well I imagine.
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  17. #17
    infamousbacardi
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    Quote Originally Posted by pavyracer View Post
    Can you point a pitcher who was released after starting the season 8-0 for his team?
    Can you point to a pitcher who had an ERA of 30.00 through 8 starts? It's a hypothetical.
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  18. #18
    pavyracer
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    Quote Originally Posted by infamousbacardi View Post
    Can you point to a pitcher who had an ERA of 30.00 through 8 starts? It's a hypothetical.
    Exactly. My point is if a pitcher is winning you shouldn't be looking at his stats. Is a 8-5 Strasburg with a 2.97 ERA a better pitcher than a 10-4 Starsburg with a 3.11 ERA?

  19. #19
    infamousbacardi
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    Quote Originally Posted by pavyracer View Post
    Can you point a pitcher who was released after starting the season 8-0 for his team?
    I can also tell you that since 1939 there have only been 12 pitchers in the entire league to have posted ERAs of 6.00 or above to have EVER won 10 games in a season...

    I think the point is pretty clear.
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  20. #20
    konck
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    Quote Originally Posted by pavyracer View Post
    I know Tim Hudson of the Braves this year went 10 starts without a win with an ERA in the low 2.0's so if you are betting on him strictly on his pitching you would have lost money. Baseball is still a team effort game. You can be the best pitcher in the world but if your team is not fielding right or not hitting you are not going to get wins.
    Hudsons ERA is 4 they hit 250 vs him I really dont lay juice so he isnt in my thinking most of the times but those stats are the same as the year before or close .....you can always find exceptions in MLB but if your looking for valuein your MLB plays its in the pitching. The more you study and know about pitching the better off you are hands down.

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  21. #21
    infamousbacardi
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    Quote Originally Posted by pavyracer View Post
    Exactly. My point is if a pitcher is winning you shouldn't be looking at his stats. Is a 8-5 Strasburg with a 2.97 ERA a better pitcher than a 10-4 Starsburg with a 3.11 ERA?
    Hahahahah. YES!

    Record is almost USELESS for pitchers! Why do you think sabermetrics have become so popular in MLB?

    Would you rather have a Strasburg that is 0-0 and has a 0.00 ERA that leaves every game in the 8th inning of an entire season having NEVER given up a run but the bullpen behind him blows 80% of the games he pitches in during the 9th inning, or a Strasburg that is 8-5 with a 2.97 ERA?
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  22. #22
    face
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    good example is angels game tonight, weaver is pretty solid 3.3 era but is 4-5, if twins get him out of the game by the 7th they could win, angels bullpen has a 3.89 era. also, maybe shuck will do something wrong in the outfield and give up a run that way, i have seen him make some horrendous errors fielding.

  23. #23
    infamousbacardi
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    Quote Originally Posted by face View Post
    good example is angels game tonight, weaver is pretty solid 3.3 era but is 4-5, if twins get him out of the game by the 7th they could win, angels bullpen has a 3.89 era. also, maybe shuck will do something wrong in the outfield and give up a run that way, i have seen him make some horrendous errors fielding.
    Yes but Angles are -265 tonight. Anyone playing that line for real money is a schmuck.
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  24. #24
    Smoke
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    Quote Originally Posted by konck View Post
    Look at the kid from the Marlins last night put this guy on St Lou he is an avg -170 you get lots of good numbers because he is on the Marlins so what is more important pitching or team?
    Good point knocker

  25. #25
    d2bets
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    Quote Originally Posted by pavyracer View Post
    Why do people point out individual stats when baseball is a team game? Lets compare how many games his team won when he was pitching instead. Wins matter. Stats don't.
    Sorry, I just don't agree with this if we're talking about evaluating a player going forward. If he loses a game 1-0, is that really his fault? Would you praise him more if he gave up 6 runs in 5 innings but got the win?

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  26. #26
    konck
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    Quote Originally Posted by face View Post
    good example is angels game tonight, weaver is pretty solid 3.3 era but is 4-5, if twins get him out of the game by the 7th they could win, angels bullpen has a 3.89 era. also, maybe shuck will do something wrong in the outfield and give up a run that way, i have seen him make some horrendous errors fielding.
    Weavers skill are dwindling for sure ....But to me he is really studying the game now. I mean every pitch this guy reminds me of Greg Maddux (The Professor)he really studies every pitch you can see it in his face. But laying that kind of wood is a complete joke even if they win you can have it. I was actually think small play against the Angels tonight.

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  27. #27
    face
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    yeah i was making a case to bet the twins

  28. #28
    d2bets
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    Quote Originally Posted by pavyracer View Post
    Exactly. My point is if a pitcher is winning you shouldn't be looking at his stats. Is a 8-5 Strasburg with a 2.97 ERA a better pitcher than a 10-4 Starsburg with a 3.11 ERA?
    So is John Lester (W/L 9-6) having a better season than Chris Sale (W/L 6-9)?

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  29. #29
    pavyracer
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    Quote Originally Posted by d2bets View Post
    So is John Lester (W/L 9-6) having a better season than Chris Sale (W/L 6-9)?
    Winning heals all wounds.

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  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by pavyracer View Post
    Is it because pitchers catch all fly balls and turn all ground-outs into double plays?
    Are you asking if pitchers can induce ground balls? Do you even watch baseball? Of course pitchers can influence how a ball is hit. Roy Halladay was known as a ground ball inducing pitcher. Get a fukking clue, pal.

    Quote Originally Posted by pavyracer View Post
    Why do people point out individual stats when baseball is a team game? Lets compare how many games his team won when he was pitching instead. Wins matter. Stats don't.
    You are completely out of touch. I actually think I've had this argument with you before. Anyone who thinks a pitcher's record is an accurate representation of that pitcher's skill is a fukking hamburger.
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  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by face View Post
    good example is angels game tonight, weaver is pretty solid 3.3 era but is 4-5, if twins get him out of the game by the 7th they could win, angels bullpen has a 3.89 era. also, maybe shuck will do something wrong in the outfield and give up a run that way, i have seen him make some horrendous errors fielding.
    Yeah seems like guys don't notice stuff like that hes a shitty left fielder I've seen him let balls go by, over his head from bad reads, take bad routes. Im not even sure mike scioscia even gives a shit anymore

  32. #32
    pavyracer
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    When you are in the HOF the only milestone that matters is having 300 wins or more. Everyone remembers the pitchers with 300 wins or more but no one remembers the pitchers with a 3.11 ERA and 145 wins.

  33. #33
    InTheDrink
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    paver getting crushed here

    the 300 wins thing and the solid era usually go hand in hand so that's a terrible analogy

    paver why did king felix win the cy young iin 2012 with a 13-12 record?

  34. #34
    jjgold
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    He is pitching really well, maybe a hair off last year, Wash is a horrific hitting team.

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  35. #35
    raydog
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    no doubt betting the very best pitchers on good hitting teams is what the majority does, but if you make baseball wagers solely by who is pitching, you went broke a long time ago...
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