[Jeffie]

You use all of these qualification statements to de-credit Kobe's achievement yet you don't acknowledge that Kobe came off the bench for the Lakers for a couple of years.

You hate on Kobe for not passing the ball but then love on Jordan for more scoring titles.

You fail to acknowledge Jordan's shot attempts compared to Kobe.

You fail to acknowledge Jordan was always #1 man as Kobe was #2 for several years.
And if you did acknowledge Kobe was #2, you wouldn't use it to make a case that that is why Kobe didn't have as many individual accolades, but Kobe being #2 is a detriment to his resume and therefore his championships don't hold comparable weight.

This, my friend, is the epitome of bias. (in more slang terms, ball gargling)

surprised ratzz posted again in this thread. props to you mi amigo.

[QuantumLeap]

the bottom line is PPG for entire career.
If Jordan came out of high school, and did not waste 2 yrs. in the minors of MLB
then he would have passed Kareem, and likely the 40,000 pts. milestone.


Jordan 30.1
Kobe 25.4

that stat comparison ends the discussion about which is a more prolific scorer.*

You're conveniently leaving out the point that Kobe was a bench player early in his career so points per game isn't a relevant comparison. That's why you are getting owned. And all you have to say in response to that is "stats" that you conveniently ignore.

[sando]

Ratzz no offence mate, but the only outcome of arguing NBA with wguan2 is a public burial. Guy is super sharp. Unlucky.

[Ratzz]

You're conveniently leaving out the point that Kobe was a bench player early in his career so points per game isn't a relevant comparison. That's why you are getting owned. And all you have to say in response to that is "stats" that you conveniently ignore.

if so prolific, then why only two scoring titles in 16 yrs?

how does Durant already have three?*3 scoring titles in 5 yrs.
Youngest scoring title ever. (Durant)

Durant's career 26.3 ppg is higher than Kobe's 25.4
and he is still improving.*

it seems that drawing an 'age' comparison in a player that skipped college is fluffing up stats/

[darkhat]

oh shit i just went on NBA.com and solved this puzzle

turns out kobe is really the youngest player to score 30k points

they even have this picture showing kobe's points scored

[greenhippo]

the bottom line is PPG for entire career.
If Jordan came out of high school, and did not waste 2 yrs. in the minors of MLB
then he would have passed Kareem, and likely the 40,000 pts. milestone.


Jordan 30.1
Kobe 25.4

that stat comparison ends the discussion about which is a more prolific scorer.*

Got to stop you right there Ratzz, I can't have you lying on the boards here. Jordan missed almost his entire second year in the pros due to a broken leg. So that is THREE years of his prime he didn't play. Don't try this mess again sir.

[ChuckyTheGoat]

JJ Gold could be Small Fwd for Lakers, if he wanted to be.

[Ratzz]

Got to stop you right there Ratzz, I can't have you lying on the boards here. Jordan missed almost his entire second year in the pros due to a broken leg. So that is THREE years of his prime he didn't play. Don't try this mess again sir.

i was not aware of that, Sir...
i thank for your correction!!

I do so hate to misrepresent the facts.
add yet another 2000+ pts to my position.

30,000 pts divided by an Average of 30.1 is (996 Games). Jordan

30,000 pts divided by an Average of 25.4 is (1,181 Games). Kobe

that 'youngest' bit is what Laker fans will do to placate themselves,
what they emotionally require to numb the prospect of this season.

their expectations were so high..
something is needed to offset what they read in the paper every other day.

Howard has already indicated that he likely will be leaving after the season.
When he lands somewhere else, he will cite Kobe as the reason for his departure.

it is very difficult to lay with a person who takes all the credit for winning,*
and finger-points and calls 'friends' out in the media when they lose..

telling Gasol through the media to "not to whine, just put on your big boy pants"
is demeaning and meant to humiliate.

then the following day after Gasol sits, Kobe takes over and they blow a 17 pt. lead...
"i love Pau like a brother"*

well, brothers don't tell one another to put on their big-boy pants through the media.

[lakerboy]

I love jedi.

[Ratzz]

I love jedi.

on his Himmler's lapel (left in the photo)

that looks like a "smiley face"

..i know from history that it is Laurels with a golden eagle.,,
but the negative space between the eagle and Laurels looks like a smile..

and the space on either side of the head- becomes the eyes.
(at that precise angle)

man, that is evil

i don't know how you do it, buddy
but this dude is a trip.

[William Walters]

Ratzz.........who's your team guy? What state do you live in?

[Ratzz]

Ratzz.........who's your team guy? What state do you live in?

i root for small market teams with a modest bankroll.
and i like whoever is great an has not Won It All.. yet.


my team at the moment is the Thunder. I really like Durant/Ibaka/Westbrook/Sepholosha/Perkins that whole team..

*Durant is an MVP (future) star, but cool, doesn't insult people, respectful..
what a fool harden was to leave that.

He is 22 i think. Stay 4 years. Win a Championship, then if you want more money, go elsewhere. It is rare to find oneself on a team with that kind of talent/

that happens once in a lifetime.


even if Durant wins it ALL, i will stay with him..
i was rooting for Lebron to get his.. i would like Lebron to get at least two.


i hate the idea of Empires/Rich Dynasties.. same team winning over and over..*fans everywhere denied continuously.

Hate big market teams*(population generates income) *that think they are better.*That they deserve to win it just because they have more money.

I hate it when teams run out and buy several stars at max salaries and think it is going to work.

People need to play together for at least 2-3 years to really find their groove and each other. It's a relationship that all these athletes have with one another. It must be grown. No other way.

"you can't pay 9 women to have a baby in one month"

basically the Yanks and the Lakers are guilty of that.

[darkhat]

my team at the moment is the Thunder.

shocker

[William Walters]

i root for small market teams with a modest bankroll.
and i like whoever is great an has not Won It All.. yet.


my team at the moment is the Thunder.
i was rooting for Lebron to get his.. i would like Lebron to get at least two.

Let me get this straight.........you like small market teams with modest bankroll/spending, yet.......you were rooting for Lebron to "get his" and to win "at least two" even though..........the Heat have the SECOND HIGHEST PAYROLL IN THE NBA!?!?!?

Your favorite team now is the Thunder.....who happen to be in the upper 1/3 of the entire NBA in team payroll.

Your most recent favorite teams are the Heat & Thunder Since you're a big fan of small market teams who don't try to buy championships........I'm curious as to why you're not a big fan of Sacramento, Charlotte, Cleveland, Toronto, Phoenix, New Orleans, etc. etc.?

Hmmmm..........smells like a frontrunner to me.

[Ratzz]

Hmmmm..........smells like a frontrunner to me.

i know you are IQ challenged.
i am certain that you think you read the post,
but it is self-evident that you did not understand the content.

OKC was such a small market team they had to move.. from Seattle..
impossible not to have some salary needs..
OKC could not AFFORD harden.. so they had to roll the dice. The Lakers or the yankees
never have to lose a guy because they can't afford him.

The Lakers make $225 Million form their cable deal.. the Thunder make $15 Million.
man, i am sick of explaining shyt to stupid fvcking Laker fans. What a bunch of dolts.

"i root for small market teams with a modest bankroll.
and i like whoever is great an has not Won It All.. yet."

this means the presence of both conditions.

Lebron, Wade and Bosh all took paycuts to play together.
i think that is cool.

Durant signed away hid "opt-out" clause to commit 100% to his teammates with that specific team.
He's not jumping ship. He can't leave if it tanks. I think that is cool.

Last MLB season i was with the Orioles, last place forever.. i don't root for teams that are dead door-nails, and no signs of life. Just as a physician does not perfprm CPR on a cold body.

I root for teams that have never risen to the top,
but have a chance.. this time around.*

Arms do not need to be twisted for people to join Miami.
Kupchak traded for Howard FULLY AWARE that he did not want to come,
due of a well documented /terrible conversation with Kobe. and that will cost him.

Howard will NOT stay, and they lost a 1st Rounder on him,
and they will not win it all this year. They are out in the 1st Round.

Blowtime will be a 7-8 seed.
so lose in 5 to either the Grizzlies or the Thunder.

[William Walters]

i know you are IQ challenged.
i am certain that you think you read the post,
but it is self-evident that you did not understand the content.

OKC was such a small market team they had to move.. from Seattle..
impossible not to have some salary needs..
OKC could not AFFORD harden.. so they had to roll the dice. The Lakers or the yankees
never have to lose a guy because they can't afford him.

The Lakers make $225 Million form their cable deal.. the Thunder make $15 Million.
man, i am sick of explaining shyt to stupid fvcking Laker fans. What a bunch of dolts.

"i root for small market teams with a modest bankroll.
and i like whoever is great an has not Won It All.. yet."

this means the presence of both conditions.

Lebron, Wade and Bosh all took paycuts to play together.
i think that is cool.

Durant signed away hid "opt-out" clause to commit 100% to his teammates with that specific team.
He's not jumping ship. He can't leave if it tanks. I think that is cool.

Last MLB season i was with the Orioles, last place forever.. i don't root for teams that are dead door-nails, and no signs of life. Just as a physician does not perfprm CPR on a cold body.

I root for teams that have never risen to the top,
but have a chance.. this time around.*

Arms do not need to be twisted for people to join Miami.
Kupchak traded for Howard FULLY AWARE that he did not want to come,
due of a well documented /terrible conversation with Kobe. and that will cost him.

Howard will NOT stay, and they lost a 1st Rounder on him,
and they will not win it all this year. They are out in the 1st Round.

Blowtime will be a 7-8 seed.
so lose in 5 to either the Grizzlies or the Thunder.

This fukkin retard () could be rooting for numerous "small market" teams that "has not won it all". Yet......decides his favorite teams are the Heat & Thunder.

Translation.......FRONTRUNNER!

[cockblocker]

You use all of these qualification statements to de-credit Kobe's achievement yet you don't acknowledge that Kobe came off the bench for the Lakers for a couple of years.

You hate on Kobe for not passing the ball but then love on Jordan for more scoring titles.

You fail to acknowledge Jordan's shot attempts compared to Kobe.

You fail to acknowledge Jordan was always #1 man as Kobe was #2 for several years.
And if you did acknowledge Kobe was #2, you wouldn't use it to make a case that that is why Kobe didn't have as many individual accolades, but Kobe being #2 is a detriment to his resume and therefore his championships don't hold comparable weight.

This, my friend, is the epitome of bias. (in more slang terms, ball gargling)

Michael also had a career fg% of .497 compared to Kobes .454 and ast. of 5.3 to Kobes 4.7. So he could take a few more shots per game. He was a more efficient scorer and better player that got his teammates involved in the game more.

Your the only on that sounds biased.

[cockblocker]

For further information, it may be significant to emphasize games started over games player in order to attempt to control for the seasons where Kobe came off the bench. Those seasons you could argue is pretty equivalent to Jordan's 3 seasons that he spent at UNC.

1031 Kobe vs 1039 Jordan

Pretty close to be honest.

If your gonna do it like that, then those pts he scored coming off the bench don't count either.

[Ratzz]

This fukkin retard () could be rooting for numerous "small market" teams that "has not won it all". Yet......decides his favorite teams are the Heat & Thunder.

Translation.......FRONTRUNNER!

what is most refreshing is how much i misjudged you.
you are not a frontrunner fan. I suppose you are right.
If i am pulling for the Thunder to win it's first
and Lebron to win at least more than one, and they are good teams, then yes.*

you proudly display your Lakerette colors...
yet are under .500 with no hope of winning a Championship for the next decade,
thanks to Kupchak's insane and ill-advised trades.

it is interesting that a Laker fan... for the first time in how long..? how many years...?

a LAKER FAN IS CALLING OUT SOMEONE ELSE AS A FRONTRUNNER.
This is the first time i expect, since you have been the frontrunner to this point.
i suppose now you understand the plight of most teams,
because the shoe is CLEARLY ON THE OTHER FOOT.

your team is terrible, you know it, and you are pissed off about it.

That said, i expect the Lakers to do well tonight, good chance to win SU in OKC.
but don't get your hopes up.
they will get killed if they make the playoffs.

impossible for a team to do well, when they do not like each other.
1) Howard hates kobe
2) Kobe hates everyone.*

[BettingWizard]

This thread isn't about "who's better......Kobe or Jordan?". As a lifelong Lakers fan I'd say Jordan.

But, let's keep in mind......in Jordan's first three seasons.........he racked up close to 6,000 points while leading his team to a sweet 30 games under .500 record.

What was their record the 3 years before he came? 65 games under .500

and they were actually a .500 team when you take into account the games he missed with a broken leg. You know, games he actually played in.

[eidolon]

Interesting

Jordan averaged 22.9 shots per game for his career
Kobe 19.6 shots taken per game
Jabbar 18.1 shots taken per game
Malone 17.8 shots taken per game

Here are some better stats:
(Career field goal percentage)

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 56%
Karl Malone 52%
Wilt Chamberlain 54%
Michael Jordan 50%
Kobe Bryant 45%

[Ratzz]

Here are some better stats:
(Career field goal percentage)

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 56%
Karl Malone 52%
Wilt Chamberlain 54%
Michael Jordan 50%
Kobe Bryant 45%

that's huge. 45% is the least by a significant margin.
but, Laker fans will argue that his scoring was more recent.
so it's 'better' scoring.

also, Lakers faithful will argue that Kobe better-looking, so again,
that places him well ahead of that bunch.

(especially Kareem. Not really so good-looking.
so him being no.1*doesn't really count as no.1)

[play4win]

Mj could have been the youngest ever easely if he didn't retire the dfirst time!
And who knows he could have been the only one with 40,000 points!

[play4win]

For further information, it may be significant to emphasize games started over games player in order to attempt to control for the seasons where Kobe came off the bench. Those seasons you could argue is pretty equivalent to Jordan's 3 seasons that he spent at UNC.

1031 Kobe vs 1039 Jordan

Pretty close to be honest.

That's completely idiotic since 95% of college players don't make nba and are garbage!

[Jeffie]

ratzz do you honestly even watch basketball??
you sound beyond retarded... who gives a "ratzz" ass if kobe didnt play in college or who played more games.
Kobe is the Youngest to 30k points end of story.. he only has a few more years left, instead of comparing all ur bullshet stats
why dont sit back and enjoy one of the greatest players ever to play the game.

[darkhat]

breaking news!

kobe youngest to score 30k points

based on age not on jordans age

who gives a fuk

[InTheDrink]

I'm pretty sure that no one is really arguing that Kobe is better than MJ but it's laughable that no one considers how different the game is without the hand checking and other physical nonsense Jordan had to deal with. MJ might have scored 40 a game some years...who knows?

In 1999, the league eliminated contact by a defender with his hands and forearms both in the backcourt and frontcourt, except on offensive players who caught the ball below the free throw line extended. Defenses were also prohibited from "re-routing" players off the ball. This freed up perimeter players who used screens to get open. Nor were defenders able any more to grab or impede offensive players setting screens. In 2001, the defensive three-second rule eliminated defenders camping out in the lane away from their offensive man to help.

The rules changes did what they were supposed to do -- open up the game. Scoring average has increased from an average 95.6 points per game in the 1997-98 season to this year's 100 per game. Overall field goal percentage has increased from 45.0 percent in '97-'98 to 45.9 percent this season. Three-point percentage has gone up, from .346 11 years ago to .367 this season.

[William Walters]

17 years in the league

220 playoff games under his belt

Mamba goes off for 40 last night on 15-23 shooting.

Guy can be a facilitator one night and straight up scorer the next. With all the miles on that body. Unreal.

[Goat Milk]

I'm pretty sure that no one is really arguing that Kobe is better than MJ but it's laughable that no one considers how different the game is without the hand checking and other physical nonsense Jordan had to deal with. MJ might have scored 40 a game some years...who knows?

Dude Jordan was guarded by scrubs his entire career. Gary Peyton and Dumars were the 2 best defenders on Jordan, he has stated many times. That's a disgrace. Both were great defenders. No where near the calliber 1 on 1 defenders that a Kobe Bryant or a Jordan or a Pippen were in their primes. Lebron is getting there. Wade was there for a few years. Bro there are so many more versatile defenders in today's game than they're were in Jordan's era.

Could Jordan average 40 today? Yeah, maybe he could. Bryant averaged 35.4 a game for a full season, so I wouldn't doubt that Jordan could get 38-40. But I guarantee you it'd be a more difficult 40, even without the hand checking.

The best athletes in the Jordan era (aside from MJ and maybe Clyde and an Isiah), were all big men bro. Today it's mostly all guards/wing players. There was no such thing as a 6'11 guy in the Jordan era that could handle the rock on the perimeter and just pull up from any way (a la Kevin Durant). Sure there was Bird, but Bird wasn't really in the Jordan era in my opinion.

Jordan got lucky to play in an era where all the studs were Forwards and Centers mostly. Jordan even wishes he got to play against a Bryant in his prime, because there was nothing like a Bryant when Jordan was playing and not even close.

[Chi_archie]

I don't think he could score 40 a game today. When Jordan played NBA scoring was alot higher than it is now.

different game today

[bleek88]

Lets together be happy that we got caught to see the brilliance in Kobe "The Black Mamba" Bryant.

[InTheDrink]

i guess we're supposed to pretend that the best all around defensive player in nba history (on the best defensive team in nba history) never guarded jordan

[Goat Milk]

Dumars guarded Jordan more than Rodman did, much more than Rodman did. Rodman barely guarded Jordan. I clearly remember all those battles with the pistons. They would rarely put Rodman on Jordan. Rodman ended up winning rings with Jordan too so no he wasn't a guy that consistently guarded Jordan like a Bruce Bowen would try to guard a Kobe Bryant.

[Ratzz]

17 years in the league**
Translation: OLD, Over Hill, no more playoffs for you.

220 playoff games under his belt*
too much help... riding great centers.. on shoulders of giants

Mamba goes off for 40 last night on 15-23 shooting.

against a LAST PLACE Blazer team... Kolby is 2 for his LAST 38 3-Pt. FG Attempts!! (.05%)
let me spell that out.. THIS CLOWN IS SHOOTING 5 PERCENT FROM BEHIND ARC.
atrocious shooting for last two weeks. *


Guy can be a facilitator one night and straight up scorer the next. With all the miles on that body. Unreal.
this guy can blame anybody and everybody... turn any superstar player against and kill a team vibe, all by himself... unreal

Kolby is the best

[Ratzz]

You're conveniently leaving out the point that Kobe was a bench player early in his career so points per game isn't a relevant comparison. That's why you are getting owned. And all you have to say in response to that is "stats" that you conveniently ignore.

you come off the bench if you deserve to come off the bench.
if you are good enough to get the minutes, you get them.