[manny24]

the older skinripper should be drawn and quartered for his predatory actions against the younger kuntz.

[Sam Odom]

Sammy ??

Just got home

barely dark here... JJ , I got your msg

No , is NOT my type

[Optional]

I'm sorry, I was speaking from the point of view that his dismissal for lying was merely a pretext for attempting to remove a gay kid from the locker room, irrespective of the age of who he was kissing. In hindsight that's a poor assumption, because there are a lot of ugly reasons that could've motivated this unfortunate circumstance, and we shouldn't take any of them off the table.

I can of course see your concerns as a parent, and I'm sure my own parents would've been mortified at all the 30-40 year olds I dated shortly after coming out of the closet in college. I'm happy to report though that none of them took advantage of me and my "Daddy complex," and a couple of them made significant contributions to my life long after the sex was over, and out of respect for that I can't bring myself to join you in condemning all relationships between teenagers and older men (I was 16 when I came out). I think you can even find vast disparities in sophistication between people who are the same age, and even between a 30 year old and a 60 year old.

While it's a nice dream to want all relationships to live up to a truly egalitarian standard, the fact is that in humans we're often attracted to precisely the qualities we sense lacking in ourselves. As young people, that's sophistication and stability, and as we age it's innocence and vitality. The only protection we have against manipulation in any relationship is true love, and that's a hard thing to gauge no matter your age. In fact, I think I might be more guilty of manipulating those older guys into lavishing me with money and gifts than they ever were of toying with my emotions or taking advantage of my lack of reservation in matters of love.

All of this is my way of saying that I really can't bring myself to seeing their relationship as wrong or inappropriate before I know them both and how they treat each other. That's why I took the stance I did, that this is yet another case of a gay man being excluded from something once it's learned that he's gay. In my mind that's all there is to argue, because anything else involves substituting our judgment for this kid's judgment (or even his parents) and now that he's an adult, we'd only be compounding his problems by suggesting that his status as an adult is probationary in some respects.

You seem like a good example to prove I am wrong that it is harmful.

You've probably broken down my age prejudice a little, but I do have to lol about you thinking you are taking advantage of them. That's one of the main aims of grooming. Think about it, looking back, don't you have a blueprint for attracting young boys easily yourself now? If you want them at 65 you will be able to manipulate them into being with you if you are so inclined. But compassionate human beings of 65 years of age don't live happily spending their time manipulating a young mind for sexual gratification. So I doubt you will be kissing any 18yos at their school football matches when the time comes, despite what you say now.

Allowing that you may be able to have a relationship of equals with someone of that age, without any grooming or manipulation, which is a different thing. But I'm still a little bit skeptical that is really possible.

[Sam Odom]

Love stories like this

It can happen to any of us too

.

[RogueScholar]

You seem like a good example to prove I am wrong that it is harmful.

You've probably broken down my age prejudice a little, but I do have to lol about you thinking you are taking advantage of them. That's one of the main aims of grooming. Think about it, looking back, don't you have a blueprint for attracting young boys easily yourself now? If you want them at 65 you will be able to manipulate them into being with you if you are so inclined. But compassionate human beings of 65 years of age don't live happily spending their time manipulating a young mind for sexual gratification. So I doubt you will be kissing any 18yos at their school football matches when the time comes, despite what you say now.

Allowing that you may be able to have a relationship of equals with someone of that age, without any grooming or manipulation, which is a different thing. But I'm still a little bit skeptical that is really possible.

I appreciate your willingness to see that there are indeed two sides to every coin, and am grateful that we can discuss this respectfully, even though your position as a parent might make that difficult when the topic hits so close to home. I gave considerable thought to your statements, and surely saw much truth in them.

My boyfriend now is 20 years old in contrast to my 31 years, and I had to examine carefully if I wasn't indeed applying the blueprint you referred to in my relationship with him. Of course this confirms your contention that I possess that blueprint, but as with all things as unique as humans and their feelings for one another, I continue to believe that the nature of our bond cannot be blindly characterized as good or bad, sinister or virtuous, only as a reflection of the qualities we each possess naturally. While it's true that my own dating history with men much older than me might have imprinted an affection for the qualities found in intergenerational relationships, I dispute that there is even a modicum of predatory or manipulative thought animating it. If anything, he's been teaching me a valuable lesson in just how universal the human experience is, that it's much the same journey at 16 as at 60, just seen through different eyes.

I found those older men whom I loved gave me a powerful legacy to live up to, one that includes selflessness, unflinching honesty, and the sharing of wisdom and experience. I love him not because he is impressionable (which he is) or sexually malleable (which he most certainly isn't), but because it brings me joy to put his interests above my own and that in me he has someone in his life who loves him for precisely who he is at the moment. At that age, we all want to possess the confidence and resiliency of an established adult, but the road in getting there for most of us is quite frankly torturous and painful. These sorts of relationships provide a natural mechanism for acquiring those qualities from someone who can be trusted like a parent, but with whom the younger partner can be more honest and vulnerable.

All that being said, I think you're right that my experiences are probably an outlier in the spectrum of such matters, and that I most certainly won't be kissing 18 year olds at their school football games much longer at all. My current relationship is wonderful, and yet indescribably exhausting, and when it has run its course I think I will a better boyfriend in the future for having come full circle in this respect. It's proven to me that I do possess the qualities that I feared I lacked, those which are necessary to settle down with a man at the same stage of life as myself and begin a life together and a family. It's not that I find him incapable of being that partner, but that he deserves the freedom to find his own path to this place, and not be forced to accelerate that journey on my account.

I hope you can see through what I've written that it does us all a disservice to label anyone or any relationship because of the ages involved. Without question there are predators out there who fly in the face of everything I just typed, and you're a good parent to accede to the necessity of guarding your son from them. I encountered a couple of them myself, but even in my late teens I was able to learn from the experiences and not be scarred by them. We all have ugly relationships at one point or another, and surprisingly enough, the two that come to mind for me were with guys my own age.

I'm rambling now so I'll conclude by expressing my gratitude to you, for allowing this discussion to take place in the most unlikely of venues. You strike me as a very good man and a father I wished I'd had myself. Your son is very lucky to have you, and while you may have to wait to hear it from him, please accept my thanks in the interim.

[King Mayan]

.

This can easily be me and Sammy..

I'm the young stud and Sammy will be the old senile sugar daddy.

Sammy I'm going to pound you so hard, that your Alzheimer's will be reversed.

[SBR_John]

And would you propose the same two game suspension for a heterosexual football player that kissed his girlfriend while filming the game from the privacy of the press box?

Press box? Why don't we keep the hypothetical somewhat equal? You would still have the advantage in the argument. If I'm the coach and a freshman on the team has his girlfriend come out of the stands to give him a kiss while the team is down 40 I would administer some discipline. Most likely it would involve a suspension. In the case listed I would probably go with a two game suspension because of the distraction value of a 65 year old man kissing an 18 year old. So you win the argument that at least with me the suspension would be slightly more than if his girlfriend had done the same. If that makes me a "raging bigot" so be it. The fact is it was more of a distraction and deserves a slightly heavier penalty imo.

[Inkwell77]

Am I the only one fully engorged here thinking about what transpired later in the evening between these two lovebirds?

lol

[19th Hole]

I wonder how good 65 year old women are in bed??

Anyone know??

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Jj....Ask your aunt again.

[19th Hole]

Rogue-

Please feel free to post any and all pm's from/to me at anytime. I welcome it. You see....I have nothing to hide. I've never said anything to you I wouldn't be comfortable sharing.

If you can't take a joke, then maybe you shouldn't be in this thread. Certainly you could tell from the title that it wasn't intended to be a serious discussion.

You might think about getting over yourself a bit.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Must be a trait of Mormon descent.

[RogueScholar]

Press box? Why don't we keep the hypothetical somewhat equal? You would still have the advantage in the argument. If I'm the coach and a freshman on the team has his girlfriend come out of the stands to give him a kiss while the team is down 40 I would administer some discipline. Most likely it would involve a suspension. In the case listed I would probably go with a two game suspension because of the distraction value of a 65 year old man kissing an 18 year old. So you win the argument that at least with me the suspension would be slightly more than if his girlfriend had done the same. If that makes me a "raging bigot" so be it. The fact is it was more of a distraction and deserves a slightly heavier penalty imo.

So you're still responding in this thread without taking the 90 seconds necessary to read the article describing the situation? This is why I find discussing anything with you to be such a disappointing chore, because you always feel your opinion has merit, no matter how uneducated you are about the topic.

From the USA Today article on the incident:

Kuntz said he and his 65-year-old boyfriend were in the press box at the game against Snow College in Pueblo, Colo., over Labor Day weekend. Kuntz was videotaping the game for the team. His Wildcats were down by more than 40 points when "the kiss just happened," he said. The team would eventually lose 63-17.

This happened in the press box. Nobody in the general public saw it, not the spectators, not the TV cameras, if there were any. Had the coach not dismissed him from the team, not a single person who wasn't also in the press box would have ever known about it. You still think he should even be suspended at all?

[Deuce]

Rogue, why do you waste your time?

[ChuckyTheGoat]

Holy shit, some good stuff in here.

Rogue, how bout the Beavers? Props to them. Riley, Mannion, & Co made the Badgers look stupid.

[Ghenghis Kahn]

you fukkin fags are sensitive. i would still get grossed out if the incident was between a 65 yo grandpa and an 18 yo cheerleader...

any young kids going for granpas have father issues. nothing more, nothing less...

[Frank-King]

Am I the only one fully engorged here thinking about what transpired later in the evening between these two lovebirds?

Yes most likely.

[coanwe]

Sounds like the ex-player lied to coach about who was in the press box with him during the game. He deserved to be booted gay or straight.

[keyboarding]

[RogueScholar]

Rogue, why do you waste your time?

As an aspiring educator, I always want to believe that the next "lesson" will be the one that grants understanding. I guess in this instance I'm just a glutton for punishment, because after five years it should be evident that John's too attached to his prejudices to change.

Holy shit, some good stuff in here.

Rogue, how bout the Beavers? Props to them. Riley, Mannion, & Co made the Badgers look stupid.

The Beavers made my month last Saturday, Chucky, and not just because I had them ML. That loss in the first game last season to Sacramento State really took the wind out of my orange and black sails, and beating Wisconsin was the first time since then that I felt my fandom at full sail again. Thanks for noticing.

[Chi_archie]

might be going to south dakota state

[Inkwell77]

Love stories like this

It can happen to any of us too

JJGOLD is a man among boys!

[Robber]

Daihomosausage and rearloaded looking for kid's number

[Robber]

why the fukk do you care what this fukkin kid does....does this kid banging an old man affect your life??? nope. is he stopping you from having your fukkin mac n cheese tonight???? nope... is he causing you from posting your fake bets on sbr?? nope. is he stoppping you from playing world at warcraft?? nope...so grow the fukk up...jesus christ you people are the reason the us sucks...bunch of fukkin crybabies....get fukked crybabies

Stop bitching and crying

[VegasInsider]

classic

[konck]

He has the right name KUNTZ

[jjgold]

Good Bump