1. #1
    lcscanada
    lcscanada's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 03-17-11
    Posts: 503

    **** The TRUTH about Full Tilt Poker **** WARNING: LONG but a MUST READ

    I want to share this letter sent to me by a friend, who claims to be a friend of a former high level FTP employee.

    Lets call him WB for the purpose of this post. I was given permission by my friend, from WB, to disperse this. Take it for what you will, but this is something that should be read by any player that plays real money games on Full Tilt. Just for the record, I HAVE NO IDEA WHO THIS PERSON IS, NOR WILL I GET INVOLVED. I am simply posting this for information purposes, and will not participate in any "investigation"

    Background: WB used to work for Full Tilt Poker in Ireland, and in Los Angeles. Since the whole indictment fiasco last week, he and a lot of staff were relieved of their duties, with no notice, and no word on any compensation or legitimate reason that they were fired. WB observed/and participated in all kinds of deceitful practices by FTP staff over the years and wishes to now expose ftp for what it really is.

    I don't know his personal motivations for doing this, revenge perhaps, or have access to anything specific, but looking back at everything now, it makes sense.

    **********************


    The Truth about Red Kings/Tiltware and Full Tilt Poker –

    I was currently an employee of Pocket Kings, formally Tiltware Inc. I have decided to blow the whistle on this company, as well as Full Tilt Poker owners, specifically Howard Lederer and Mr. Bitar for its deceitful and mendacious business practices.

    My reasons will remain personal. Please take the time to read this statement and do not dismiss this as detritus information posted by an angry patsy.

    I was hired many years ago by Mr. Bitar to assist in developing software for Pocket King’s (aka Tiltware Inc), or what most of you know as the game model for Full Tilt Poker. This software team was not only composed of multiple programmers, but consisted of several game theory experts and even a psychologist.

    The original software team was tasked to develop a RNG (random number generator) with codicil variables. This involved multiple strings setup to access player databases to determine a course of action in generating an outcome, or more specifically, a poker situation that would maximize revenue income for the company. In short, and in simpler terms, the software was designed to create “action”. NO particular player was targeted to LOSE, HOWEVER, ACTION was the end game of the programming. If you take a large sample size of hands, billions of hands to facilitate variance, you will see no matter how far a player has an advantage preflop, or on any street, all subsequent events were 50/50, thus making this "skill" game, a game of chance.

    Another disburbing issue was the eventual plans to implement a new string to target losing players, or what we call “CV” or “capitulate variables” were players that had a higher percentage of registering for another session, or tournament, or making another immediate deposit. This was never implemented, but the "ACTION" or "SET UP" hand generation was. This was the primary objective.

    The purpose of targeting CVs, and generating action, was simply to provide the maximum amount of revenue. If you think about it, you will see how it makes sense from a business point of view. Full Tilt Poker makes its money by way of rake, tournament entry fee, and unfortunately, short term investing. Yes, FTP does take a large percentage of every players bankroll and conduct short term small investments to provide additional revenue. The faster a player "busts out", the faster he can re-register for another tournament (mtt or sng), and thus, more rake generated for the site.

    If every player withdrew their bankroll, FTP would not even be able to pay 25% out. You no doubt have realized this if you currently have a bankroll on FTP. What is even more disturbing, is that FTP is only paying out a very small amount of NON US based players, less then 5%. They are continuing to take deposits from as many people as possible, and have been delaying cashouts as much as possible. Support will provide you with all kinds of excuses. They have been told to re-request documents, reject documents, or provide any excuse possible to delay your cashout request. They have also begun what's called PKAH (player killer account hunting) where they track your entire history of play, and look for certain spots where they accuse you of "colluding", "chip dumping" or some other asinine excuse to close your account. Believe it or not, FTP has closed thousands of accounts with multiple 5 figure balances simply because they can do whatever they wish. You have no rights.

    If you have looked into FTP past history, there have been many situations where FTP stretched their investments, and the result was delayed cash outs and multiple player checks bouncing. I apologize for that tangent, but I just wanted to show you another deceitful business practice FTP engages in. More players equal more rake and entry fees, which in turn increases the profit margin.

    Unfortunately this is not where the deception ends. Red Kings employees are abusing the super user accounts. YES, this is the sad truth:

    RED KINGS EMPLOYEES, MANY OF THEM, HAVE OPEN ACCESS SUPER USER ACCOUNTS and have CHEATED MANY PLAYERS OUT OF HUNDREADS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS.

    Red Kings and FTP will deny these accounts exist, but they do/have existed.

    This will never be detected or proven. These employees are smart enough not to make the same mistakes as Russ Hamilton and other former employees of AP/UB. Is Howard Lederer aware of this? No, he is not. However he is aware, and specifically asked for, software that was juiced to create action and to target winning players to lose, and vice versa. HL, and RB, are thieves.


    There is a reason Red Kings/Tiltware is not certified to be a true random number generator without prejudice. Yes, the Kahnawake Gaming Commission has “tested” certain lines of code, but they have not been given access to RK/TW entire source code. Further, the KGC is not regulated by any government or body.

    I understand I have brought great risk to myself for exposing this, but I believe I have taken the appropriate measures to protect myself. A lot of you will dismiss this as a disgruntled busted player, but do not. Look at the evidence yourself. Examine the hand histories and see for yourself. Statistics and mathematics do not lie.

    One final warning to all players, FTP has been losing its customer base for quite a while now. With the events of this past week, they have cut customer support staff by 70%, as well, have begun transferring funds to their shell companies in Panama to avoid the wrath of the United States government. I would strongly suggest withdrawing any money you have and never deposit on FTP again.


    Summary:
    -Red Kings employees have access to Super User accounts and abuse them

    -The FTP software (RK/TW) model is designed to eliminate players as quickly as possible by providing “set up” or “coolers” to keep game registration fluid; you will never have a significant edge over any other player in the long term

    -The FPT software had programming plans to eliminate/bust players that have a successful deposit history or a successful winnings history. These players, or CVs, are likely to re deposit due to their successful history over a losing player. This is simply money recycled to keep as many players as possible interested and motivated to continue

    -If you have a large bankroll online, get it off the site as fast as possible. American players will not see another penny. Even if a favorable judgement is reached, maybe only 10-20% of your money will be recoverable. Most likely all of it, including all international players, will lose their money

    -FTP is still taking deposits from non Americans, do not deposit. They are milking as much as possible. Once FTP is shut down for good, and their player base gone (after they realize no withdrawals are possible) they will call it a day. The fat cats will ride into the sunset with their Panama Bearer Sharer bank accounts and laugh at the gullibility of all the poker players who deposited money into their pockets. Good luck and God Speed


  2. #2
    Domer
    have a blessed day
    Domer's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 01-21-10
    Posts: 1,046
    Betpoints: 146

    I like how he includes names that those in the know would recognize (i.e. Tiltware) to try to add legitimacy to his complete bullsh*t story.

  3. #3
    lcscanada
    lcscanada's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 03-17-11
    Posts: 503

    Hey man, don't shoot the messenger. I don't believe him either, but you got to admit, a lot of what he's sayin is happening with regards to non US players not getting paid, as well accounts seized unfairly, and 3rd party audits show the RNG is 50/50.

    I don't play on this site, i did in the past years ago, but not anymore. Either way, i don't think i'd ever put another penny of FTP again whether or not his story is true.

  4. #4
    CanuckG
    CanuckG's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 12-23-10
    Posts: 21,951
    Betpoints: 584

    Swear I've read this else somewhere

  5. #5
    Pajda
    Pajda's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 03-25-09
    Posts: 1,385
    Betpoints: 655

    Interesting read, I hope it's not true, but you never know with unregulated field of business.

  6. #6
    iifold
    Update your status
    iifold's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 04-25-10
    Posts: 11,111
    Betpoints: 1774

    Online Poker was never legit..

    believe what you wish...

    for the most part it is designed so players pass their money back and forth... this keeps everyone in action and generates the most possible rake..

    No one ever goes on crazy rushes in the limit games because it is programed not to happen, go to any limit game on poker stars and let me know if anyone has 5X's their buy in...Now, anyone that has ever played live knows all to well that sometimes one guy wins every hand all night long and takes home 20X's his buy in... will NEVER happen online in a limit game...

    This is just one of many shady things wrong with online poker...

  7. #7
    MUHerd37
    Status Your Update.
    MUHerd37's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 10-23-09
    Posts: 12,816
    Betpoints: 10678

    Don't know if it's real/true or not. Just another reason the U.S. needs to legalize it, tax it, and regulate it. You can't screw people out of money that way.

  8. #8
    dvsbmx
    dvsbmx's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 03-30-10
    Posts: 320
    Betpoints: 966

    Just a few points/questions I'd like to make and ask. First off, if Howard Lederer was calling the shots at FT i.e.deciding on an "action" RNG, why was he not named in the indictment? The stuff about looking at the math is totally bogus. I'm pretty sure people have looked at the math. Maybe they haven't looked at billions of hands but certainly millions. You should be able to derive the same conclusions from using a few million hand sample as you would having looked at the entire population. Basic statistics will tell you that; thats kind of the point of looking at samples, so you don't have to look at an entire population.

    I'm not saying the story is bogus, however, I do find it extremely hard to believe. With all the data so easily available (pokertableratings.com etc) and all the people with conspiracy theories, one would think that if something like this were to be going on it would be found out rather quickly. After all, it was the players who found Potripper.

  9. #9
    fogar
    fogar's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 04-12-11
    Posts: 67

    Thank you: very interesting

  10. #10
    cigar
    cigar's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 03-28-10
    Posts: 222
    Betpoints: 14

    Like the us government is gonna make it legit.... They could cheat too and who trusts them...?

  11. #11
    dvsbmx
    dvsbmx's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 03-30-10
    Posts: 320
    Betpoints: 966

    Quote Originally Posted by iifold View Post
    Online Poker was never legit..

    No one ever goes on crazy rushes in the limit games because it is programed not to happen, go to any limit game on poker stars and let me know if anyone has 5X's their buy in...Now, anyone that has ever played live knows all to well that sometimes one guy wins every hand all night long and takes home 20X's his buy in... will NEVER happen online in a limit game...
    Having beat limit games on Pokerstars for over 5x my but-in more than once, I have to disagree. The low-limit mixed games are just so soft, it really wasn't that hard or uncommon to have 3x or more my original buy-in. Also, the night before the indictment I beat 1/2 limit omaha h/l for 3x my buyin. I just can't buy into the whole "online poker is rigged" thing. Honestly, the people that bitch the most are usually the ones sitting with a 50+ vpip and a 3% pre-flop raise. The only thing they can do aside from blame themselves for being terrible at poker is to claim that the sites are rigged.

  12. #12
    boeing power
    boeing power's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 03-23-10
    Posts: 9,698
    Betpoints: 56

    Losing players will believe this crap

    Online pros who make a living off losing players will disagree

  13. #13
    jcubs55
    Jon Bones Jones -185
    jcubs55's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 04-18-10
    Posts: 1,023
    Betpoints: 126

    "The FTP software (RK/TW) model is designed to eliminate players as quickly as possible by providing “set up” or “coolers” to keep game registration fluid; you will never have a significant edge over any other player in the long term"


    Too bad there have been THOUSANDS of players who have earned a living playing on this software... even people who have won $1,000,000+, which would be almost statistically impossible through variance if there was no true long-term edge... nice try though.

  14. #14
    vividjohn45
    vividjohn45's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 11-21-10
    Posts: 6,331
    Betpoints: 578

    need harder evidence then this; if u want to see how fraud is really exposed look at 2+2 forum threds on fruadulent practices by online gaming companies.

    in fact lsccanada. why don't you post his thread in 2+2 forum. and make urself available to questioning. by the 2+2 members. this site is primarily a sports wagering site. while 2+2 is dedicated to poker and exposing poker fraud.

    ---------------

    i'm going to look over this letter and will add more later.

    --------------------------
    objections:

    1. you title ur thread the truth. but use anonymous people. and hearsay.

    2. u say wb. was terminated by fulltilt. but in the letter he states he is a employee of fulltilt. Which is it?

    i'll be back with more.

    3. you state u have nothing. "access to anything". why don't you get your friend wb to post on this thread.? you said he gave you permission to post his letter. Q: why won't wb come to the surface? usually a employee of a rogue company will post on 2+2 and let the forum members question him and the fraudulent methods used.

    4; wb gives us his legal opinion on whether poker is a game of skill or chance.. sounding like a doj fink or attorney. even if it is a random # generator. if 2 hearts flop and the player is holding 2 overcards to the board with both hand cards matching board suit. he would know that he has 15 outs. and then depending on the size of pot. amount of players, amount of "action' bing given and amount of cards still to be dealt how to take appropiate action. therefore "skill is involved" and it is not just chance. i strongly disagree on this point and do not understand why a past employee is trying to tell poker players that poker is a game of chance. the entire fulltilt criminal and civil charges hinge on whether poker is skill or gambling.

    my points at 344 as shown are 300pts for coming in 2nd place today at sbr forum poker. this week i also qualified for hustler casino 2k cash freeroll. and in the past week have placed in all nl sit n goes and tourneys that i have played. this is not just chance but based on years of playing experience and constant education from poker books. magazines and television shows.

    and id state further that i dont consider many casino games games of chance but that with skill and knowledge even they can be beaten. guys look at my points they are at this post 344 this from today's poker win. i'm going to transfer my casino points to it right now. from playin g various sbr casino games the past week.

    ok. there i just transfereed in my sbr casino pts. most won this week. i'm at 855. i don't believe in the mumbo jumbo casino games are games of chance. and not skill. i won those points you see during a hot week. at sbr gaming and they use rng's also.

    5. ft wants players to bust out. any casino manager will tell you if you don't play the player off, they won't come back to you. first off they have no more money to play with. and secondly they will go to your competition whom they do not bust out on.

    casinos and poker rooms have to be careful on paying players back. its a fine line that has to be walked, but if everytime i go to a casino. i bust out my bankroll. after the 5th or 6th time. i'm looking elsewhere to game. to see if i get paid back at another site. fish and donks can be partially stupid, but even they know if their bankroll keeps reading a 0 balance.

    ---------------------------------

    at this point without wb coming to the surface, and i know he says he is trying to protect hisself. so why even talk? if you can't back ur talk, why even bother talking to us.? i'd say this letter comes from department of justices finking and farting. on ft.

    at this point this letter is trolling.
    Last edited by vividjohn45; 04-20-11 at 03:41 AM.

  15. #15
    cigar
    cigar's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 03-28-10
    Posts: 222
    Betpoints: 14

    How many ring games out of ten would you guess featured teams?

  16. #16
    Rod1010
    Rod1010's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 09-01-10
    Posts: 6,208
    Betpoints: 25

    wow great read

  17. #17
    itchypickle
    Dan Bilzerian's gunsmith
    itchypickle's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 11-05-09
    Posts: 21,452
    Betpoints: 5620

    You can't whistle blow simply because you took part in the action....and never ceased to profit from it until the company was busted and you lost your job

  18. #18
    Bengals28
    Success is one thing, Impact is another
    Bengals28's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 04-20-11
    Posts: 2,164

    Hmm interesting read.

  19. #19
    Domer
    have a blessed day
    Domer's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 01-21-10
    Posts: 1,046
    Betpoints: 146

    Quote Originally Posted by vividjohn45 View Post
    in fact lsccanada. why don't you post his thread in 2+2 forum. and make urself available to questioning. by the 2+2 members. this site is primarily a sports wagering site. while 2+2 is dedicated to poker and exposing poker fraud.
    this would be deleted on 2p2 and he would be banned. they don't take kindly to trolls/BS posts, etc.

  20. #20
    horja1
    Grrrrrr
    horja1's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 01-13-11
    Posts: 5,646
    Betpoints: 12

    I agree with this ... It simple: poker sites are businesses and every business owner wants to maximize his profits ... for poker you just create a set of rules (software) that will increase your revenue (rake) and keep the players at the table ... Some guy who was teaching online poker (can't remember the name) said that poker sites are not cheaters because they make their money from rake so they don't need to cheat ... but why not make more rake if it is posible? you bring all kind of behaviour specialists and some IT guys together and you make a nice software that will produce more rake ...

    ... same for casino ... you start playing for the first time at some book's casino and you win some money, you think you "were just right" not to get another card, or to get one more, when in fact the casino is just investing in you now to get more money later (or at least what you already won); statistics probably proves this: online casion's will let you win at first because they'll get a bigger payback later ... as I said before, you think you had the right feeling, that you know exactly what you are doing, when in fact the software says "he wins this hand no mather what because there is a 95% chance that we will get double from him in 2 to 5 days".

  21. #21
    wtf
    wtf's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 08-22-08
    Posts: 12,983
    Betpoints: 61

    i submit those who call him a liar are shills

    there is a mountain of statistical evidence to substantiate his claim of it being "luck" , it has been posted on here before

  22. #22
    horja1
    Grrrrrr
    horja1's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 01-13-11
    Posts: 5,646
    Betpoints: 12

    Quote Originally Posted by wtf View Post
    i submit those who call him a liar are shills

    there is a mountain of statistical evidence to substantiate his claim of it being "luck" , it has been posted on here before
    you have -158 points?

  23. #23
    Roxxyfish
    finally i am on skype
    Roxxyfish's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 06-26-09
    Posts: 12,066

    this is absolutely bullshit, bullshit,bullshit, nuff said, a so called "online pro "

    Quote Originally Posted by boeing power View Post
    Losing players will believe this crap Online pros who make a living off losing players will disagree

  24. #24
    horja1
    Grrrrrr
    horja1's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 01-13-11
    Posts: 5,646
    Betpoints: 12

    poker sites are not cheaters ... and also pharmaceutical companies only want to help people and not make huge amounts of money ...

  25. #25
    horja1
    Grrrrrr
    horja1's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 01-13-11
    Posts: 5,646
    Betpoints: 12

    Quote Originally Posted by boeing power View Post
    Losing players will believe this crap

    Online pros who make a living off losing players will disagree
    Why? It is very logical to have a software that will help make more money ... maybe the first poker site used 100% clean poker software, but I doubt there are a lot of sites doing so now ... it's only called "cheating" by the players, but I doubt that poker sites are breaking any laws by using an "improved software" ...

  26. #26
    Jnas
    Jnas's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 08-26-10
    Posts: 760
    Betpoints: 8549

    I don't doubt this.

  27. #27
    horja1
    Grrrrrr
    horja1's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 01-13-11
    Posts: 5,646
    Betpoints: 12

    SBR poker is strange sometimes ... I remember a 30 people tournament where, at my table, there were at least 6-7 draws in the first 80-100 hands ...

    Yestarday I also saw an all-in with 2 people both having JJ (first time in 5 years seing 2 people with the same starting pair)

  28. #28
    jjgold
    jjgold's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 07-20-05
    Posts: 388,190
    Betpoints: 10

    Quote Originally Posted by iifold View Post
    Online Poker was never legit..

    believe what you wish...

    for the most part it is designed so players pass their money back and forth... this keeps everyone in action and generates the most possible rake..

    No one ever goes on crazy rushes in the limit games because it is programed not to happen, go to any limit game on poker stars and let me know if anyone has 5X's their buy in...Now, anyone that has ever played live knows all to well that sometimes one guy wins every hand all night long and takes home 20X's his buy in... will NEVER happen online in a limit game...

    This is just one of many shady things wrong with online poker...

    Keep playing and everyone ends up getting good cards
    Online poker is for suckers

    When Ivy plays it is not real money and set up

  29. #29
    frankzig
    frankzig's Avatar SBR PRO
    Join Date: 10-26-09
    Posts: 2,249
    Betpoints: 3622

    I want to wait and see more of these come out. But if you think about it EVERY business has it darkside

  30. #30
    wtf
    wtf's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 08-22-08
    Posts: 12,983
    Betpoints: 61

    Quote Originally Posted by horja1 View Post
    you have -158 points?
    nice straw man argument , shill

  31. #31
    horja1
    Grrrrrr
    horja1's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 01-13-11
    Posts: 5,646
    Betpoints: 12

    Quote Originally Posted by wtf View Post
    nice straw man argument , shill
    shill?

  32. #32
    Czu81
    Czu81's Avatar SBR PRO
    Join Date: 10-25-09
    Posts: 1,082
    Betpoints: 5709

    Quote Originally Posted by MUHerd37 View Post
    Don't know if it's real/true or not. Just another reason the U.S. needs to legalize it, tax it, and regulate it. You can't screw people out of money that way.
    +1

    but no offence this letter is bullshit...

  33. #33
    chico2663
    chico2663's Avatar SBR PRO
    Join Date: 09-02-10
    Posts: 36,915
    Betpoints: 6713

    this is very interesting reading

  34. #34
    mrmarket
    Update your status
    mrmarket's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 01-26-10
    Posts: 4,953

    Quote Originally Posted by lcscanada View Post


    -The FTP software (RK/TW) model is designed to eliminate players as quickly as possible by providing “set up” or “coolers” to keep game registration fluid; you will never have a significant edge over any other player in the long term

    What a joke of a thread. This insider doesn't even know the first thing about running a poker room. Poker sites make money from rake. If the software was rigged it would juice all pots up to cap rake level without going 1 cent over. Any pots higher or lower is suboptimal but the key to profit in any room is to keep players playing for as long as possible without going bust. Ever wonder why every poker room manager gets a hardon from watching limit poker?

    There are other inaccuracies in the mail too but why waste time debunking crap when it already looks, smells and tastes (JJgold?) like it.
    Last edited by mrmarket; 04-20-11 at 06:10 AM.

  35. #35
    i4jelway7
    i4jelway7's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 08-24-10
    Posts: 322
    Betpoints: 4273

    this is 100% true.. take it for what you want

1234 Last
Top