[dante1]

Our country flourished long before these progressive ideas and ideals came into being. The more progressive our country gets, the WORST things will get for just about everyone. Socialism = TRICKLE UP POVERTY Perhaps if we did a better job with immigration along with turning back the clock and telling our founding forefathers that slavery is abhorrent, perhaps all this progressivism wouldn't cause too much damage. However, giving everyone free medical care, Section 8 housing and free money every month will only encourage more freeloaders coming to the U.S. and who can blame them? If progressivism is the answer, then why did Greece fail with Italy so close behind (2 of the most progressive nations in the entire Eurozone)? Its one thing to help the guy working 2 minimum wage jobs who can't afford to make ends meet and quite another thing entirely to help people who only want to have more children to increase their government assistance checks. There are no easy answers, thats for sure but turning the U.S. more progressive is the absolute worst thing we can do as a nation. If the Eurozone ever figures its way out of the mess they currently find themselves in (caused by progressivism), then the focus will turn to the U.S. and our $15 TRILLION debt ($60-$70 TRILLION when social security and medicare are thrown into the equation).

Well Andy you gave your opinion and extrapolated what you think might be the answer I will give some facts that pertain to the argument not opinions that aren't directly related to the question. Our country did not flourish before Progressive programs came around. Yes, some people did but the majority did not. Examples follow:

I will skip slavery since your wrote that off so cleverly with a sentence or two. When kids as young as 6 and 7 working 12 hours a day is a flourishing economy that is sad. Progressive legislation changed that.
When women were worse than second class citizens, progressive legislation changed that. When factory buildings were locked and people died by the hundreds in fires, progressive legislation changed that. When men were getting killed working under unsafe conditions progressive legislation changed that, I can go on and on but you get the picture. Everything good that helped change this country for the better was almost always progressive legislation. Very few life changing, for the better, laws came for the conservatives of the day. They conserve what is, progressives change to what is better. Always!

Your argument about immigration is basically bs and cannot be substantiated by any studies of any merit. It is just your opinion as is most of your argument. This free stuff you mentioned has been curtailed greatly my friend. It isn't so easy to get free stuff from the government any longer. I know that from what my cleaning lady tells me. She is one of the very working poor and gets very little, very little Andy so that argument is crap too.

Bottom line is progressive legislation has improved life for everybody. It just seems like you and others like you don't like paying their fair share of taxes to support a fair and liberal democracy. That is the bottom line here.

I have made this argument way too many times so this is my last response to this thread. You can fill it up with your opinions untill, well until however you like.

Oh and one more thing, 50 or so years from now another progressive and another conservative will be having an argument not unlike this one. His answer might go something like this. You know there was a time when people with alternative life styles didn't have all the rights they do today, progressive legislation changed that. There was a time when we actually sponsored the state murdering people, some maybe innocent and at a much greater cost than life time jail sentences, progressive legislation changed that. Bank on this Andy, no matter how much you conservatives squirm and scream progressive legislation always comes, sooner or later.