[The Great One]

I've been thinking about this recently and on another thread people were jokingly throwing McNown and Leaf as great quarterbacks. So I was thinking, what makes a great quarterback. This question is to me deeper than you might think.

For example, we all know Peyton Manning and Carson Palmer are great quarterbacks. But, what is the difference between them and Joey Harrington or Tim Couch. Those are the two guys that come to mind right now.

I don't mention anyone like Ryan Leaf or any of the running black quarterbacks because you have to be a moron not to see how they failed. We've already been over the running quarterbacks but it is obvious that Leaf just wanted the quick payday and really didn't want to work. Combine that with a poor attitude, you'll easily see why that was an utter failure.

But when you look at Harrington and Couch. What makes Manning superior to them. It's safe to say all three have good attitudes and want to get better. All three can make all the throws you need in the NFL. All three have the prototypical size you look for. Intelligence wise, Peyton may have an advantage, but I wouldn't consider Harrington and Couch morons either.

Like I say, some quarterback failures are so obvious and you can see coming from a mile away. I, for one, thought Tim Couch would be a success. Do you think he failed in the NFL because he had absolutely no talent around him in Cleveland? It's hard to say that for Harrington being that Rogers when healthy is capable and Roy will be a pro-bowler sooner rather than later and Jones is a nice back.

I knew Mvcnown wiould be a failure because he couldn't make all the throws needed in the NFL. Thats why the GM that made that decision should be fired on the spot just like whoever selects Young this year should be fired on the spot.

To me, when selecting a franchise quarterback, the basis elements you have to look at are heighth, mechancis, arm strength and accuracy, how cerebral they are, pocket presence, and attitude. Those are the absolute core basics a franchise quarterback must have. Alot of QB's drafted in the first round do not have that therefor should not be picked and the GM should be hung literally the day after the draft.

Do Couch and Harrington not have what I mentioned above. Sure not to the degree of Manning, but overall i'd say they do except Harrington lacks a little bit in the accuracy category.

But yet there is a huge difference when comparing achievements of the 2 failures and Manning.

What do you guys think? What is the difference in your opinion?

[Dark Horse]

What makes a good QB?

1) Protection and good receivers.
2) Coolness under pressure, accuracy, and ability to read options quickly.

What makes a great QB?

The above plus an intutive attunement with his teammates. If you want the whole to be greater than the sum of the individual parts only intuitive attunement ('oneness') will do.

Intuition flows freely when ego is transcended. In other words, a QB that is too much 'I' and not enough 'we', is not a great QB. I'll leave it to you to judge your idol by that standard.

[The Great One]

If your saying that a quarterback that is all about "I" as you say is not a great QB. Thats not really true. Well I guess I should ask you, Do you consider Peyton Manning a great quarterback? If you think he is selfish and puts his accomplishments before the teams, then you are flat out wrong and have not watched the Colts play all season long. I'm not talking highlights.

Without Manning, the Colts are picking top 8 the last few years. Thats just a simple fact.

Harrington always seemed to me to put the team first, not necesarily caring about individual accomplishments. AS if he has any. LOL

I also think he has the smarts to be able to read options quickly. He is very musically sound which would be very useful in a skill such as that. Not saying every band geek makes a good quarterback but it can trasfer over somewhat.

I agree with point one you make. I still think Couch wasn't as bad as the bust label he will have. He simply had no talent in Cleveland at all. Who was the #1 receiver there? Kevin Johnson who is not like the 5th receiver in Detroit. They haven't had a running game since tghe 60's with Jim Brown as if that actually happened anyway.

[Dark Horse]

I really don't care that much about individual players. Until the game is reduced to two QB''s with only each other to throw to, all I see is team, team, team. When I see team chemistry, great. When I see a lack of it, great as well, but towards a fade. Works for me. Picked a recorded 65% for the last NFL season.

Good for you that you love Manning, as long as you realize that you're among the least objective to judge him. Every mother thinks her child is best. If I had a strong attachment to one player I would consider that a blind spot.

I didn't say Manning was ALL about I. What I did suggest is that he (still?) has (a little?) too much 'I' to be considered great. You can tell this from the way he spoke about his protection after the playoff loss. Where was his team spirit then? How easily he went back to 'I'. You will never see a Joe Montana or Tom Brady do that. Not ever. They simply don't think that way. Even better: they might make the necesary adjustment right then and there on the field, instead of complaining about it afterwards...

Doesn't mean that Manning can't reach that level. Consider it a positive. He still has room to grow! lol. Don't get me wrong. I love Manning. But only because he's money in the bank.