[sourtwist]

Lol

[shadymcgrady]

I rarely see it man, I see him try though, what I mean is when an opponent is standing in front of him and he creates off the dribble and has a pretty clean layup or dunk at the end.

There was an article a few yrs back with players talking about driving, penetrating and the differences between a quick first step and following steps

Players came out and said that lebron doesn't have the first step needed to create penetration off the dribble but that his 2nd, 3rd and 4th are pretty fast

Anyone who has ever played competitive ball knows how important that first step is in driving. Guys like Melo and d rose had it in their primes, curry, harden and kawhi are the current stars that posses it as well

[Cuse0323]

LeBun just got mad and walked off with his purse in hand.

[jtoler]

There was an article a few yrs back with players talking about driving, penetrating and the differences between a quick first step and following steps

Players came out and said that lebron doesn't have the first step needed to create penetration off the dribble but that his 2nd, 3rd and 4th are pretty fast

Anyone who has ever played competitive ball knows how important that first step is in driving. Guys like Melo and d rose had it in their primes, curry, harden and kawhi are the current stars that posses it as well

interesting that players chimed in bet that was a good read, not knocking bron guy is 6'8 like 270 or something, he isnt supposed to be iverson if he was dude would definitely be otherworldly.

[raiders72001]

To take Jordan's side. Only 12 times in the NBA Finals has 45 or more points been scored. 3 times by Jordan and Jordan has played less games.

LeBron's best is 51/8/8 with 5 turnovers.
Jordan's best 55/8/4 with 1 turnover.

In Jordan's 45 point game, he scored 45 of the Bulls 87 points. Pippen only played 26 minutes and scored 8 pts. Bulls won 87-86.

[GUMMO77]

LeBron bulldozes and shoves opponents with impunity. He didn't do sh!t when the game mattered at the end of regulation or OT. He instantly stops histling and starts crying on every non call.

LeBron is the biggest fraud ever sold to basketball fans. He's a great player but he pads useless stats and always has an army to find him excuses. It is never LeBron it's always someone else or something else.

Why is he a fraud? What do you think the game plan was for the Warriors? It obviously was to stop LeBron because, hell, the Cavs have no one else on their team. And with all the knowledge, coaches, and game plan ...........including home court advantage, LBJ almost beat three future hall of a fame players who just happen to be in their prime all by himself.

That my friend is one of the best players of all time.

[Slipknot26]

Man , this argument will rage on forever , trying to determine the best ever in completely different eras , styles of play as well as garbage officiating and overall product is impossible .
Both in their Prime , no matter the basketball era would still go off and put up numbers like they did , not many have the overall drive that these two do .
They simply are by far the best players on the planet during their career .

[nyplayer33]

Michael Jordan on bulls 1992 57 wins. Next year not on bulls 55 wins. The team was much better then the cavs...only 2 less wins without jordan..wow.

[nyplayer33]

People like to pretend Michael Jordan would average 50 points per game in the modern NBA because of the lack of a hand-checking rule.

They conveniently ignore that the elimination of hand-checking wasn't the only defensive rule change in the early 2000s. The NBA also modified the illegal defense rule, allowing teams to play hybrid man-zone scheme all over the court.

That change affected post players big and small — from the likes of Shaquille O'Neal to, yes, His Airness. Defenses could now send a soft double-team at you before you even caught the ball, instead of having to wait to help under the old rules.

Schemes became more sophisticated, thanks to visionaries such as Tom Thibodeau and Gregg Popovich. Teams defended areas of the floor, taking away scoring superstars' comfort zones.

Moreover, teams fouled less often because they were able to prevent stars from getting to their spots and didn't have to resort to grabbing and knocking a guy on his butt.*

All of this would have affected Jordan. His scoring prowess was built on the foundation of his legendary ability to draw fouls, in addition to all of his other greatness, and he was the ultimate one-on-one assassin.

It has become far more difficult to impose your personal will on an opponent in the modern NBA, and without that dominance, Jordan's Bulls might have come up short a time or two. Faced with increasingly complex defenses that could focus their attention on Jordan alone, His Airness would have played a lot more like LeBron — moving the ball, trusting his teammates, and shooting more 3s.

And when you have to rely on others to the extent LeBron has in his career, instead of just to win championships with series-clinching shots, you're going to have failures.

[jjgold]

James is so much better than Jordan it is not even funny

He almost won 1 vs 5

Lebron plays with college players

[lakerboy]

James is so much better than Jordan it is not even funny

He almost won 1 vs 5

Lebron plays with college players

You say this about Brady as well all the time.

James and Brady after this series is over will be 8-9 in finals.

Montana and Jordan were 10-0.

Oh yeah getting to 17 is better because getting there is What really counts.

[cwnotorious]

Man , this argument will rage on forever , trying to determine the best ever in completely different eras , styles of play as well as garbage officiating and overall product is impossible .
Both in their Prime , no matter the basketball era would still go off and put up numbers like they did , not many have the overall drive that these two do .
They simply are by far the best players on the planet during their career .

Slipknot - well said

[survive]

Man , this argument will rage on forever , trying to determine the best ever in completely different eras , styles of play as well as garbage officiating and overall product is impossible .
Both in their Prime , no matter the basketball era would still go off and put up numbers like they did , not many have the overall drive that these two do .
They simply are by far the best players on the planet during their career .

Pretty much the only reasonable take in this thread. NBA is drastically different today. Shit, Jordan would go out gambling and golfing before playing in the finals while today dudes are in hyperbaric chambers

[nyplayer33]

Please dont mention montana... who never played in the NFC east. He had the easy schedule being in that horrid division. When he played ny giants leanard Marshall send Montana into twilight zone..great hit. Plus..MONTANA HAD JERRY RICE...some say best nfl player all time

[reppin_the_847]

Like 2 Chainz said in his rap, there was a very good chance JR Smith was drunk & high at the same damn time. LOL. California Kush available easily over the counter down the street & Hennessy from any corner Oakland liquor store, what could possibly go wrong?

[A4K]

Why is he a fraud? What do you think the game plan was for the Warriors? It obviously was to stop LeBron because, hell, the Cavs have no one else on their team. And with all the knowledge, coaches, and game plan ...........including home court advantage, LBJ almost beat three future hall of a fame players who just happen to be in their prime all by himself.

That my friend is one of the best players of all time.

He is one of the best ever if NOT the best! My point is that people put him on a God like pedestal. I've read enough about his character to see that he is a phony.

[turtlejc]

this topic is so stupid...two different eras, like comparing apples and oranges

if michael didnt get banned for gambling, the bulls would have won 8 straight championships

lebron is the best in this days basketball and its not even close...but hes also a physical freak who could probably catch 1000 yards a season as a tight end in the NFL

[DiggityDaggityDo]

Come on, you know Scottie Pippen would've done the same thing.

Michael is the goat! He has more rings!!!!1

How many rings?

Oh... nevermind.

[reppin_the_847]

[ABEHONEST]

I still have to ask this question; Does GS have one threat to even have a possibly chance to defensibly stop Lebron?
I mean one genuine stopper?

[reppin_the_847]

I still have to ask this question; Does GS have one threat to even have a possibly chance to defensibly stop Lebron?
I mean one genuine stopper?

No. They will try baiting him with some Draymond Green trolling antics, but I think LeBron expects that.

[upscope]

Actually Jordan isn't better because of JR Smifffff, he's better because of Ray Allen & Kyrie Irving. You see because if it were LeBron actually knocking down those Championship clinchers adding to his overall impressive body of work his legacy would have grown to Jordan levels. Instead he took n missed the clear look that led to the Allen make & stood in corner & watched Kyrie win it for him.

Jordan just knocked that sh#t down himself hence the godlike legacy.....But hey, if u think 51-8-8 in losing effort is greatest ever then so be it. Jordan avg 34 a game over 6 finals. Won em all. Took the shots that mattered. Best ever!!

Got it??

[Eddy Munny]

Actually Jordan isn't better because of JR Smifffff, he's better because of Ray Allen & Kyrie Irving. You see because if it were LeBron actually knocking down those Championship clinchers adding to his overall impressive body of work his legacy would have grown to Jordan levels. Instead he took n missed the clear look that led to the Allen make & stood in corner & watched Kyrie win it for him.

Jordan just knocked that sh#t down himself hence the godlike legacy.....But hey, if u think 51-8-8 in losing effort is greatest ever then so be it. Jordan avg 34 a game over 6 finals. Won em all. Took the shots that mattered. Best ever!!

Got it??

John Paxson and Steve Kerr.

Got it?

[johnnygooble]

People like to pretend Michael Jordan would average 50 points per game in the modern NBA because of the lack of a hand-checking rule.

They conveniently ignore that the elimination of hand-checking wasn't the only defensive rule change in the early 2000s. The NBA also modified the illegal defense rule, allowing teams to play hybrid man-zone scheme all over the court.

That change affected post players big and small — from the likes of Shaquille O'Neal to, yes, His Airness. Defenses could now send a soft double-team at you before you even caught the ball, instead of having to wait to help under the old rules.

Schemes became more sophisticated, thanks to visionaries such as Tom Thibodeau and Gregg Popovich. Teams defended areas of the floor, taking away scoring superstars' comfort zones.

Moreover, teams fouled less often because they were able to prevent stars from getting to their spots and didn't have to resort to grabbing and knocking a guy on his butt.*

All of this would have affected Jordan. His scoring prowess was built on the foundation of his legendary ability to draw fouls, in addition to all of his other greatness, and he was the ultimate one-on-one assassin.

It has become far more difficult to impose your personal will on an opponent in the modern NBA, and without that dominance, Jordan's Bulls might have come up short a time or two. Faced with increasingly complex defenses that could focus their attention on Jordan alone, His Airness would have played a lot more like LeBron — moving the ball, trusting his teammates, and shooting more 3s.

And when you have to rely on others to the extent LeBron has in his career, instead of just to win championships with series-clinching shots, you're going to have failures.

Thanks coach, very very high level

[19th Hole]

Eddy...Where's the love for MJ, Chamberlain, Kareem?
All superior to LaBawl IMHO.





*Do you live in metro Cleveland or nearby?








.

[convick]

John Paxson and Steve Kerr.

Got it?

Ray Allen didn't even win that game 6 vs Spurs. He sent it to overtime. Miami still had to win game 7.

[Eddy Munny]

Ray Allen didn't even win that game 6 vs Spurs. He sent it to overtime. Miami still had to win game 7.

But Jordan jockers have become so accustomed to Lebron's teammates being such bedwetters that the minute any of 'em hit any meaningful shot whatsoever, they (Jordan jockers) somehow consider that a blemish upon Lebron's legacy.

[WildCelticsFan]

Thats one of the most iconic shots. Just saying...

[upscope]

LeBron scores 50+ in a playoff game (ot game no less) & now he's the best ever.....

Jordan did it 8x's including a 55 finals game

LeBron bout to be 3-6 in Finals (lucky not to be 1-8).....but he's the best ever cause he scored 51 in an ot game right??
Jordan 6-0 with clean sweep 6 Finals MVP's.

LeBron gets a free pass to the Finals 8 strait yrs in weak garbage East & he's the best ever......If Jordan doesn't retire in his prime he wins 8 strait Championships

LeBrons teammates r garbage right, that's the excuse every yr when he loses yet he just jumps to stacked team after stacked team & has played with more overall talent than anybody in his era.

LeBrons stats r better right so he's the best ever. Yet LeBron playing in era when totals in games are consistently in the 220's. Totals for basketball games in the 80's-90's were consistently in the 180's & 190's. Scoring way UP in NBA from 20 yrs ago.

90% of people that claim LeBron better aren't old enough to have seen Jordan play.....90% of people that say Jordan better were around to see both play.

Jordan the best ever, LeBron likely becomes 2nd best ever when said n done.

If the 20 something crowd could just wipe their chins of LeBrons jizz for a moment & compare for themselves (since they clearly weren't around to "witness" Jordan). It should be pretty clear with Jordans Finals results making it a no brainer ~ You can have your xtra rebound & assist & a half I'll take everything else.....Two best players of all-time just enjoy it while u can.


NBA Seasons:
LeBron 15
Jordan 15

NBA Championships:
LeBron 15
Jordan 15

Playoffs Played:
LeBron 13
Jordan 13

All-Star Games:
LeBron 14
Jordan 14

Season MVP:
LeBron 4
Jordan 5

Finals MVP:
LeBron 3
Jordan 6

All-NBA 1st Team:
LeBron 12
Jordan 10

All NBA Teams:
LeBron 14
Jordan 11

NBA Defensive 1st Team:
LeBron 5
Jordan 9

NBA Defensive Teams:
LeBron 6
Jordan 9

Defensive Player Of The Year:
LeBron 0
Jordan 1

Scoring Leader:
LeBron 1
Jordan 10

Steals Leader:
LeBron 1
Jordan 3

Rookie Of The Year:
LeBron 1
Jordan 1

Points Per Game:
LeBron 27.2
Jordan 30.1

Rebounds Per Game:
LeBron 7.4
Jordan 6.2

Assist Per Game:
LeBron 7.2
Jordan 5.3

Steals Per Game:
LeBron 1.6
Jordan 2.3

Blocks Per Game:
LeBron 0.8
Jordan 0.8

Total Points:
LeBron 31,038
Jordan 32,292

Total Rebounds:
LeBron 8,415
Jordan 6,672

Total Assist:
LeBron 8,208
Jordan 5,633

Total Steals:
LeBron 1,865
Jordan 2,514

Total Blocks:
LeBron 888
Jordan 893

Total Games:
LeBron 1,143
Jordan 1,072

FG %
LeBron .504
Jordan .497

3-Point %
LeBron .344
Jordan .327

FT %
LeBron .739
Jordan .835

Best Season PPG:
LeBron 31.4
Jordan 37.1

Best Season Reb PG
LeBron 8.6
Jordan 8.0

Best Season ASS PG
LeBron 9.1
Jordan 8.0

Best Season Steals PG
LeBron 2.2
Jordan 3.2

Best Season Blocks PG
LeBron 1.1
Jordan 1.6

PLAYOFFS PPG:
LeBron 28.9
Jordan 33.4

PLAYOFFS REB PG:
LeBron 8.9
Jordan 6.4

PLAYOFFS ASS PG:
LeBron 7.0
Jordan 5.7

PLAYOFFS Steals PG:
LeBron 1.8
Jordan 2.1

PLAYOFFS Blocks PG
LeBron 1.0
Jordan 0.9

PLAYOFFS Total Points:
LeBron 6,826
Jordan 5,987

PLAYOFFS Total REB:
LeBron 2,096
Jordan 1,152

PLAYOFFS Total ASS:
LeBron 1,655
Jordan 1,022

PLAYOFFS Total Steals:
LeBron 415
Jordan 376

PLAYOFFS Total Blocks:
LeBron 229
Jordan 158

PLAYOFFS Total Games:
LeBron 236
Jordan 179

PLAYOFFS FG %
LeBron .491
Jordan .487

PLAYOFFS 3-Point %
LeBron .332
Jordan .332

PLAYOFFS FT %:
LeBron .742
Jordan .828

BEST Playoffs PPG:
LeBron 35.3
Jordan 43.7

BEST Playoffs REB PG:
LeBron 11.3
Jordan 8.0

BEST Playoffs ASS PG:
LeBron 8.7
Jordan 8.5

BEST Playoffs Steals PG:
LeBron 2.3
Jordan 2.8

BEST Playoffs Blocks PG:
LeBron 1.8
Jordan 2.3

[Eddy Munny]

^^^ Wow, 30 combined NBA championships. I am in utter awe at that statistic!

[survive]

Ray Allen didn't even win that game 6 vs Spurs. He sent it to overtime. Miami still had to win game 7.

Tough for a team to rebound off that game 6 loss though, especially on the road. Also don’t forget how bs the old 2-3-2 format was. Spurs were the better team in 2013 and should’ve won it, they shit pumped Miami the next year to prove it