[pavyracer]

They don't have to bring in players from other countries. If they locked out for a year and the NBA decided to start fresh, every two tier player would be waiting on line to come back. It's not going to be worth it for the Corey Maggette's of the world to go over seas and play. If that was the caliber of the NBA, you and I would still watch because of gambling. (Which means TV revenue. Not at the same income as before of course.)

It wouldn't be the worst thing in the world for the owners.

I think you are discounting the quality of the players vs the success of the league. If the players are sub-par the fans will leave the arenas in droves. There is a reason people pay to see Lebron and Kobe. Do you know for example that when the Heat or the Lakers visit Atlanta they sell out the arena? This happens in all small market cities. Now if the Lakers show up in Atlanta with Maggette and Childress to play the Hawks you will get 500 people in the arena only.

[bettilimbroke999]

You think all of these teams will fail without "NBA" players? Remember that the teams you are saying will fail have shitty players on them anyway.

Very good point, the shitty teams that are losing a fortune have no stars anyway, who the **** knows (or cares) who plays for Minnesota, Charlotte, Utah, etc. Absolute no names and they are expected to beat the Lakers or Heat, I mean c'mon

[raydog]

i dont mind a half season...i dont even make it to half the games and it makes my season tix cheaper
gotta be honest about the whole thing...

[pokernut9999]

Players will get all they want and then the owners will comply because the owners know without the players they have no business.

The owners already have a business , this is their hobby

[OmgUrMom]

Lol the owners can easily do without the players more than MOSt players can do without the owners. Sure a few superstars can get good paying positions over seas but the majority can not due to overseas rules. Many countries you can only have 2 foreign players i believe.

[ChuckyTheGoat]

How many players are going broke as we speak?

Antoine Walker pissed away $100 Mill like it was water.

[Inkwell77]

Few good points. If you are a winning team you will sell out in most markets.
If you are a middle of the road team but don't overplay players you will make money.

The dumbest thing a team can do in the NBA is overpay players and spend too much money. Look at the Knicks the past 10 seasons for an example.

I was just looking at some of the ridiculous contracts shitty players got last year and it mostly correlates with shitty teams, now I know some of these contracts are backloaded to free cap space from previous seasons but still

Antawn Jamison - 13 mil
Baron Davis - 13 mil
Eddy Curry - 11.5 mil
Gilbert Arenas - 17 mil

Only looked at a few guys, probably many more.

I do agree that guaranteed contracts do hurt the league for a variety of reasons and that is one area where I do agree with the owners, but at the same time, if the league were to get rid of guaranteed contracts the owners would not recoup the players by paying them more money per season so the players have zero incentive to get rid of guaranteed contracts. It would make the league product much better.

[Mad Thunder]

The players should've just taken the 50-50 deal.. that 7% salary cut is really not that big of a loss for people who make that much money.

[tatommack]

This is wrong in so many ways. First off if I start a company and it does very well I have to split the profits with all the workers? I don't think so. The owners are putting up the risk they should get all the money. Players should get a set base pay with bonuses for having good games.

[tatommack]

Theses guys can't handle the money they get so they think more would help them from going broke.

[face]

don't football players get paid way less for getting way more beat up, and being way more popular? i don't understand it.

[tatommack]

I agree with a hard cap look what it has done for the NFL

[seaborneq]

Players will find out real soon that life is NOT fair. Owners will break them in half over time and tell them they should like it. No hope standing up the owners who can take it or leave it and still be billionaires. Players have their skills of labor and that is it. If Airline pilots can be punked, air traffic controllers, and other so called high demand laborers can be also. One thing that goes over across the board that applies to all industries is this, "You are ONLY important, if someone ELSE allows you to be important, otherwise know your role and stay in your lane. Plenty of talented peole get run off for not going along with the program, a few of them(jobs, gates, cuban) prove their employers and the public wrong, the rest of us are fukked.

[bettilimbroke999]

In blacks defense, 5 mil a year is just 10k per kid of theirs per year

[keyboarding]

How is Derrick rose disgruntled?? Because he says a comment that took him 10 minutes to say then proceeded to fukk some hoodrats in a limo.

While keyboarding, goes into threads and starts calling sbr posters dumb, morons, idiot, etc thru a keyboard. You must be really smart.

Do you know what disgruntled means? You can't possibly be this stupid. Must be quite a life you live trolling message boards.

[ChuckyTheGoat]

The players never should have agreed to a salary cap per player. Per team, yes, but not per player. There are only about 8 or 10 guys in the league that are irreplacable. Those guys should grab as much as they possibly can. Sign one-year deals, if you're willing to accept the injury risk...and then go back on the free mkt.

Most players should be happy w/ sane Annual salaries of $2 to $3 Mill.

[Lock Of The Aeon]

They need to come to an agreement before we lose a significant number of games or possibly the entire season. I'm sick of this shit! I need the NBA, dammit!

[King Mayan]

Do you know what disgruntled means? You can't possibly be this stupid. Must be quite a life you live trolling message boards.

Why do wannabe smart guys always use the " you can't be that stupid" line??

Oh, and please tell me what disgruntled means?

I always figured SBR posters were morons but these idiots backing the players in this situation are fukking priceless.

And this ain't trolling right??Not disgruntled either??
dis·grun·tled/disˈgrəntld/
Adjective:
Angry or dissatisfied.

Keyboarding response back: you can't be this stupid.

[HoulihansTX]

I agree with a hard cap look what it has done for the NFL

Specifically its having NON-guaranteed contracts that sets NfL apart from NBA.

Mike Vick has a 100mill contract, but only 30 mill is guaranteed.

Lebron James has a 110mill contract, and he is owed all 110 mill.

[pavyracer]

Specifically its having NON-guaranteed contracts that sets NfL apart from NBA.

Mike Vick has a 100mill contract, but only 30 mill is guaranteed.

Lebron James has a 110mill contract, and he is owed all 110 mill.

But Lebron has to play 82 games in regular season and 15-20 games in playoffs every year.
Vick only has to play 14 games per year. So Vick makes more money per game than Lebron.

[shari91]

At the end of the day, the owners have all the power and that's what I think a lot of player backers fail to realise. These aren't people who built these organisations from the ground up and have invested decades of blood, sweat and tears into seeing them succeed. These teams also aren't their main (or even 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc in some cases) form of income. If it all went pear-shaped tomorrow and the NBA was forever gone, the owners would carry on as exceedingly wealthy as they are now and won't care less. In some cases, they'd actually be in a better financial position since they wouldn't have a money sucking NBA team on their books.

The players however have a small window of opportunity to make 99% of their lifetime income, because let's face it: There are maybe a handful of current players who will ever get a commentating job and the number of players with endorsements is very small. This isn't like a bargaining agreement within the airline industry or for municipal workers. The general public doesn't need the NBA and in fact with the economy the way it is today, I'd imagine the majority of people are thinking the players are just being greedy f'ers and couldn't care less if there isn't a season this year. Where else is that jackoff Luke Walton going to make $30 million over 6 years? He won't make that for the rest of his life. Or even in 2 lifetimes. Players like him will be ready to cave quickly when they realise the owners have no reason to back down.

[SportJunkie]

Jack Nicholson won't have to spend $5000 a game to see the new players. I guessing he'll eventually come around to enjoy the new players as the league promotes them and there not ME mentality.

I love the NBA, but I definitely side with the owners.

[TheCentaur]

Where else is that jackoff Luke Walton going to make $30 million over 6 years? He won't make that for the rest of his life. Or even in 2 lifetimes.

Of all the examples of overpaid undeserving douchebag NBA players you chose Luke Walton?

[widebody2]

In my business, my employees combined salaries are about 1.5X my company profit. The company revenue is about 2.25X the combined salaries. So I make 1X while my combined employees make 1.5X. It almost doesn't even make sense to compare my business with the NBA....thats how bad their business is. Players are making 20X, while owners are making -3X. That's not a business...that is a black hole where money disappears.

The NBA is supposed to be a business. The owners need to profit, else there is only the "cool" factor of owning an NBA team keeping them going. The owners are not being greedy by refusing to keep going with something that is losing them money. Anybody calling them greedy knows nothing about business.

Yes its the owner's own fault that this situation has come about, but that does not mean they have to continue bleeding money forever. That's why once their contract with the players association ran its course, they said its time to renegotiate. They have absolutely nothing to lose by nixing the entire season, even multiple seasons, aside from the falling market value of their organization (This value will come back stronger if they can make the league profitable), and the short term loses from less fans attending their games when they do start playing.

The players need to wake up. They are losing millions combined for each game that is cancelled. The owners are losing nothing....in fact the owners combined, are doing better by not playing the games.....the only time this lockout will have a negative effect on them is when they go to sell their team, and only if that's in the near future.

The players will lose this fight, the less games they miss the better for their own piggy banks, end of story.

[mh217]

everybody should take a haircut and make the game cheaper for the fans to attend...yea i know..dream on..

[keyboarding]

Why do wannabe smart guys always use the " you can't be that stupid" line??

Oh, and please tell me what disgruntled means?



And this ain't trolling right??Not disgruntled either??
dis·grun·tled/disˈgrəntld/
Adjective:
Angry or dissatisfied.

Keyboarding response back: you can't be this stupid.

I was amused. You are a clown. You also amuse me.

[Tree Rollins]

don't football players get paid way less for getting way more beat up, and being way more popular? i don't understand it.

It's b/c there are only like 400 players in the NBA. In the NFL, there are a couple thousand. A lot more guys to pay equals less money for the players.

[Bluehorseshoe]

Bryant Gumbel Calls NBA Commish "Plantation Overseer"


Bryant Gumbel invoked race in a televised editorial on the NBA's strained labor talks, likening league Commissioner David Stern to a "plantation overseer."

Gumbel ended Tuesday's edition of HBO's "Real Sports" by taking aim at Stern, who he said is to blame for the lockout that threatens the entire season. He said Stern's "disdain for the players" is "pathetic."

"But his efforts were typical of a commissioner, who has always seemed eager to be viewed as some kind of modern plantation overseer treating NBA men as if they were his boys," Gumbel said. "It’s part of Stern’s M.O. Like his past self-serving edicts on dress code or the questioning of officials, his moves are intended to do little more than show how he’s the one keeping the hired hands in their place."

Gumbel has often played the race card when talking sports. In 2006, when then-NFL Commissioner Paul Tagliabue was leaving office, he said Tagliabue kept Players Union boss Gene Upshaw on a "leash" as his "personal pet." The comment was widely viewed as having a racial overtone.

Later that year, Gumbel explained why he doesn't like the Winter Olympics.


"Try not to laugh when someone says these are the world’s greatest athletes, despite a paucity of blacks that makes the Winter Games look like a GOP convention," Gumbel said.

The NBA and its players union were talking with a federal mediator present into early Wednesday morning in a marathon effort to bridge their gap.The league's lockout is 111 days old, and the first two weeks of the season have already been canceled.

Talks are hung up on how to divide revenue and the league's salary cap. Owners want to cut the players’ share of revenues to 47 percent from 57 percent. The owners have dropped their demand for a hard salary cap but they insist on new restrictions on the soft-cap system.

The average salary in the NBA is $4.8 million, the highest in all professional sports.

[MarlinsFan2212]

As a Blazers fan, I'm loving the lockout.
This is an extended rest period for Roy and Oden, who desperately need it.

[seaborneq]

As a Blazers fan, I'm loving the lockout.
This is an extended rest period for Roy and Oden, who desperately need it.

Why would you count on oden for anything?

[Mr KLC]

If the players are so unhappy about the pay situation, then use the free market, and see if they can get paid more overseas. The NBA is not their only option. If I were the owners, I wouldn't even consider the 50-50 split. The players need to learn that the tail doesn't wag the dog.

[stevenash]

There are over 30 NCAA basketball Division I conferences.

There are over 300 NCAA basketball Division I teams.

There are almost 4000 NCAA basketball Division I players of which I would say about 150 of them could compete on the nba level.

Couple those 150 college kids that are eligible and could compete on the nba level, with players, for whatever reason that are out of the league, you would have enough talent pool to start a 12 city team league.

The owners already have the facilities to train, they have the arenas, they are good to go, they just need the players, which they could get if they have too.

Know this, a new start up 12 city team league could at the very least break even.

Most owners have TV contracts, games would still be aired.
The owners would still get their advertising money from the TV games, albeit at a discount rate, but still...

Owners could sell front row Spike Lee front seats for say 35 dollars.
They could sell decent 2nd level seats for 18.
Nose bleeds for 12.

The owners would still do just fine with 2800 in the stands, with 7 dollar beers and all.

Some of you hardcore nba fans need to wake up.
Your league is awful, dreadful.

There are maybe nine, that is right, maybe nine pros in the game today that Joe Lunchbox will pay to see.

Joe Lunchbox might pay 125 dollars to see Kobe and the Lake show on a Friday night when they are in his town, he might pay 125 dollars to see the Celtics with the 3 amigos, but Joe Lunchbox will not say to his 15 year old son, "Hey, Junior, Zach Randolph and the Grizzles are in town tonight, lets go"

Like I said, there are maybe 9 players right now Joe Lunchbox will pay to see, maybe 4 teams in the league Joe Lunchbox will pay to see.
The rest, garbage.

Matter of fact, only two teams sell out one hundred percent of the seats in the arena they visit.
Lakers and Heat, that is it, look it up if you want.

But for every Laker and Heat teams out there, there are many more teams like the Bucks, Indy, or Detroit, that struggle to get 75% of the seats filled.

This league needs an overhaul, now might be the right time.

[Ice House]

NBA basketball has been a snoozefest for a long time. Hopefully the NBA just goes away.

very sharp post. FUKK THE NBA!!!!! Just cancel that shit for good.

[darrell74]

23 of the 30 teams took a loss, financially.

Looks like the owners should go to a lockout to me.

Am I not getting it?

[Bluehorseshoe]

23 of the 30 teams took a loss, financially.

Looks like the owners should go to a lockout to me.

Am I not getting it?

The players are claiming the owners "cooked the books" in order for it to look like they had loses. They had the former assistant to Stern on ESPN yesterday who said it was an out and out lie. That the NY Times article that was mentioned in this thread was completely wrong.