[JBEX]

Hope it helps JBEX.

Any way to post the horses form for all to see?

no I don't know how or if it's possible

may 24... 4/3.5 (2f) * 5/3.5 (4f) * 5/1.5 (6f) * 8/5.5 (str) * 5/2.5 (fin)

9 horse field
maiden claiming 75k belmont

1 mile turf.. pace calls (2nd and 3rd) avg about 8 lengths fast

"inside.. rough going at the quarter " chart caller

actually didn't mention in my first description that he fell back 4 lengths ¼ pole - ⅛ pole..

_____________

july 3 ..4/2 * 6/3 * 8/4.5 * 7/4.5 * 3/2.5

1 1/16 turf.. maiden special weight

_________________

2 days ago . wins by 3 lengths @ 1⅜ miles turf vs msw


actually didn't mention in my first description that he fell back 4 lengths ¼ pole - ⅛ pole..



just missed by half length 2nd off a 9 month layoff at mth on sept 9th

[Easy-Rider 66]

Another major points hit for you STR. 1K for Hall of Fame Game contest.

[str]

Another major points hit for you STR. 1K for Hall of Fame Game contest.

Thanks Easy.

[JBEX]

hey str

thought you'd find this interesting even though you might not see it in time..sagamore farm is shipping a 2yo first time starter into Indiana grande..same trainer "de paz" who is as good with maidens as probably anybody in the country (ridiculous numbers) . the horse was purchased last year in july at FTK (fasig tipton kentucky?) for $120k..the same connections won with his half brother at pimlico (2yo) in may last year first time out (sure the win encouraged the purchase of half sibling) .. name of that horse "he hate me" .. name of this year's horse..

R6 #10 she love me (10-1) lol

tom amoss and brad cox (two of the more known better first out trainers) have newbies and brian lynch also a known excellent (not as good as de paz) debut trainer has a horse running ..nice race

[Louisvillekid1]

Love it JBEx

What up STR

Been a while, hope all is well

[JBEX]

hey str

no good on the one above if you didn't look.. one of the big problems I have with assessing first time starters is when they are purchased privately.. at least with a homebred I know the horse wasn't sold cheap and at auction of course I know what he cost.. I'm guessing there's no rule of thumb with these and you just have to know how good the connections are at doing this..not that I'm going to do it but is that an area that could be an edge with research?

[str]

hey str

thought you'd find this interesting even though you might not see it in time..sagamore farm is shipping a 2yo first time starter into Indiana grande..same trainer "de paz" who is as good with maidens as probably anybody in the country (ridiculous numbers) . the horse was purchased last year in july at FTK (fasig tipton kentucky?) for $120k..the same connections won with his half brother at pimlico (2yo) in may last year first time out (sure the win encouraged the purchase of half sibling) .. name of that horse "he hate me" .. name of this year's horse..

R6 #10 she love me (10-1) lol

tom amoss and brad cox (two of the more known better first out trainers) have newbies and brian lynch also a known excellent (not as good as de paz) debut trainer has a horse running ..nice race

Hi JBEX,


Thanks for the heads up. No way I would have seen that horse and that situation.
Yes, FTK is Fasig Tipton Kentucky.

All things pointed to this horse running well first time out pedigree wise, trainer wise, owner wise, first time lasix wise. But the horse was stabled in Md. so why Indiana??
My first thought was there might be a stake there in about 3-4 weeks and they had a plan in mind. I looked and there was nothing but Indiana Bred stakes races.
My second thought was, if this horse is all that, why isn't the horse running in Md.? If it was a top notch baby, shouldn't it be looking at Saratoga? Or Monmouth? Even Delaware, or Phila. if not Md. ?

Sometimes a stable has too many of the same horses for the same races. When that happens, you will slot your horses according to talent, or perceived talent if they are a firster. But you run in Indiana?

With all that said, I saw your post and was able to watch the race on TVG, ( did not get to see the horse warm up, man the coverage stinks!), but saw her totally dead on the board at 15-1. That spoke volumes. Pretty much all I needed to see.

She ran to the cold board as you know.

Either way, I don't get it. If she was a no talent, don't you run her at Penn. Nat.?

The entire move makes no sense IMO. A real head scratcher to have a firster run hundreds of miles away. Maybe I am not aware of something. That must be it. They make too many good moves . Guess I just don't know the whole story.

If there is anything to be learned, it is what we were talking about last month in terms of a firster that is dead on the board. When babies can really run, the money shows almost every time.

Thanks again JBEX.

[str]

Love it JBEx

What up STR

Been a while, hope all is well

Hey man!

Welcome back.

Can you say Saratoga? Lol.

Saw some bits of your thread but got to be honest, I have not followed it as well as I would have liked. Crazy busy the next few weeks getting a property ready for a Sept. sale.

Saw you hit something real big. Great job kid! Keep it up.

Pretty sure I saw you say in a post that you are being selective and going easy with the profits. Waiting to pounce instead of just sending it in. Something you said made me smile. If that is the case, and I will try and reread it over the weekend, All I can say is how proud of you that makes me.

You have a ton of talent wagering. More than most from what I have seen. Combine that with solid money management and the chance becomes very real to profit long term while having fun doing something you love. It's like getting paid to be happy and have fun. What a game !
Keep it up Lkid, I'm rooting for you .

All the best !

[str]

hey str

no good on the one above if you didn't look.. one of the big problems I have with assessing first time starters is when they are purchased privately.. at least with a homebred I know the horse wasn't sold cheap and at auction of course I know what he cost.. I'm guessing there's no rule of thumb with these and you just have to know how good the connections are at doing this..not that I'm going to do it but is that an area that could be an edge with research?

For private sales, connections history, the rider used, the sibling history as firsters if you have any, first lasix, blks. on especially if the trainer seems to do that often, the tote board all can help tell the story. Over time, you will see a certain trainer for instance, have baby after baby run similarly as firsters from year to year. I know mine did, as well as most trainers. Like we talked about before about knowing trainers want their babies on the lead , or somewhat relaxed, or totally relaxed. The patterns repeat themselves quite a bit. I think you are doing a pretty good job of seeking these types out. Haven't been able to follow you thread but practice makes perfect and it seems that that is what you are doing.
Please keep me posted if you have time. Things will get back to normal for me in a few weeks.

Thanks JBEX.

[JBEX]

Hi JBEX,


Thanks for the heads up. No way I would have seen that horse and that situation.
Yes, FTK is Fasig Tipton Kentucky.

All things pointed to this horse running well first time out pedigree wise, trainer wise, owner wise, first time lasix wise. But the horse was stabled in Md. so why Indiana??
My first thought was there might be a stake there in about 3-4 weeks and they had a plan in mind. I looked and there was nothing but Indiana Bred stakes races.
My second thought was, if this horse is all that, why isn't the horse running in Md.? If it was a top notch baby, shouldn't it be looking at Saratoga? Or Monmouth? Even Delaware, or Phila. if not Md. ?

Sometimes a stable has too many of the same horses for the same races. When that happens, you will slot your horses according to talent, or perceived talent if they are a firster. But you run in Indiana?

With all that said, I saw your post and was able to watch the race on TVG, ( did not get to see the horse warm up, man the coverage stinks!), but saw her totally dead on the board at 15-1. That spoke volumes. Pretty much all I needed to see.

She ran to the cold board as you know.

Either way, I don't get it. If she was a no talent, don't you run her at Penn. Nat.?

The entire move makes no sense IMO. A real head scratcher to have a firster run hundreds of miles away. Maybe I am not aware of something. That must be it. They make too many good moves . Guess I just don't know the whole story.

If there is anything to be learned, it is what we were talking about last month in terms of a firster that is dead on the board. When babies can really run, the money shows almost every time.

Thanks again JBEX.

np str


this horse was training up to the race at churchill and had 7 works dating back to 6/18..i guess that partly explains going to indiana... they obviously knew he wasn't saratoga material but as you said there's no way he should have been 15-1 with his credentials.. it's interesting the morning linesmaker had him at 10-1 but that's partly because you had 3 other major trainers in there and with decent horses
.. I think at 5 or 6-1 I could see it but not what he went off at...it's a big hazard of picking these races way in advance and not sure it can be overcome.. on the other hand I have definitely hit horses who seemingly should have been going off lower but not sure it balances out the bad ones over time..gonna keep at it but aware of the pitfalls

[JBEX]

For private sales, connections history, the rider used, the sibling history as firsters if you have any, first lasix, blks. on especially if the trainer seems to do that often, the tote board all can help tell the story. Over time, you will see a certain trainer for instance, have baby after baby run similarly as firsters from year to year. I know mine did, as well as most trainers. Like we talked about before about knowing trainers want their babies on the lead , or somewhat relaxed, or totally relaxed. The patterns repeat themselves quite a bit. I think you are doing a pretty good job of seeking these types out. Haven't been able to follow you thread but practice makes perfect and it seems that that is what you are doing.
Please keep me posted if you have time. Things will get back to normal for me in a few weeks.

Thanks JBEX.

I guess what I was getting at more with this was along these lines.. if I'm looking at a non-auction horse
with the same pedigree I will always tip my cap to the homebred vs the private purchase.. let's say a 2yo fts with a 50k stallion fee/dam was a winner (not stakes)/2 foals to race and one winner and that one was not a stakes winner but a decent horse.. if I see this horse went for 150k at auction I can form some opinion if he might be halfway decent.. if with the same specs he's a homebred at least I know he wasn't sold cheap.. but if he's a private purchase I usually downgrade because I don't know if that horse above was sold for 20k or 100k..if I had to guess in general I would say the better ones go to auction with there being some exceptions but you would know that better than me.. rudy has one in R2..nice speed pedigree by the same sire as army mule (that's getting off the point lol)..decent auction price or homebred probably play him..private purchase too much of a wild card for me.. wound up going with another I liked anyway but if it's a toss up will always lean the other way from the pp

[Louisvillekid1]

Hey man!

Welcome back.

Can you say Saratoga? Lol.

Saw some bits of your thread but got to be honest, I have not followed it as well as I would have liked. Crazy busy the next few weeks getting a property ready for a Sept. sale.

Saw you hit something real big. Great job kid! Keep it up.

Pretty sure I saw you say in a post that you are being selective and going easy with the profits. Waiting to pounce instead of just sending it in. Something you said made me smile. If that is the case, and I will try and reread it over the weekend, All I can say is how proud of you that makes me.

You have a ton of talent wagering. More than most from what I have seen. Combine that with solid money management and the chance becomes very real to profit long term while having fun doing something you love. It's like getting paid to be happy and have fun. What a game !
Keep it up Lkid, I'm rooting for you .

All the best !

extremely kind words

ty very much sir

[Easy-Rider 66]

Hey STR: Read a good article on Lead changes on Horse Racing Nation. A couple of questions for you? How much a factor is the rider in a horse running on his correct lead? They said in the article that Irad Ortiz excels in having a horse on his correct lead. Do you think that lead changes are more important in dirt racing than turf? And lastly the writer mentioned that Alydar was a classic example of a horse that was compromised by his inability to correctly change leads. Did you ever hear of that back in your days?

I know you are busy so no rush to answer the questions. Thx in advance.

[str]

Hey STR: Read a good article on Lead changes on Horse Racing Nation. A couple of questions for you? How much a factor is the rider in a horse running on his correct lead? They said in the article that Irad Ortiz excels in having a horse on his correct lead. Do you think that lead changes are more important in dirt racing than turf? And lastly the writer mentioned that Alydar was a classic example of a horse that was compromised by his inability to correctly change leads. Did you ever hear of that back in your days?


I know you are busy so no rush to answer the questions. Thx in advance.

Sorry for the delay Easy.

Q. How much a factor is the rider in a horse running on his correct lead? They said in the article that Irad Ortiz excels in having a horse on his correct lead.

A. Very few riders have the true gift of communication with a horse to the degree that they can get horses to switch without shifting weight heavily on them. Often times the elite riders do. If they have it, it is a solid edge and one of several reasons why they tend to win as often as they do. A lot of it is the ability to get the horse to really relax and be waiting for commands from the rider. Often times a speed type horse will get all fired up and not remember to switch in the heat of the battle. While a relaxed horse will be able to concentrate on it if it is not a natural thing that happens subconsciously, which is the idea when you teach them as babies.
The shifting of the weight to make them switch can sometimes lead to making the horse uncomfortable and they do not respond like you would hope. Sometimes it works beautifully and sometimes it doesn't. Some riders will do that while others will leave them alone fearing that they will quit more if they make them. Only a really well taught gifted apprentice would even be thinking about it in a race.The game is too fast for a young rider when they start out to remember about that stuff. It starts to slow down for them in year two or three. Very similar to NFL QB's.

Every horse is different so you have to know the horse. For the bettor, it is impossible with the knowledge printed to use it as a factor except in one case.
If you see a pure speed sprinter that quits a lot, watch to see if not changing leads is why. If so, at least you know what to expect. Some want clear leads and or slow fractions and will switch when things go right (Relaxed) while others pretty much never do. If they never switch and always quit because of that lead problem, that is good to know.


Q. Do you think that lead changes are more important in dirt racing than turf?

A. It is really important on both but it is fair to say that it is probably more so on dirt. An overall more demanding surface the vast majority of the time right?

Q. And lastly the writer mentioned that Alydar was a classic example of a horse that was compromised by his inability to correctly change leads. Did you ever hear of that back in your days?

A. Absolutely. He was a tremendous horse to be able to run the way he did and not be able to distribute the workload like Affirmed and most do. I think that is why I probably had more admiration for Alydar than Affirmed. It was like he was fighting with one hand tied behind his back.

Hope that helps Easy !

Follow up if you need to.

[JBEX]

hey str ...you're buddy (if you weren't aware) has a $425k first time starter coming up in the 7th at saratoga.. defintley at lot to pay for the surface pedigree. .be rooting for her

[Louisvillekid1]

GL STR

Fav poster on the site as always

[Easy-Rider 66]

Sorry for the delay Easy.

Q. How much a factor is the rider in a horse running on his correct lead? They said in the article that Irad Ortiz excels in having a horse on his correct lead.

A. Very few riders have the true gift of communication with a horse to the degree that they can get horses to switch without shifting weight heavily on them. Often times the elite riders do. If they have it, it is a solid edge and one of several reasons why they tend to win as often as they do. A lot of it is the ability to get the horse to really relax and be waiting for commands from the rider. Often times a speed type horse will get all fired up and not remember to switch in the heat of the battle. While a relaxed horse will be able to concentrate on it if it is not a natural thing that happens subconsciously, which is the idea when you teach them as babies.
The shifting of the weight to make them switch can sometimes lead to making the horse uncomfortable and they do not respond like you would hope. Sometimes it works beautifully and sometimes it doesn't. Some riders will do that while others will leave them alone fearing that they will quit more if they make them. Only a really well taught gifted apprentice would even be thinking about it in a race.The game is too fast for a young rider when they start out to remember about that stuff. It starts to slow down for them in year two or three. Very similar to NFL QB's.

Every horse is different so you have to know the horse. For the bettor, it is impossible with the knowledge printed to use it as a factor except in one case.
If you see a pure speed sprinter that quits a lot, watch to see if not changing leads is why. If so, at least you know what to expect. Some want clear leads and or slow fractions and will switch when things go right (Relaxed) while others pretty much never do. If they never switch and always quit because of that lead problem, that is good to know.


Q. Do you think that lead changes are more important in dirt racing than turf?

A. It is really important on both but it is fair to say that it is probably more so on dirt. An overall more demanding surface the vast majority of the time right?

Q. And lastly the writer mentioned that Alydar was a classic example of a horse that was compromised by his inability to correctly change leads. Did you ever hear of that back in your days?

A. Absolutely. He was a tremendous horse to be able to run the way he did and not be able to distribute the workload like Affirmed and most do. I think that is why I probably had more admiration for Alydar than Affirmed. It was like he was fighting with one hand tied behind his back.

Hope that helps Easy !

Follow up if you need to.

Thx a lot STR. And good luck with your business. Hit us back if it was a successful exercise. GL.

[str]

Thx a lot STR. And good luck with your business. Hit us back if it was a successful exercise. GL.

About 2 more weeks and it will be back to normal.

Ask away if needed. I check everyday.

[str]

hey str ...you're buddy (if you weren't aware) has a $425k first time starter coming up in the 7th at saratoga.. defintley at lot to pay for the surface pedigree. .be rooting for her

Was not aware. Haven't talked to him since right before the meet started.

We will talk soon. Will find out what's up.

Thanks JBEX !

[str]

GL STR

Fav poster on the site as always

Thanks Kid

Stay focused.

Go Get em !

[JBEX]

Was not aware. Haven't talked to him since right before the meet started.

We will talk soon. Will find out what's up.

Thanks JBEX !

sounds good..look forward to hearing his take on both of them

[Louisvillekid1]

STR,

You know the respect level I have for you

And all that ,

I made a post about a certain topic

And yeah as good as I am w/ my words

You know my mind/talent/ramble

And also JBEX/Easy/Fetch/har

Would like your opinion

——


Well victory Gallop holds a place in my heart

Finally got there in NY

Surprised didn’t have better success in the breeding game

I just not a big fan of Cali racing

I mean what baffert has done recently and almost did w/ those 2 silver charm real quiet

Is amazing

Think the poly tracks have helped the horses in several ways

Kinda lost interest in kenneland when they switched

Wasn’t that long ago Keeneland didn’t have track announcer and every came dressed correct

Lots of stories past down about that

Imo ( and I’ve never been close to the game) just a handicapper / fan)

Cali races are far less grueling

Almost built , maybe even created for easier wins ,

You gotta work much harder in NY circuit , through different weather / track conditions / bigger fields, etc

I almost think west coast trainers team up to allow softer races for their potential stars...

I believe all that equals/ requires much more from the pilots in game , combined w/ the constant comp

Everything about west coast is just simply softer than even mid west/ south , let alone East coast

Pretty much any sport

I’m gonna copy this and get STR’s thoughts

As this is just my rambling opinion

But I’m sure he will not disappoint

Love you all

Stay hott

——

Side note

I think the Maryland jockey club underrated also

Miss Ramon and Jeremy connecting on those exactas constantly @ dely

Thank you in advance

[JBEX]

STR,

You know the respect level I have for you

And all that ,

I made a post about a certain topic

And yeah as good as I am w/ my words

You know my mind/talent/ramble

And also JBEX/Easy/Fetch/har

Would like your opinion

——


Well victory Gallop holds a place in my heart

Finally got there in NY

Surprised didn’t have better success in the breeding game

I just not a big fan of Cali racing

I mean what baffert has done recently and almost did w/ those 2 silver charm real quiet

Is amazing

Think the poly tracks have helped the horses in several ways

Kinda lost interest in kenneland when they switched

Wasn’t that long ago Keeneland didn’t have track announcer and every came dressed correct

Lots of stories past down about that

Imo ( and I’ve never been close to the game) just a handicapper / fan)

Cali races are far less grueling

Almost built , maybe even created for easier wins ,

You gotta work much harder in NY circuit , through different weather / track conditions / bigger fields, etc

I almost think west coast trainers team up to allow softer races for their potential stars...

I believe all that equals/ requires much more from the pilots in game , combined w/ the constant comp

Everything about west coast is just simply softer than even mid west/ south , let alone East coast

Pretty much any sport

I’m gonna copy this and get STR’s thoughts

As this is just my rambling opinion

But I’m sure he will not disappoint

Love you all

Stay hott

——

Side note

I think the Maryland jockey club underrated also

Miss Ramon and Jeremy connecting on those exactas constantly @ dely

Thank you in advance

I agree lkid..I think when you combine the factors you said small fields,perfect weather and the glib,speed favoring nature of the tracks out there it does have a different feel to it than east/midwest racing..don't care for it as much either..glad the bc will be at churchill this year as i'm sure you are also

[Louisvillekid1]

Thank you for sharing your thoughts

Much respect

[Easy-Rider 66]

I like the Cali racing, but agree with you and JBEX thats it does seem different than NYRA. DMR one of my favorite meets though I agree with Kid that NYRA is a tougher environment. Would be interested to get STR's thought on the differences. Thx LKID.

[JBEX]

hey str


there's a horse shipping in from maryland (saratoga) and the trainer is ollie figgins III.. decent conditioner by his record this year.. went to his twitter and had a picture of his dad (jockey) winning a race at waterford park in 1986 . just curious if that name rings a bell with you ?

[JBEX]

ok str..one more for you and no rush to respond..the last at saratoga yesterday louisville kid asked my opinion about a horse that won and paid $98..I responded that I thought the horses race in a sprint 4 races back was very similar to his previous race..he stretched out off of that and ran a decent 5th less than 4 lengths off the winner @ 77-1..he stretched out yesterday 6.5 to 9f the other time 6f to 8f..the extra distance on the stretchout and overall probably didn't hurt his cause either..my question is do you think the trainer felt that not only the stretchout but the way he ran the sprint (running line) was a positive for his chances today..do you feel the running lines were similar for his last race and 4 back and might have set him up nice for this rather than just plain old sprint to route? obviously you'd have to look at the pp's..R9 #7 won't be missed

np if you can't as I know you're busy lately

[str]

hey str


there's a horse shipping in from maryland (saratoga) and the trainer is ollie figgins III.. decent conditioner by his record this year.. went to his twitter and had a picture of his dad (jockey) winning a race at waterford park in 1986 . just curious if that name rings a bell with you ?

FYI: I will get to the question about east and west over the weekend as well as the stretch out question. Real quick . I LOVE finding stretch outs from one to two turns that have shown they like it . Also LOVE turn backs from 2 turns to a one turn 7/8ths as long as they have shown they like that. Always a price and always underbet. A longshot just waiting to happen.

As for this one,

I remember his dad for sure. He rode at CharlesTown for years. Almost positive I rode him somewhere along the way. Maybe I ran one at C.T. ? Not sure but hard to believe I didn't ride him somewhere. Probably not in Md. though. That would have been late 70's probably.
Thanks for that JBEX. Always fun to remember the early years.

[JBEX]

hey str

I apologize for backlogging you lol but as per usual nothing urgent here.. look at the winner of R10 at saratoga #1 glorious empire ($33.40)..something to get a horse to that level as a 7 year old after concluding the previous year the way he did wouldn't you say ?

[JBEX]

hey str

I apologize for backlogging you lol but as per usual nothing urgent here.. look at the winner of R10 at saratoga #1 glorious empire ($33.40)..something to get a horse to that level as a 7 year old after concluding the previous year the way he did wouldn't you say ?

he's a gelding with 22 (now 23) starts...remember what you said about these types lol !!

[str]

STR,

You know the respect level I have for you

And all that ,

I made a post about a certain topic

And yeah as good as I am w/ my words

You know my mind/talent/ramble

And also JBEX/Easy/Fetch/har

Would like your opinion

——


Well victory Gallop holds a place in my heart

Finally got there in NY

Surprised didn’t have better success in the breeding game

I just not a big fan of Cali racing

I mean what baffert has done recently and almost did w/ those 2 silver charm real quiet

Is amazing

Think the poly tracks have helped the horses in several ways

Kinda lost interest in kenneland when they switched

Wasn’t that long ago Keeneland didn’t have track announcer and every came dressed correct

Lots of stories past down about that

Imo ( and I’ve never been close to the game) just a handicapper / fan)

Cali races are far less grueling

Almost built , maybe even created for easier wins ,

You gotta work much harder in NY circuit , through different weather / track conditions / bigger fields, etc

I almost think west coast trainers team up to allow softer races for their potential stars...

I believe all that equals/ requires much more from the pilots in game , combined w/ the constant comp

Everything about west coast is just simply softer than even mid west/ south , let alone East coast

Pretty much any sport

I’m gonna copy this and get STR’s thoughts

As this is just my rambling opinion

But I’m sure he will not disappoint

Love you all

Stay hott

——

Side note

I think the Maryland jockey club underrated also

Miss Ramon and Jeremy connecting on those exactas constantly @ dely

Thank you in advance

Sorry for the delay. One more stupid week and we go to market.

Back to normal just in time for football. I'm pumped.

As for this:
Victory Gallop:
Victory Gallop was such a nice horse. It would have been nice to see him do better at stud but you never know. Well, maybe sometimes you do, but not in his case. I had already hung up my stop watch when Elliott trained him. Barely knew EW anyway but would have loved to hear him talk about VG in training had I still been there. Keenland Sept. sales is where I could run into people I only saw once or twice a year and sit on a bench in the morning and hear some great stories. Missing that type of stuff as much or more than the game. The people, the stories... There's nothing like it Lkid.

Q. I just not a big fan of Cali racing
A. Neither am I. I am an East coast guy. And when I was learning the game, the East-West rivalry was a big deal. Doesn't seem to be that way anymore but I am out of touch enough that I could be wrong.
Speed bias:
I hated the daily speed bias. Too me, it was and is a joke. It is my opinion that a bias like that has forced a lot of trainers to alter their training comfort zone, if they had one, and encourage speed, speed, speed. You do not see west coast trainers buying babies that are by solid closers as a rule. They know they need the speed.
Back before the breakdown rate and horse safety came to the public forefront, the tracks out west were throwing down 9 and change everyday. It was like a brick road. I thought that was a disgrace.
Horses with bad feet, which most Cal. Breds have, due to dietary problems as babies from the poor soil the west coast has when trying to grow hay,etc., were severely hampered on those hard surfaces. I never understood the logic. Because I didn't understand it, and actually resented it, disliking Cal. racing was easy for me. And being from the east, well that iced it.

Poly Surface:
I never had to deal with the poly track stuff. Thank God. Another thing I disliked. Guess I'm a traditionalist. Lol. And when I do play the ponies, which is rare these days but might try and find more time sooner rather than later, I can't see me playing that surface. I like having an edge and would not feel like I had one on poly. Maybe over time, but have no idea as of now.

" lt Wasn’t that long ago Keeneland didn’t have track announcer and every came dressed correct "

I loved that. Thought it was really cool. I never ran a horse there. Wished I had.

Cali races are far less grueling

Almost built , maybe even created for easier wins ,

Daily biases will do that.

"You gotta work much harder in NY circuit , through different weather / track conditions / bigger fields, etc

Obviously I agree.

"I almost think west coast trainers team up to allow softer races for their potential stars."
Can't say for sure but they have many less horses to draw from than east coast venues.

I believe all that equals/ requires much more from the pilots in game , combined w/ the constant comp

Everything about west coast is just simply softer than even mid west/ south , let alone East coast

Pretty much any sport
Preachin to the choir Lkid. I love it !!

Side note

I think the Maryland jockey club underrated also

Miss Ramon and Jeremy connecting on those exactas constantly @ dely

Gotta admit, I was always proud to say that I trained in Md. from June 76- May 2001
I trained with and competed against Dutrow, Delp, Leatherbury, Tammaro, Alfano, Mr. Henry Clark, Sonny Hine, Frank Alexander, Barclay Tagg, Bernie Bond, John Robb, Eddie Gaudet, the Wolfendale family, Dickie Small, John Forbes, The Salzman family, Graham Motion, The Capuano brothers, Michael Pino, the Voss's, the Merrymans and many more, some of whom I will regret not naming I'm sure.

I saw so many great riders in Maryland. Waaay too many to list . And plenty more at Delaware and Monmouth. Many of those riders I find myself humbled and privileged to have been able to call my friend.

They are pound for pound the toughest athletes I know of. And I have had more than one former or active at the time, Major league Baseball , NFL, NHL and NBA player as well as coaches and team trainers say those exact words. The praise for the jockey's was consistent from all leagues.
These trainers named, including myself as well as the jocks , would all compete fiercely everyday, would sometimes take things personally,(I know I did), and vow to get even in the claim box asap, but had any of them found themselves in a crisis or even a flat tire on the side of the road, I guarantee you they all including myself, would have stopped to make sure the other one was OK and help anyway they could.
That is who they were and that is how it is on the backside. Compete down to the bone against all you, but know that one of the people that work inside the same fence is in need of help and you can bet your ass that another from inside the fence will help out.

THAT, is what I miss and THAT is what makes me proud to have competed in that arena for all the years I did.

If the world would ever feel that way towards one another, this place would be something else.

Here's hoping.

Thanks lkid,JBEX/Easy/Fetch/har /Mr.GandT/and everyone that contributes, reads,or asks questions . Without you, this thread does not exist.
Sorry for the earlier omission, I copied and pasted from the question without thinking of everyone that has contributed. I truly appreciate all of you.
All the best my friends.

[str]

ok str..one more for you and no rush to respond..the last at saratoga yesterday louisville kid asked my opinion about a horse that won and paid $98..I responded that I thought the horses race in a sprint 4 races back was very similar to his previous race..he stretched out off of that and ran a decent 5th less than 4 lengths off the winner @ 77-1..he stretched out yesterday 6.5 to 9f the other time 6f to 8f..the extra distance on the stretchout and overall probably didn't hurt his cause either..my question is do you think the trainer felt that not only the stretchout but the way he ran the sprint (running line) was a positive for his chances today..do you feel the running lines were similar for his last race and 4 back and might have set him up nice for this rather than just plain old sprint to route? obviously you'd have to look at the pp's..R9 #7 won't be missed

np if you can't as I know you're busy lately

I know I have said this before but definitely worth repeating.

Horses can speak to you through body language, eyes, temperament and most importantly for handicappers, by showing either an appreciation or disdain for certain situations.

Stretching out and/or turning back is one of them. If you see that they faired well or poorly once from doing so and the pattern is about to repeat, trust the previous effort until it is proven wrong. See it happen twice, bank on it. Unless there is an unforeseen excuse, they will repeat it damn near every time. It is such a solid handicapping tool IMO.

[str]

hey str

I apologize for backlogging you lol but as per usual nothing urgent here.. look at the winner of R10 at saratoga #1 glorious empire ($33.40)..something to get a horse to that level as a 7 year old after concluding the previous year the way he did wouldn't you say ?

Happy to answer JBEX.

Appreciate the question.
A great job for sure.
My favorite age of older gelding was 7 years old.
Old hard knockers can have great years at that age. Just another example of it.

[JBEX]

I know I have said this before but definitely worth repeating.

Horses can speak to you through body language, eyes, temperament and most importantly for handicappers, by showing either an appreciation or disdain for certain situations.

Stretching out and/or turning back is one of them. If you see that they faired well or poorly once from doing so and the pattern is about to repeat, trust the previous effort until it is proven wrong. See it happen twice, bank on it. Unless there is an unforeseen excuse, they will repeat it damn near every time. It is such a solid handicapping tool IMO.

great to know that seeing the horse doing it before is important.. I have always upped my opinion when I see that,being i weigh repeating patterns with that and other things as meaningful.. those names you reeled off as fellow trainers and friends go back a lot of drf's for me lol.. haven't had john forbes cross my mind in a while but remember I use to like him.. think he used to use julie krone a lot but wouldn't bet my life on it

[JBEX]

Happy to answer JBEX.

Appreciate the question.
A great job for sure.
My favorite age of older gelding was 7 years old.
Old hard knockers can have great years at that age. Just another example of it.

all these years of looking I feel like this about geldings. ..5 or 6 yo no question age not an issue ..to me 7 is kind of like the transition year because at 8 while you can of course have a good one starting to get a little long in the tooth..understand lots of other factors contribute to this but just talking in general terms..thanks str