[phillybadboy]

i hope i'm right

[cky312]

Philly I don't mean to hate but you don't need to start a thread for every single fight you have a handicap on. I'm not hating since everyone is entitled to their opinions, but I'd suggest perhaps just starting your own thread like a few others have.

[bogbat]

Yeah at least tell us why you think he will win.

[phillybadboy]

i hear you'll, but i like different threads, that way conversation can be for that specific thing

[bogbat]

i hear you'll, but i like different threads, that way conversation can be for that specific thing

You're hardly initiating a conversation with this thread. How did you decide that you think he will win? Flip a coin?

[Vaughany]

ha at least say because u think he has superior wrestling or something!

[phillybadboy]

i wanted to hear your guys views and opinions

[phillybadboy]

sometimes i go this guys a dumbass, but sometimes i go that makes sense

[Vaughany]

Too close to call....the only smart bet would be to bet big on it going to decision.

[36mafia]

sometimes i go this guys a dumbass, but sometimes i go that makes sense

couldnt be more fitting

[phillybadboy]

i think mat wiman takes it

[Vaughany]

i think mat wiman takes it

hence the thread title!

[lasker]

Too close to call....the only smart bet would be to bet big on it going to decision.

I agree completely. If anything I would bet Danzig as he is the much smarter fighter who takes fewer risks, but stay away from the side bet and go with the decision prop for this one. They are both very gritty and neither is a great finisher.

[phillybadboy]

so you guys don't like the sides in this one?

[Tree Rollins]

I like Matt Wiman. Because Mac Danzig is a vegan.

[JuicedUp]

I like Matt Wiman. Because Mac Danzig is a vegan.

A vegan fighter?!?! All in on Wiman.

[lasker]

I like Matt Wiman. Because Mac Danzig is a vegan.

So is Jake Shields

[Vrakas]

Jake shields can't finish a fight with 4 straight rounds of full mount... so much for vegan fighters

[Chairib]

Jake shields can't finish a fight with 4 straight rounds of full mount... so much for vegan fighters

Getting the full mount makes it easy to finish a guy?

[JuicedUp]

Getting the full mount makes it easy to finish a guy?

Yes, for non-vegans it does.

[bogbat]

Getting the full mount makes it easy to finish a guy?

Lol, its one of THE most dominant positions in MMA.

Hendo does have one the best tried and tested chins in the game though.

[Chairib]

Lol, its one of THE most dominant positions in MMA.

Hendo does have one the best tried and tested chins in the game though.

Yes it's considered a dominant position but it's clear you don't really understand why.

Back in the early days, getting the full mount was great because you could just strike away to your hearts content. A Fighter's knowledge of grappling back then was pathetic, so you didn't have to worry about him countering. A great example of that would an early UFC fight involving Pat Smith and that guy who was studying Ninjitsu. I think Brad Morris?

But a lot of things have changed since then, especially in context of grappling for MMA, as opposed to grappling for sport.

Good groundwork is showcased by the ability to control your opponent by getting position on him. You're awarded points for things like passing his guard or sweeps. In sports jiu-jitsu and nogi grappling the most points are awarded by either taking your opponents back or getting the mount.

In MMA, getting the full mount isn't going to get you a bunch of points like it would in a grappling competition. Furthermore getting the full mount basically limits you to a couple of moves offensively and that predictability makes it very easy to game plan against.

Jake's ability to get that position, and more importantly maintain it, was what made that grappling display impressive.

But sidecontrol, or even staying in your opponents halfguard is a much more advantageus position to be when you're talking about MMA.

Not that any of this, or Veganism, has shit to do with the Danzing/Miller fight.

[westerner]

Yes it's considered a dominant position but it's clear you don't really understand why.

Back in the early days, getting the full mount was great because you could just strike away to your hearts content. A Fighter's knowledge of grappling back then was pathetic, so you didn't have to worry about him countering. A great example of that would an early UFC fight involving Pat Smith and that guy who was studying Ninjitsu. I think Brad Morris?

But a lot of things have changed since then, especially in context of grappling for MMA, as opposed to grappling for sport.

Good groundwork is showcased by the ability to control your opponent by getting position on him. You're awarded points for things like passing his guard or sweeps. In sports jiu-jitsu and nogi grappling the most points are awarded by either taking your opponents back or getting the mount.

In MMA, getting the full mount isn't going to get you a bunch of points like it would in a grappling competition. Furthermore getting the full mount basically limits you to a couple of moves offensively and that predictability makes it very easy to game plan against.

Jake's ability to get that position, and more importantly maintain it, was what made that grappling display impressive.

But sidecontrol, or even staying in your opponents halfguard is a much more advantageus position to be when you're talking about MMA.

Not that any of this, or Veganism, has shit to do with the Danzing/Miller fight.

I gotta completely disagree about the full mount. As a position just the way the weight is on the bottom is extremely gassing, its very difficult to get out of and the only ways to escape it really require a lot of explosion. Just by maintaining the position you tire the guy on the bottom out very fast, it looks great to the judges, and you can trap an arm and go to crucifix, if you have good flexibility and grip strength you can set up a triangle or arm triangle, and if your great at sweeps you can fool the guy into getting caught in transition knowing that you can sweep if you lose position in a scramble that ensues. A lot of times the options are more limited in full mount than in half gaurd or side, but side is much easier to get out of, its harder to keep your weight planted on top, and strikes do less damage + make more risk for the guy to shrimp out. If a guy is on top of someone who is a really good JJ player then half gaurd is great to keep them flat on their back and go belly to belly like brock did, but if you don't keep their hips down its not any better than full mount. I think that Cain and Brock's use of half gaurd makes it look like everyone can use it that way but they have a certain body type and skillset that allows it. Just how Fedor's body type and long arms as well as russian punching style helped him develop the GNP he's famous for from inside the gaurd.

[westerner]

Lol, its one of THE most dominant positions in MMA. Hendo does have one the best tried and tested chins in the game though.

I think diet nog tapped him with an armbar from a scramble from full mount on top of hendo

[sundin4prez]

good luck

[phillybadboy]

I like Matt Wiman. Because Mac Danzig is a vegan.

i like your reasoning, it is better than mines

[phillybadboy]

i predict 2 and 0 for me saturday night in MMA

[bogbat]

Yes it's considered a dominant position but it's clear you don't really understand why. Back in the early days, getting the full mount was great because you could just strike away to your hearts content. A Fighter's knowledge of grappling back then was pathetic, so you didn't have to worry about him countering. A great example of that would an early UFC fight involving Pat Smith and that guy who was studying Ninjitsu. I think Brad Morris? But a lot of things have changed since then, especially in context of grappling for MMA, as opposed to grappling for sport. Good groundwork is showcased by the ability to control your opponent by getting position on him. You're awarded points for things like passing his guard or sweeps. In sports jiu-jitsu and nogi grappling the most points are awarded by either taking your opponents back or getting the mount. In MMA, getting the full mount isn't going to get you a bunch of points like it would in a grappling competition. Furthermore getting the full mount basically limits you to a couple of moves offensively and that predictability makes it very easy to game plan against. Jake's ability to get that position, and more importantly maintain it, was what made that grappling display impressive. But sidecontrol, or even staying in your opponents halfguard is a much more advantageus position to be when you're talking about MMA. Not that any of this, or Veganism, has shit to do with the Danzing/Miller fight.

What about me simply saying mount is one of the most dominant positions makes makes it clear to you I don't understand why? I've been doing Judo for three years and while we focus a lot more on throws than the ground game I'm no stranger to it. What's clear is you have no idea what you're talking about.

[Chairib]

What about me simply saying mount is one of the most dominant positions makes makes it clear to you I don't understand why? I've been doing Judo for three years and while we focus a lot more on throws than the ground game I'm no stranger to it. What's clear is you have no idea what you're talking about.

Congrats you've doing judo for three years. I've been training BJJ since '95.

Now instead of just making declarative statements, try actually stating some facts and make your point.

[Straight Cash]

Double loss in this fight? Neither should be in the UFC anymore.

[Chairib]

Double loss in this fight? Neither should be in the UFC anymore.

I wouldn't be surprised if the loser gets dropped by the UFC. But saying neither should be in the UFC is a bit overboard, they're both tough opponents. Plus they're both coming off wins and it's a pretty evenly matched fight between these two guys.

Personally, I think could go down in a similar fashion as Wiman's fight with Sam Stout.

[phillybadboy]

Congrats you've doing judo for three years. I've been training BJJ since '95.

Now instead of just making declarative statements, try actually stating some facts and make your point.

well i've been thumb wrestling since elementary school

[Vaughany]

Congrats you've doing judo for three years. I've been training BJJ since '95.

Now instead of just making declarative statements, try actually stating some facts and make your point.

BJJ since '95....that definitely makes you superior then!

[Kaladarus]

I think it's beyond embarrassing not to finish someone with 15mins of full mount. That fight broke a record for longest time spent full mount. The only reason the record was broken, was because of Shields inability to finish the fight when the fight was begging to be stopped.

[bogbat]

Congrats you've doing judo for three years. I've been training BJJ since '95. Now instead of just making declarative statements, try actually stating some facts and make your point.

I'm not going to bother arguing with you. You have an argument going on in nearly every active thread in this sub-forum and you seem to pull them out of no where like you did here. It appears like you feel you're some kind of MMA expert with superior knowledge than everyone else here and the way you word your arguments makes you come across like a real arrogant douche.

well i've been thumb wrestling since elementary school

BJJ since '95....that definitely makes you superior then!