1. 12-08-11 08:48 AM #36
    Vaughany
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCalculator View Post
    Maia might be competitive. Maia's only hope is to take him down and his takedowns aren't world class. I just see him getting picked apart on the feet.

    I'd like to see Bisping against Munoz, Sonnen, Rumble, or Belfort. I'll bet BIG against Bisping if any of these matches manifest.
    People will argue that his takedowns are actually quite good though - he was able to trip Sonnen to the ground afterall
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  2. 12-08-11 11:21 AM #37
    sirchadwick1
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCalculator View Post
    Maia might be competitive. Maia's only hope is to take him down and his takedowns aren't world class. I just see him getting picked apart on the feet.

    I'd like to see Bisping against Munoz, Sonnen, Rumble, or Belfort. I'll bet BIG against Bisping if any of these matches manifest.
    I don't think he'll get picked apart on his feet unless he gasses for some reason. Bisping's striking is a bit sloppy and Maia's is much improved as we saw against Anderson, Santiago, and the first round against Munoz. But honestly, I think if Maia wants this on the mat he is getting it there and Bis is in trouble.
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  3. 12-08-11 12:07 PM #38
    TheCalculator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaughany View Post

    People will argue that his takedowns are actually quite good though - he was able to trip Sonnen to the ground afterall
    Bisping's TDD is actually quite good at 64%. And he's very good at getting back up. I think Maia is going to struggle to get him there and struggle even more to keep him there.
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  4. 12-08-11 01:19 PM #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCalculator View Post
    Bisping's TDD is actually quite good at 64%. And he's very good at getting back up. I think Maia is going to struggle to get him there and struggle even more to keep him there.
    But who he has faced who offered a legit take-down threat? He hasn't faced anybody with legit takedown offence since Rashad Evans - Dan Henderson made no attempt to grapple so he can't be included. Even Dan Miller who's base is wrestling hardly attempted any take-downs and as we all know he isn't near Damian Maia's overall level. Wanderlei and Jason Miller are the only other two who have attempted takedowns and both were successful. So with this in mind Bisping's TDD should be at 64% if not better when you consider the lack of wrestlers he's faced or guys in general who were happy to stand even if takedowns would of been the better option. IMO Maia has better takedowns than both Miller and Wanderlei and also obviously is the better overall grappler when you consider BJJ so for me I think there is a good chance Maia gets him down. Main issue for Maia will be that Bisping is solid in the clinch - loves to throw knees and could catch Maia if Damian rushes the takedown or gets too comfortable. The takedowns might not even be Bisping's main issue - Maia showed improved stand-up against Munoz and tagged him a lot in the first. Bisping 's defence is very questionable at times - he gets hit in most fights...Maia could definitely catch him
    Last edited by Vaughany; 12-08-11 at 01:23 PM.
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  5. 12-08-11 02:16 PM #40
    TheCalculator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaughany View Post

    But who he has faced who offered a legit take-down threat? He hasn't faced anybody with legit takedown offence since Rashad Evans - Dan Henderson made no attempt to grapple so he can't be included.
    This was part of my point earlier. He's WELL protected by the UFC in my books. Let's see them throw a top level wrestler at him. Sonnen would own him for 25 minutes straight.
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  6. 12-08-11 03:33 PM #41
    Beelzebubzy
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCalculator View Post
    This was part of my point earlier. He's WELL protected by the UFC in my books. Let's see them throw a top level wrestler at him. Sonnen would own him for 25 minutes straight.
    Not Top Level like Rashad who Bisping has fought but he also faced and 'beaten' Hamill
    I scored that fight for Hamill
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  7. 12-14-11 12:50 PM #42
    proposition joe
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    Wineland vs Bedford added. I'm super stoked to see this matchup.
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  8. 12-14-11 06:56 PM #43
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    As expected the preliminary card for next month's UFC on FOX 2 event will air live on FUEL TV.

    Officials recently confirmed the plans, which include the night's full preliminary card and a post-event show on the cable station.
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  9. 12-14-11 09:18 PM #44
    gabe
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    Quote Originally Posted by proposition joe View Post
    Wineland vs Bedford added. I'm super stoked to see this matchup.
    Me, too. Bedford should be a big dog, right?
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  10. 12-14-11 10:09 PM #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by gabe View Post
    Me, too. Bedford should be a big dog, right?
    I expect him to be a fair sized dog, my guess is +200 range.
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  11. 12-20-11 05:28 PM #46
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    Less than one week after UFC president Dana White announced that Strikeforce would no longer be promoting heavyweight contests, UFC executives today announced Lavar Johnson has been imported to the UFC and will meet Joey Beltran.

    The two heavyweights will clash at UFC on FOX 2, which takes place Jan. 28 at Chicago's United Center.
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  12. 12-22-11 02:15 AM #47
    THE_LOCKSMITH
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCalculator View Post
    This was part of my point earlier. He's WELL protected by the UFC in my books. Let's see them throw a top level wrestler at him. Sonnen would own him for 25 minutes straight.
    You'd rather watch Sonnen take him down for 3 rounds? Sonnen has only finished one of 13 UFC/WEC fights. I know Bisping comes off as a di@k but you have to look past that.

    Maia could have easily been awarded the decision over Munoz, he's a top fighter and they are not protecting Bisping in this fight
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  13. 12-22-11 11:32 AM #48
    gabe
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    Quote Originally Posted by THE_LOCKSMITH View Post
    You'd rather watch Sonnen take him down for 3 rounds? Sonnen has only finished one of 13 UFC/WEC fights. I know Bisping comes off as a di@k but you have to look past that.

    Maia could have easily been awarded the decision over Munoz, he's a top fighter and they are not protecting Bisping in this fight
    Yeah, I thought Maia beat Munoz... and I had a lot of money on Munoz - had a big sigh of relief when his name was announced as winner.
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  14. 12-22-11 01:55 PM #49
    Beelzebubzy
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    3u on Evans at -165

    Standing this is a mismatch. Even if Evans is chinny, Davis has to dry hump for 5 rounds and not get tired.
    Size, Strength, and wrestling Pedigree to Davis
    Speed, Athleticism, and striking go to Evans
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  15. 12-22-11 01:58 PM #50
    Vaughany
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    If I remember rightly Evans was only -110 or something on WH when the odds were out for there original fight. Gonna be annoyed if I have to take him at -165
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  16. 12-22-11 02:04 PM #51
    NunyaBidness
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaughany View Post
    If I remember rightly Evans was only -110 or something on WH when the odds were out for there original fight. Gonna be annoyed if I have to take him at -165
    We've learned a lot about both fighters in the interim. Rashad will close deeper than -165 for sure.
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  17. 12-22-11 02:05 PM #52
    Beelzebubzy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaughany View Post
    If I remember rightly Evans was only -110 or something on WH when the odds were out for there original fight. Gonna be annoyed if I have to take him at -165
    I do recall it being a coin toss as well. But the tito beatdown and the long layoff for Davis are causing this line to not be a coin flip.
    I think there is a value. Evans has consistently fought top fighters in Silva, Rampage, Machida, Forrest and I guess the Tito win. His striking was shown off at 133. In addition, Davis will not have the striking here to set up the takedowns. I expect this line to get worse for Evans, he carfries a name and is a former champ. Davis has only beaten UFCers with questionable TDD besides an undersized Tim Boetsch
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  18. 12-22-11 02:12 PM #53
    Vaughany
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    Quote Originally Posted by NunyaBidness View Post
    We've learned a lot about both fighters in the interim. Rashad will close deeper than -165 for sure.
    Very true. Rashad has been more active as well. I thought the Davis hype would be enough though to keep Evans better than -150, but I think he'll end up -200.
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  19. 12-22-11 02:43 PM #54
    Beelzebubzy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaughany View Post
    Very true. Rashad has been more active as well. I thought the Davis hype would be enough though to keep Evans better than -150, but I think he'll end up -200.

    Down to -150
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  20. 12-22-11 02:49 PM #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beelzebubzy View Post
    Down to -150
    I know, shocked. Wish DSI would let me smash it again like 5d does.
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  21. 12-22-11 02:52 PM #56
    gabe
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    You guys are going huge on Rashad? Dang.

    Remember, Tito didn't look bad against him.
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  22. 12-22-11 04:02 PM #57
    Beelzebubzy
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    down to -145,
    I am being faded haha
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  23. 12-23-11 11:41 AM #58
    proposition joe
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    Huge play on Evans at 145. Would've made the same play at 165 as well, I have him close to minus 300 on my breakdowns
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  24. 12-23-11 12:05 PM #59
    NunyaBidness
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    Quote Originally Posted by proposition joe View Post
    Huge play on Evans at 145. Would've made the same play at 165 as well, I have him close to minus 300 on my breakdowns
    Yup.
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  25. 12-24-11 10:37 AM #60
    PunisherIND
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    i'm liking munoz at +215. quite frankly i think this fight should be close to evens. everyone is assuming chael will have a big wrestling edge, but i don't see it that way. both guys have acknowledged that munoz beat chael whenever they wrestled in college. i don't see how chael takes this fight aside from out-wrestling munoz for 3 rounds, which, i have already stated, i dont think will happen.
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  26. 12-24-11 10:49 AM #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by PunisherIND View Post
    i'm liking munoz at +215. quite frankly i think this fight should be close to evens. everyone is assuming chael will have a big wrestling edge, but i don't see it that way. both guys have acknowledged that munoz beat chael whenever they wrestled in college. i don't see how chael takes this fight aside from out-wrestling munoz for 3 rounds, which, i have already stated, i dont think will happen.
    Sonnen-Okami
    Munoz-Okami
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  27. 12-24-11 10:53 AM #62
    PunisherIND
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    Quote Originally Posted by NunyaBidness View Post
    Sonnen-Okami
    Munoz-Okami
    are you specifically referencing the wrestling in those fights, or are you making an mma-math argument? if its the latter, then i would simply counter with sonnen-maia/munoz-maia.
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  28. 12-24-11 02:09 PM #63
    Vaughany
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    Pretty sure he's talking about the wrestling as you were referring to how they match-up wrestling wise. Munoz might of beaten him in college but Munoz has also been taken down by guys like Leben and Ricardo Barros. I have no doubt tht Sonnen can take him down, it's just a matter of whether he can control him like he has other opponents which is unlikely.
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  29. 12-24-11 03:22 PM #64
    NunyaBidness
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    Quote Originally Posted by PunisherIND View Post
    are you specifically referencing the wrestling in those fights, or are you making an mma-math argument? if its the latter, then i would simply counter with sonnen-maia/munoz-maia.
    I'm making an MMA-math argument because I'm stupid.

    Watch those fights because they are the most relevant for handicapping this fight. Sonnen has better MMA wrestling, and the better standup as well. Munoz has a power advantage and that's about it as far as I can see.

    Sonnen-maia/munoz-maia is also relevant.
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  30. 12-24-11 04:00 PM #65
    PunisherIND
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    Quote Originally Posted by NunyaBidness View Post
    I'm making an MMA-math argument because I'm stupid.

    Watch those fights because they are the most relevant for handicapping this fight. Sonnen has better MMA wrestling, and the better standup as well. Munoz has a power advantage and that's about it as far as I can see.

    Sonnen-maia/munoz-maia is also relevant.

    i'll admit i havent re-watched the fights lately. perhaps i should do that. but i dont think anything will change my opinion regarding value on munoz at +200 or better. this is the same number that stann was getting. i'm not saying munoz will win, just that this will be a close fight.
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  31. 12-24-11 04:51 PM #66
    bjpenn85
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    Sonnen is a no brainer in all fights at middle weight except from a rematch with silva. Stann, marquart, Okami, silva for 4.rounds. Sonnen can outpoint munoz on the feet as well. I think munoz can win by KO in the first round, after that, the fight is sonnens.
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  32. 12-27-11 02:15 AM #67
    The HOFF
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    UFC officials today announced that Nik Lentz replaces an injured Paul Sass and faces Evan Dunham, while Eddie Wineland has suffered an injury in training and has been forced to withdraw from the card.

    Wineland's opponent, Johnny Bedford – who was actually a replacement for Demetrious Johnson – now awaits a new foe.
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  33. 12-27-11 11:03 AM #68
    Beelzebubzy
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    Quote Originally Posted by The HOFF View Post
    UFC officials today announced that Nik Lentz replaces an injured Paul Sass and faces Evan Dunham, while Eddie Wineland has suffered an injury in training and has been forced to withdraw from the card.

    Wineland's opponent, Johnny Bedford – who was actually a replacement for Demetrious Johnson – now awaits a new foe.
    perfect fight for Torres to come back
    1) stylistically bad matchup for torres
    2) its in Chicago
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  34. 12-27-11 11:06 AM #69
    Vaughany
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beelzebubzy View Post
    perfect fight for Torres to come back
    1) stylistically bad matchup for torres
    2) its in Chicago
    Are u sayin perfect for Dana to bring him back and get rid? U said perfect fight for Torres but then that it's bad matchup stylistically?!
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  35. 12-27-11 11:43 AM #70
    Beelzebubzy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaughany View Post
    Are u sayin perfect for Dana to bring him back and get rid? U said perfect fight for Torres but then that it's bad matchup stylistically?!
    Its a good fight for the UFC to bring him back because it will be like teaching him a lesson to bring him back. So there is the PRO for the UFC

    The PRO for Torres is that its in Chicago and he could do the UFC a favor by taking a fight on short notice.
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