[Crayzee]

wtf?

talk about over managing

[OLGC_Slayer]

Its a good strategy if you dont have a classic speedster slap hitter at the top of the order, and the pitcher is an above average hitter.

[cobra_king]

It definately seems to be working in Milwaukee where Jason Kendal is hitting like he did 10 years ago. (he's the #9 hitter) The guy who actually will suffer now is the number 7 hitter, but the idea is to turn your number 9 guy into a defacto lead off hitter and give him some quality pitches to hit.

[The HG]

That's pure sabermetrics, someone figured out that in many cases it's better to have a better bat in the 9 slot than in the 8 slot. I forgot who started it, was it Tony Larussa? St Louis?

[OLGC_Slayer]

I dont remember anyone doing it before Larussa but I could be wrong. I am sure someone did it at some point prior.

[curious]

wtf?

talk about over managing

When the pitcher hits 8th the odds of the cleanup hitter hitting after the pitcher are significantly lower then when the pitcher hits 9th. So, you either move the cleanup hitter down in the order or move the pitcher up in the order.

[thegreatdiatchi]

The move makes perfect sense if you are looking to push end of the order momentum right into the top of your order. In many cases it leads to more positive momentum.

[matskralc]

First, sabermetrics has pretty much determined that batting order does not significantly affect run production as long as it's a reasonable order. Managers are, by and large, pretty stupid, but they have managed to nail down lineups pretty efficiently. Any deviation from a "classic" lineup isn't going to be significant.

Second, any "gains" that might be made from moving the pitcher up to 8th (and therefore possible having more "real" hitters batting in front of your best hitter later in the game) are canceled out by the fact that you are giving, over the long-term, extra plate appearances to an offensive non-entity.

[twtb19]

I have always hated this living in St Louis, but this year with Izturis batting behind the pitcher it is truly batting your worst hitter 9th.

An announcer the other day had me rolling when talking about the pitcher batting 8th he said " it is all fun and games until someone walks Wainwright to get to Izturis.