[dizzydude]

Kenny Rogers has pitched 23 scoreless amazing post_season innings. This brings him 4 innings away from tieing the record for scoreless innings in the post-season which has been a record unbeaten since 1905. But what's with this so-called "dirt" that's been spotted on his pitching hand for these 3 amazing post-season starts? Is this foreign substance assisting Rogers in his attempt to beat a 101 year old record? Should something be done at this point or should it just be forgotten? What was the substance and how come it wasn't a bigger concern in last nights game? Remember that in section 8.02 of baseball's rulebook it mentions that any foreign substance found on a pitchers hand shall be immediatly ejected from the game and 10 games following that. Comments please.

[Tchocky]

Pine tar or not. Rogers has been lights out. I don't agree with the rule. Pine tar is used by 60% to 70% of MLB pitchers to get a better grip not to gain an unfair advantage.

[EBone]

My two cents:

The rule is exactly as is stated by dizzydude above. So, in a rigid sense, Rogers should have been tossed out of the game in the NYY series if he had it on him then.

But a couple of things strike me in this saga: 1) If you have ever played baseball when you use pine tar, it is not the easiest stuff to get off. I am sure there is cleaner in the clubhouse for players to wash it off but, in my experience, there is no way he got all of it off of him in a time period of a 1/2 inning. The substance was still there in Innings 2-8, just not near as much was there and probably not enough to have an adverse effect on pitching a baseball.

2) My experience is that pitchers are creatures of habit. They do the same pre-game ritual over and over and over again. I would submit that Rogers has been using pine tar (which is what I think the substance was) for a very, very long time. I think he knows exactly what the effects pine tar has on pitching a baseball. To me, it would seem silly to start using pine tar for the playoffs. You would need some experience in how to handle it and, certainly, you would not begin using it if you had no experience with pine tar in games as big as the ALDS, ALCS and the World Series. If Kenny Rogers is, indeed, a creature of habit, I think he has been using this stuff for much, much longer than the last 3 games.

I think these managers have a "dont ask, dont tell" policy with this sort of stuff. They just want results (insert appropriate "steroid issue" comment here).


E

[bigboydan]

Did you notice who kept pointing out that little "dirt mark" on his hand. Why it was no other than the Cardinals announcer Joe Buck.

[Willie Bee]

Good stuff, EBone.

It sure didn't look like dirt, and dirt only, to me. But if it was pine tar, then I surely don't understand why the umpires didn't toss him, except, of course, that they're not even supposed to check Rogers unless someone from the other dugout asks for it. Umpires aren't supposed to go after cheaters themself directly, just rule on it once someone else brings it to their attention.

And that's exactly what Davey Johnson and the Mets did to Dodgers reliever Jay Howell in the '88 NLCS, ask the umpires to check him out. When the umps found pine tar on Howell, he was ejected and eventually suspended.

Maybe Rogers has accomplished just what he wanted to, that being a shift of the focus on him from the run-in he had with the photographer at The Ballpark That Dubya Built in Texas to just what was that on his left hand in the '06 Series?

[Seattle Slew]

Larusa just said in the press briefing he knew about it before the game started and did nothing?

He could have gotten this guy tossed in the bottom of the first inning. Why didn't he do it?

He's had pine tar on his hand in all 3 starts in the post-season. Not surprised. Rogers looks like a crazy person out there. See him almost lose it in the dugout when Jones almost blew the save?

[bigboydan]

I was listening to an interview with Steve Palarmio earlier today, and the guy that was interviewing he made him look like a complete idiot.

He is drilling him with questions left and right, and this guy thats conducting the interview is an Ex-lawyer

[Bill Dozer]

Maybe there was a dog on the field that day?

[psycho44]

Larusa just said in the press briefing he knew about it before the game started and did nothing?

He could have gotten this guy tossed in the bottom of the first inning. Why didn't he do it?

He's had pine tar on his hand in all 3 starts in the post-season. Not surprised. Rogers looks like a crazy person out there. See him almost lose it in the dugout when Jones almost blew the save?

Tony LaRussa said something to the umpire to the effect that he noticed something strange with which the balls were moving out of Kenny Roger's hand. The umpire response was they wanted to clean this game up so I guess with the credibility of baseball already dealing with steroids, LaRussa didn't want to stain baseball with "cheating."

As a side note, I think they need to check Kenny Roger's urine for substance because this is the quietest stone cold dude you will ever meet. Man he was so emotional and you can say it's play-off but I say he's on some good stuff and I want some of it.

[tacomax]

Pine tar is used by 60% to 70% of MLB pitchers to get a better grip not to gain an unfair advantage.

Of course it's used to gain an unfair advantage - they wouldn't frickin' use it otherwise.

Doesn't matter whether or not 1% of 70% of pitchers use it - it's a banned substance and by using it you're getting an unfair advantage over the other players who play by the rules.

[bigboydan]

Alot of pitchers use sun tan oil too believe it or not.

[Flamers]

I currently work in the minors, and with my knowledge on this subject I would have to say that Kenny Rogers is lying.

But to the extent of the cheating is unknown.

It is known through baseball that using substances is a form of cheating, but many pitchers do it for various reasons. I believe that Rogers was doing it for the grip due to weather conditions, or it could even be that he is injured and has lost grip which could be the reason why he has counted 3-2's high, instead of fastball and shortening his count.


But a pitcher would know that something is on his hand, and he would know better to remove whatever the substance before it gets carried away like it is now.