1. 05-23-12 04:26 PM #1
    antifoil
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    how many wins do you guys think having joe madden is worth?

    like if a team is an 84 or 85 win team, does a manager like madden put the team over 90? how do you cap a manager that is so good.

    he is worth at least a couple of wins.
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  2. 05-23-12 04:31 PM #2
    BuddyBear
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    a couple is right. maybe 2 wins a season max. It's difficult to quantify since all manager decisions are reflected in the stats.

    That being said, he is an elite manager. Top 3 easily.
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  3. 05-23-12 04:48 PM #3
    antifoil
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    i can't get over the stuff that he does where most managers don't have the balls or the knowledge to do.

    like batting carlos pena lead off.
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  4. 05-23-12 05:24 PM #4
    antifoil
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    this is going to be way nerder for this site, but there is a curious thing about the rays over the previous two seasons and i don't know if it is luck or organizational. probably both.

    in 2010, the rays scored 802 runs, but based on the other factors of their metrics from that season the team should have only scored around 700 runs. it appears they got extremely lucky and got a bunch of hits at the right time. so was it luck or good situational managing?

    then last year they ended up with only 707 runs scored but gave up only 614 because the defenses put up a babip of .276 while league average is around .300. not only that but the second best team was at .293. was this luck or managing?

    the past two season the rays have had what appears to be luck from both sides of the equation. are they somehow finding these inefficiencies where they are taking a .500 team and adding 10 wins?
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  5. 05-23-12 06:21 PM #5
    HoulihansTX
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    Quote Originally Posted by antifoil View Post
    i can't get over the stuff that he does where most managers don't have the balls or the knowledge to do.

    like batting carlos pena lead off.
    If anyone else did it, they would be BBQ'ed by stat guys. Bigtime SO guy batting leadoff? Makes no sense, but Maddens reasoning was that he was trying to get more fastballs thrown to Pena. It was a venture into creative risk.

    But remember, talent wins games. Maddon does more than most, but doesnt swing or pitch.
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  6. 05-23-12 06:51 PM #6
    antifoil
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    i read he did it because pena is a pretty high on base guy. he wanted pena to just try to get walks, take pitches, work the count and not worry about getting a hit.

    there was a fangraphs article about it.
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