[combination lock]

Do they all just operate as would a ponzi scheme? Kind of appears that way

[Hankwins]

some books limit big winners and have a risk managment in order to ensure players money is safe.

[John Dough]

[bettilimbroke999]

All books run by tattooed freaks with 5 grand they made sellin fake weed that give a free 1/2 point on every bet including on and off 7 in football and 110% bonuses and dont even bother to limit sharps despite owin 10 guys over a mil are

[paw]

When you do business with Sh-tbirds. Expect Sh-tbird Results.

Plain and Simple.

[Mr. Jones]

some books limit big winners and have a risk managment in order to ensure players money is safe.

A few of these are still there for the American player. Not too many left however.

[Hankwins]

A few of these are still there for the American player. Not too many left however.

who are they in your opinion?

[bettilimbroke999]

If your a regular gambler play at Heritage, Bookmaker or 5dimes....if you think you're a pro then play at dumps like BetIsland and accept that often they're gonna screw you

[JasonDC]

If your a regular gambler play at Heritage, Bookmaker or 5dimes....if you think you're a pro then play at dumps like BetIsland and accept that often they're gonna screw you

Im not playing at any books that take action from Americans anymore, but Legends and Youwager have always paid me fast and without any hassle.

[bettilimbroke999]

Im not playing at any books that take action from Americans anymore, but Legends and Youwager have always paid me fast and without any hassle.

That is your choice...bet with locals if you wish, many do and are happy getting paid in cash instantly with no withdrawal fees...for me online offers better deals like 5dimes half juice and so I prefer it

I would not let a dump year old scambook with an unsustainable business model like BetIslands color your views of long-standing books like Heritage, 5dimes and Bookmaker

[JasonDC]

That is your choice...bet with locals if you wish, many do and are happy getting paid in cash instantly with no withdrawal fees...for me online offers better deals like 5dimes half juice and so I prefer it

I would not let a dump year old scambook with an unsustainable business model like BetIslands color your views of long-standing books like Heritage, 5dimes and Bookmaker

I meant Legends and Youwager in addition to 5dimes, Heritage, and Bookmaker. Im not playing with a local, im playing thru a good friend who lives in the UK..she is putting my bets in thru Bet365. I dont trust any book that takes action from Americans anymore but the 5 books i mentioned are probably the safest choices.

[bettilimbroke999]

I understand...there is always the chance a US facing book can pack up with your money but huge books that have been around paying everytime for a decade or more are certainly a little safer than tattoopunk's book.

If you have a good friend you trust in a foreign country then by all means do that

[Jonah]

What comes to mind is that if these "sharps" can take down a book, they must know a heck of a lot. Books have to limit those in the know so they can win off most of you. Good luck with all your wagers, Guys.

[touchback]

All books run by tattooed freaks with 5 grand they made sellin fake weed that give a free 1/2 point on every bet including on and off 7 in football and 110% bonuses and dont even bother to limit sharps despite owin 10 guys over a mil are

right... and answering first question, no... not all are ponzi schemes.

[MBENZ]

All books run by tattooed freaks with 5 grand they made sellin fake weed that give a free 1/2 point on every bet including on and off 7 in football and 110% bonuses and dont even bother to limit sharps despite owin 10 guys over a mil are

LOL.I wonder how many would have deposited if that idiots picture would have been posted earlier?No doubt that fukk has worn a DOC orange jumpsuit and was picking up trash next to the road at least once.

[Miz]

What comes to mind is that if these "sharps" can take down a book, they must know a heck of a lot. Books have to limit those in the know so they can win off most of you. Good luck with all your wagers, Guys.

Betislands was giving away +EV with the free half point, failing to limit players, and allowing steam plays in without limiting players. Gross mismanagement like that can make anyone look sharp... as well as make a book hemorrhage money.

[bettilimbroke999]

[touchback]

[bettilimbroke999]

This is a successful businessman you could trust with 1.5 million....



This guy on the other hand is riskier

[Bill Dozer]

What comes to mind is that if these "sharps" can take down a book, they must know a heck of a lot. Books have to limit those in the know so they can win off most of you. Good luck with all your wagers, Guys.

In the past 15 years there have been a few big failures. Unclick hide inactive to see some of the old stories. Aces Gold and WSEX were two of the biggest volume wise. The majority of books who failed or decided to cut their losses, were merged with another book or bailed out. This was much earlier when there were hundreds of different operations, not just websites. Over that time, two A books have stiffed players, WSEX and Cascade. Other bookmakers have said that WSEX could have easily been sold but for some reason they didn't unload it in time.

There were a few more B books over the years. In many of these there are warnings signs and players paying attention had the ability to slip out before those who weren't. Business model is a major factor. If it was done right in BI, there would have been opportunities to home 3/4 of the players as the other 1/4 wouldn't have been there. On the flipside, there are many well backed books that gave away a lot early but most believe their owners are solid and believe they are content to lose money in the beginning to build the brand. They are far from a ponzi scheme. Books like Mansion and Matchbook with owners worth 8 or 9 figures may mean a player worries less if the promos are big during a bad season.

[sneak-a-peak]

Bill

What are the chances of betislands players finding refuge?

Are there books willing to help or no?

[Bill Dozer]

Chances are slim. As people have been able to gather, the debt is very top heavy. If even a lower tiered book wanted to step forward and give everyone up to $1000, it would probably make half of the victims whole.

These are the kinds of things that in years past would have been tossed around with newer books, even years later, who are looking to spend and get their name out. We'll keep our ears open as always but we don't expect to hear about activity.

[evo34]

In the past 15 years there have been a few big failures. Unclick hide inactive to see some of the old stories. Aces Gold and WSEX were two of the biggest volume wise. The majority of books who failed or decided to cut their losses, were merged with another book or bailed out. This was much earlier when there were hundreds of different operations, not just websites. Over that time, two A books have stiffed players, WSEX and Cascade. Other bookmakers have said that WSEX could have easily been sold but for some reason they didn't unload it in time.

There were a few more B books over the years. In many of these there are warnings signs and players paying attention had the ability to slip out before those who weren't. Business model is a major factor. If it was done right in BI, there would have been opportunities to home 3/4 of the players as the other 1/4 wouldn't have been there. On the flipside, there are many well backed books that gave away a lot early but most believe their owners are solid and believe they are content to lose money in the beginning to build the brand. They are far from a ponzi scheme. Books like Mansion and Matchbook with owners worth 8 or 9 figures may mean a player worries less if the promos are big during a bad season.

By most definitions, a scheme is any trading/gambling business that uses client funds to run the business, and/or steals them for personal use. Are there any books that keep player funds separate and protected? Genuine question. I'd guess the answer is no, but would be interested in hearing if this wasn't the case.

[Bill Dozer]

By most definitions, a scheme is any trading/gambling business that uses client funds to run the business, and/or steals them for personal use. Are there any books that keep player funds separate and protected? Genuine question. I'd guess the answer is no, but would be interested in hearing if this wasn't the case.

Even banks can close with your money, and it's happened. If they are FDIC insured, its up to only 100k(?). A lot of books from Bet365 to Caribbean books have assets to draw from during tough times but there aren't third party accounts for most. Maybe Betfair or Ladbrokes lists their reserves separately in their shareholder reporting.

But BI wasn't a ponzi by definition either. There supposedly had been payouts to a handful of players from the same backer that exceeded the total amount of total BI debt... Just a mess.

[bettilimbroke999]

Even banks can close with your money, and it's happened. If they are FDIC insured, its up to only 100k(?). A lot of books from Bet365 to Caribbean books have assets to draw from during tough times but there aren't third party accounts for most. Maybe Betfair or Ladbrokes lists their reserves separately in their shareholder reporting.

But BI wasn't a ponzi by definition either. There supposedly had been payouts to a handful of players from the same backer that exceeded the total amount of total BI debt... Just a mess.

Ponzi schemes have payouts for a time...the first customers often make large profits in a ponzi scheme...unfortunately these "profits" are just new deposits being used to cover withdrawals. If they started stiffing from the word go it wouldnt be a very attractive scheme and they wouldnt have any new depositors

[rangerz2478]

In the past 15 years there have been a few big failures. Unclick hide inactive to see some of the old stories. Aces Gold and WSEX were two of the biggest volume wise. The majority of books who failed or decided to cut their losses, were merged with another book or bailed out. This was much earlier when there were hundreds of different operations, not just websites. Over that time, two A books have stiffed players, WSEX and Cascade. Other bookmakers have said that WSEX could have easily been sold but for some reason they didn't unload it in time.

There were a few more B books over the years. In many of these there are warnings signs and players paying attention had the ability to slip out before those who weren't. Business model is a major factor. If it was done right in BI, there would have been opportunities to home 3/4 of the players as the other 1/4 wouldn't have been there. On the flipside, there are many well backed books that gave away a lot early but most believe their owners are solid and believe they are content to lose money in the beginning to build the brand. They are far from a ponzi scheme. Books like Mansion and Matchbook with owners worth 8 or 9 figures may mean a player worries less if the promos are big during a bad season.

Bill, you are one of the more honest guys on here so I'd appreciate if you could answer two questions for me...

1.) Did betislands show any of these "warning signs" you were talking about?

2.) As honest as you can POSSIBLY be, is there reason to worry about funds at betonline? I could be wrong, but there are many things that worry me. I hope I'm wrong about that. As someone who has more than he would like as this book, I'd really like to hear your feedback.

Thanks Bill.

[combination lock]

how are supposed to know what they look like

[bettilimbroke999]

how are supposed to know what they look like

Many pictures of BI Jon/SSLP whatever his madeup name is have been posted on this site....how do you think I know what he looks like?

[combination lock]

Ya but wasn't that after the fact? I'm saying how is anyone supposed to know what any owners look like?

[Bill Dozer]

Ponzi schemes have payouts for a time...the first customers often make large profits in a ponzi scheme...unfortunately these "profits" are just new deposits being used to cover withdrawals. If they started stiffing from the word go it wouldnt be a very attractive scheme and they wouldnt have any new depositors

All true but my point was that they didn't need player deposits to run for two years. Bailing on everyone is a stiff job just the same but the operation had paid its customers and had a reputation for doing so. Note on that, we were told a lot of the top balance holders grew that in the recent months taking advantage of exotics odds that were +ev for the players who knew what they were doing. From what we gathered balance total might have grown by double in 3 mos.

[Bill Dozer]

Bill, you are one of the more honest guys on here so I'd appreciate if you could answer two questions for me...

1.) Did betislands show any of these "warning signs" you were talking about?

2.) As honest as you can POSSIBLY be, is there reason to worry about funds at betonline? I could be wrong, but there are many things that worry me. I hope I'm wrong about that. As someone who has more than he would like as this book, I'd really like to hear your feedback.

Thanks Bill.

1) BI's model was ever changing as often is the case in first or second year businesses. They did things that worked that they could have had patience and went slow with but did other things to make a splash. But when there were bad months with favorites winning a lot, you didn't see delays in payouts as they waited for money to come in. We observed the same thing as you where everything was good until it wasn't. IMO, their performance didn't cause them to close. However, if they were profitable by that time it would have made bailouts likely or they would have been absorbed by a place with a good reputation.

2) I can tell you that I would play there, there are no payout complaints on the board or in the mailbox, and they have never stiffed anyone. But as always said, we list the feedback and information known and players should make their own decision...from A+ books in UK to C books offering a juicy bonus. We don't tell anyone how they should feel. If you are uncomfortable, you should not play there. People are more uneasy the more they feel disconnected with their money. BOL's communication during some of the procedures is not as good as other systems which means players reach out to each other on forums etc.

[raydog]

Ya but wasn't that after the fact? I'm saying how is anyone supposed to know what any owners look like?

jon "sslp" was an active poster here well before bi was even started...he worked at other books and some posters vacationed there and posted many pictures with him ... if you are a newer member of sbr, you wouldnt know what he looks like...if you have been a member for longer than 2 years, great chance you knew exactly who he was and what he looked like...

there are some owners that have been around for a long time and their face is known...other owners are a mystery to most and not many people know who owns what, much less what they look like...

Bill, can you squash the conspiracy theories that SBR owns a good part of BOL?

[combination lock]

All true but my point was that they didn't need player deposits to run for two years. Bailing on everyone is a stiff job just the same but the operation had paid its customers and had a reputation for doing so. Note on that, we were told a lot of the top balance holders grew that in the recent months taking advantage of exotics odds that were +ev for the players who knew what they were doing. From what we gathered balance total might have grown by double in 3 mos.

So basically as soon as any book decides they've had enough fun with players they can just say sorry guys but our backer pulled out so you're all SOL?

[Bill Dozer]

A book that is going to close could use any excuse. It doesn't really matter. "Backer pulling out" = deciding not to pay or not having the ability to pay for whatever reason. It doesn't happen often but it its been twice in 7 years.

[SportsMushroom]

Bill, you are one of the more honest guys on here

good one guy, I assume you are kidding

guy is a crook, sides with the sponsor book on any legitimate complaint by a member, fired justin7 for siding with the players and even took away his pm rights so that he couldnt speak up about what is really going on

been locking and deleting threads that reveal negative sides of sponsor books

lets not forget about the fact that they were vouching and covering for betislands to the very end, even though they knew what was going on at least a month before the closing

guy is first class slime ball