[BiTeMe UsAdOj]

In last week's tourney, antfather initiated the form of collusion known in poker as "soft play". Anyone that knows anything about poker knows this is prohibited in tournaments -- as it's blatantly unfair to all the other players in tourney. Try soft playing at a legit poker site (like Pokerstars) in a tournament and see what happens to you.

antfather and autodonk were filling up the chat box with reminiscences of various Houston poker rooms they've enjoyed (I'll spare you that chat)... when antfather initiated the first of several soft play hands -- minimum 4 hands that were obviously discernable -- where he played the hand much differently against autodonk simply b/c they were "buddies" (and he didn't want to take chips from him). IOW, absent any poker strategy/relevance whatsoever. THAT is a text book definition of "soft play"and obviously affects all the other players in tourney, which is obviously why it's prohibited.

antfather cops to it immediately right out the gate (unaltered chat text):

theantfather: didnt want to raise you small for value
AutoDonk: u probably couldve got more
theantfather: anyone else i woulda.lol
AutoDonk: i appreciate it
theantfather: yw

I'll post the most egregious and damning (evidence) of the various soft play hands between ant and donk (and the immediate subsequent damning chat). This 100% confirms the soft play that was going on previously... if the above chat hadn't already convinced you. READ THIS HH CAREFULLY, as it's the exact sort of HH evidence that a Pokerstars site (with people there that actually know poker) uses to 100% conclude soft play is definitely occurring. Autodonk should have been crippled chip-wise in this hand, and it's known, as demonstrated by the chat immediately afterwards:

***** Hand history (v1.2) *****
Hand ID 4972044
$0 + $6 Texas Hold'em (No Limit) - 23:51:16 03/03/2015 ET
Table 'Table 60513', 10 seats max, Real money
Seat 8 is the button. Small Blind $150, Big Blind $300
Note: seat IDs range from 1 to 10
Seat 1 (playing) : jack_matz, amount $2140, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 2 (playing) : playersonly69, amount $3098, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 3 (playing) : jdwars, amount $2180, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 4 (playing) : BiTeMeUsAdOj, amount $3290, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 5 (playing) : zam77, amount $1025, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 6 (playing) : konck, amount $1590, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 7 (playing) : AutoDonk, amount $4085, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 8 (playing) : theantfather, amount $2895, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 9 (playing) : stevek173, amount $1309, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 10 (playing) : bigdaddyjames, amount $1590, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
stevek173: Small Blind ($150)
bigdaddyjames: Big Blind ($300)
** Dealing Down Cards **
Dealt to BiTeMeUsAdOj: [2d, 9h]
jack_matz: Fold
playersonly69: Fold
jdwars: Fold
BiTeMeUsAdOj: Fold [pre] ($0)
zam77: Fold
konck: Raise ($1565)
AutoDonk: Call ($1565)
theantfather: Call ($1565)
stevek173: Fold
bigdaddyjames: Fold
** Dealing Flop **
Community cards: [Ks, Ac, 2s]
AutoDonk: Check ($0)
theantfather: Check ($0)
** Dealing Turn **
Community cards: [3h]
AutoDonk: Check ($0)
theantfather: Check ($0)
** Dealing River **
Community cards: [8s]
AutoDonk: Check ($0)
theantfather: Check ($0)
** End Round **
** Evaluate **
AutoDonk: Show Cards ($0)
theantfather: Show Cards ($0)
konck: Muck ($0)
** Showdown **
Main pot $5395, Rake $0
Summary konck: bet $1565, won $0, net $-1565
Summary AutoDonk: bet $1565, won $0, net $-1565, HoleCards [Ah, Qs]
Summary theantfather: bet $1565, won $5395, net $3830, HoleCards [Kh, Kc], HiHand [three of a kind, kings] [Ks, Kh, Kc, Ac, 8s], won $5395 from main pot

chat:
AutoDonk: you going to harrah's in early May?
theantfather: lol/really
AutoDonk: had a bad feeling bout that fn k
theantfather: yeah..thats why i said really..you snapped called him..but I had KK
theantfather: but i wasnt going to push you out of tourney

(all verifiable by SBR, as is previous soft play and chat)

antfather now accesses what might occur by soft playing and purposely letting donk off the hook w/ this follow-up comment:
theantfather: you might bust my ass now on final table..lol

In fact, it was ant that knocked donk out of the tourney with 2 rag cards, but that wasn't his intention; he raised all in to knock POS69 out of the hand so he could isolate and save donk's tourney life. THAT was his intention (as chat clearly reveals). SBR's RNG just didn't cooperate, is all. But, the results don't even matter... it's the INTENT that matters. Anyone that knows poker knows this.

chat: theantfather: protectuion
theantfather: dam
theantfather: \sorry bro
theantfather: gg
AutoDonk: typical sbr

Soft play/collusion 100%. Proven and verifiable. Hey, listen... we all have friends on here: I heart Tripper and Doggy and Gum and Tat and many others BUT, make no mistake, when we're playing against each other in a tourney, I'm gonna do everything in my poker power to try and take every last chip they have. As they do to me. As it should be. FAIR PLAY for everyone, always. (And no reraising someone else out of pot in sole attempt/intention to protect your bud's tourney life, either)

Fair play did not occur for everybody in that tourney, everyone in that tourney was cheated -- soft play collusion occurred. Hey, ant has pretty much confirmed his character previously (as we all know) but what's really disappointing is that while donk did not initiate the soft play collusion (and I never accused him as such), he knew early on in tourney from early hands that it was occurring and he *tacitly* allowed it to continue... no doubt b/c it was benefiting him. Anyone not a poker rube knew early on ant was soft playing donk... and donk is clearly not a poker rube.

If me, I would've early on said: "Hey bud, we need to be fair to everyone here in tourney so please play your cards accordingly... thanks for understanding." Instead... there was " i appreciate it".

In point of fact, I have on a few occasions had to tell not-as-experienced poker playing friends before a casino tourney: "Now listen, we're buds and all but it's against the rules to play against me differently than any other player. Play your cards... if you'd bet or raise anyone else, do it to me. Cuz I'm gonna treat you like any other player." If a "bud" started obviously soft playing me in a tourney, 100% I'd have said something to shut it down.

100% soft play occurred. PROVEN (HH and chat)

[bobbywaves]

Nice soft play observation & explanation, not surprising Donkey benefitted.

Is there any more evidence on POS, besides the scheme to elude rake to meet rollover? Seems like antfather is guilty of both soft play & rake eluding, while POS only rake eluding. Yet the hammer fell solely on POS & not antfather, what am I missing here?

[Auto Donk]

lol........... u stupid fck......... I already mentioned this; thought it was strange that AF took a shine to me that trny.... have never met the guy, tho now know he's from Houston and plays at a room I sometimes play at; and he could confirm my recent $2,200.00 cash there..... you can see from your "evidence" I never asked for protection, and the fact that someone bets one of the biggest donks (po 69) out of a hand and mentions that doing so protected me is hardly collusion.......

if that's all your stupidass has (you who is the biggest f'n insider cheat on the site), then u have nothing......... and I already pointed this bullshit out, sherlock

[Auto Donk]

benefitted???? only f'n two idiots like wussywaves and bitemeSfCm could assert that I benefited by getting knocked out of a trny.......

stupid stpid fck peas in a pod

and by the way, wussyboywaves, i've doubled up your lifetime winnings on this site in a mere three days in vegas............

you two: go suck each others kahks

[Auto Donk]

ps... in the hand that u say i should have been crippled.... maybe a sack of shit player like yourself falls into that trap b/c you're such a bad player, biteme, and cant win shit if your not superusing, ie, cheating, but I knew when he came in the hand he had to be extremely strong, and i wasn't shippin shit after that k hit the bd........ figure it out you stpid fck.....

[bobbywaves]

Read the chat you ignorant fukk, you clearly benefitted.

This Donkey is supposedly a "lawyer" & supposedly "wins $ in Vegas," yet he needs to welch on a 5k points bet.

Fukk you, looking forward to meeting you at next bash asswipe.

[BiTeMe UsAdOj]

Donk just scrambling to cover his ass; I explained everything succinctly and correctly.

Never claimed you initiated (as I clearly stated in post), BUT, 100% you knew *exactly* what antfather was doing the whole tourney. (from *very early on*)

You're no poker rube and everyone will see through your CYA hysterical blabber. (your own chat "i appreciate it" reveals you)

You lied previously, btw, and you're trying to obfuscate here now (you really are a lawyer!): you tried to do a preemptive post about the "protection" felting but you said it was a one time event. That's blatantly UNTRUE, as succinctly explained above, with a HH you conveniently never mentioned in that post. Plus the earlier hand(s). The hand you got felted on was just one of minimum 4 easily discernable soft play hands. FACT. The smart ones will read my post and know exactly what transpired here and exactly what and how I'm saying it... regardless of your guaranteed continued hysterical blabber.

You offer nothing but lame, tired bullshit hysterics ( "biteme is an insider cheat!")... meanwhile, I present concrete proof.

GAME.SET.MATCH

Having cleared everything up and having said all that, I'll also say antfather is the only one that absolutely should be banned for soft playing (as he initiated). SBR should just sternly warn you that tacit acceptance of soft playing by you will no longer be allowed.

Again, the smart folk round here (and there are plenty) will understand everything I'm saying perfectly (and how I'm saying it) so I'm 100% confident the point will be seen regardless of all your continued asinine hysterical rantings.

[SharpAngles]

Donker,

I can def understand being defensive after being called out and agree with you its not fair to say you should have been crippled based off of that posted hand. The deadbeat from Houston is a tight mfer when it comes to getting in pots and after that action not many players with half a brain are getting it in there.

Ive got to say being a lawyer you should've known to keep your mouth shut instead of "I appreciate it". I get it, someone has a hardon for you and wants to go easy, but it's either say something to stop it or keep your trap shut IMO. Would like to think most here respect the game enough to say stop it but I get the other thinking too. This format is a bitch and every edge helps. I like you bud but that chat is a bad look. I will say it speaks volumes that you at least come to defend yourself unlike another Texas player who has been surprisingly quiet. I'd tell bite to gf himself if he tried calling me out for something I wasn't guilty of.

Main point is AntFather is a PROVEN x2 scumbag who is interested in ripping off SBR and the poker players here. I hope the right thing is done.

[BiTeMe UsAdOj]

not many players with half a brain are getting it in there.

Forget getting it in... is he gonna call a value bet on riv?
We all know that answer... as did ant... which is why he didn't bet... cuz he didn't want to take any more of donk's chips.

They already had discussed ant's ah, er, 'benevolence' in previous chat where donk says "i appreciate it".

I like you bud but that chat is a bad look.

Main point is AntFather is a PROVEN x2 scumbag who is interested in ripping off SBR and the poker players here. I hope the right thing is done.

...

[SharpAngles]

Bite the pot is massive. What bet doesnt put Donk in? I guess 300 min bet but come on. Most players arent calling a bet there with AQ and I doubt donkey goes bust on this hand.

I do agree with you that IP Ban for the thehoustonant and some kind of discipline for Donk, but I wouldn't go as far as disqualifying from the series.

[BiTeMe UsAdOj]

I do agree with you that IP Ban for the thehoustonant and some kind of discipline for Donk, but I wouldn't go as far as disqualifying from the series.

C'mon, man... that's exactly what I said.

A ban for antfather and a stern warning to donk from SBR that he can't tacitly involve himself in obvious soft playing (his own words damn him in previous soft play hand -- "i appreciate it"... donk knows poker... he knew exactly what AF was doing... it's why he said "i appreciate it".

We obv disagree on a coupla things in that posted hand, BUT, what is beyond a shadow of a doubt is antfather's 100% soft playing of donk... which obv cheats all others in the tourney.

(And as an addendum: one can come about very easily with a number of speculating motives as to WHY he was soft playing...)

[daneblazer]

kind of a slippery slope here. I don't think you can punish AD for this one hand or tournament. "I appreciate it"...not sure what else you expect him to say on the fly.

The KK v AQ hand itself is nothing, especially considering how many hamburgers have posted on this forum advocating checking down no matter what.

A little more damning against antfather than AD since AF already has a strike against him. ...we get some more hands w/ AD doing this then I think you have a case.

[BiTeMe UsAdOj]

The KK v AQ hand itself is nothing, especially considering how many hamburgers have posted on this forum advocating checking down no matter what.

But neither ant or donk are poker hamburgers... are they?
So I really don't get what you're saying here; CONTEXT of actual situation (previous conversation between both alluding to previously soft played hand -- admitted by antfather -- must obviously be taken into account).

Provide context to this hand and easy to see ant doing a number of different things than he did (preflop on).

And "i appreciate it" after someone admits to soft playing you (unequivocal confession by ant) pretty much speaks for itself.

Is there any more evidence on POS, besides the scheme to elude rake to meet rollover? Seems like antfather is guilty of both soft play & rake eluding, while POS only rake eluding. Yet the hammer fell solely on POS & not antfather, what am I missing here?

Firstly, Occam's Razor: SBR cares far more when someone is cheating THEM as opposed to someone cheating other forum members.

The fact that POS was cheating them, combined w/ all his other recent bs poker squirrelliness (multiple tourney entries last series, etc)made his banning kinda a no-brainer.

Now... let's see SBR do the right thing here and protect MEMBERS against this kind of colluding soft playing.

(antfather should be banned)

[bobbywaves]

Firstly, Occam's Razor: SBR cares far more when someone is cheating THEM as opposed to someone cheating other forum members.

The fact that POS was cheating them, combined w/ all his other recent bs poker squirrelliness (multiple tourney entries last series, etc)made his banning kinda a no-brainer.

Now... let's see SBR do the right thing here and protect MEMBERS against this kind of colluding soft playing.

(antfather should be banned)

Yeah makes sense now, cheating SBR rake would be more frowned upon...Thanks for clarifying.

[Optional]

The fact he was discussing it in chat suggests he didn't realize how wrong it is.

[mpaschal34]

I've seen these kind of chat things happen several times in the past. Can't say recently because I haven't been in the top 5 that often. I just remember people offering to tank tourneys, if the other would toss them some extra points their way. I won't call out the names (as for one I don't remember them all). But I've seen it happen. To enforce this correctly, I'd say there would need to be a set of rules published by SBR (which there may be, but I'm not aware of them) and also have the tables monitored. Which until Sam came along, I don't think had been done since I came on board a couple of years ago. This can't be a part time thing....either all get punished or none should be punished.

[bobbywaves]

The fact he was discussing it in chat suggests he didn't realize how wrong it is.

That very well may be true. You're not suggesting his ignorance is a valid excuse, when common sense is demonstrated by everyone else?

[Optional]

That very well may be true. You're not suggesting his ignorance is a valid excuse, when common sense is demonstrated by everyone else?

Bite pointed out that he needed to seriously warn friends not to do it in live tourneys for cash, showing it's a normal ignorance issue. And I would lean toward a warning rather than a ban for ignorance this time if it were up to me.

If it was a cash site, or we had a set of published rules I might feel differently but I can still recall soft playing people I liked when I started playing here not thinking about it at all until someone said 'hey, thanks but don't do that'.

[pavyracer]

It always amazes me what the scum of the earth would do for poker points. Playing soft is the worst thing a poker player can do in a tourney. I always play hard and win like a champion.

[USCPHILLYGUY]

What kills me is how donker is always gloating about this & that & is such a great live game player yet he still has time for points tourneys? Then takes the shit so serious? I wish I could find the time to play more.

[SharpAngles]

Bite pointed out that he needed to seriously warn friends not to do it in live tourneys for cash, showing it's a normal ignorance issue. And I would lean toward a warning rather than a ban for ignorance this time if it were up to me.

fair enough. Let's warn anthole for this "infraction" because of miss massive ignorance. In fact, the most ignorance of poker rules and etiquette I've ever seen from someone with "multiple WSOP cashes".

Now that he's been warned for that let's look at his theft from SBR in the form of rollover scamming with POs69. This shouldn't be like baseball with 3 strikes IMO. Clear this guy is a pos angle shooter so why give one more chance to scam before giving the heave go?

[BiTeMe UsAdOj]

Anyone that thinks ant or donk don't know *exactly* what soft playing is (both tournament standouts and all, just ask them... they'll both tell ya how good they are)... well, please PM me, cuz I got a lil sumpthin sumpthin I can sell ya that's a real bargain.

I'll give it to ya real cheap cuz I like you guys!

[mp5070]

SBR must get rid of AutoDonk and theantfather...the only fair thing to do

[mpaschal34]

Since we are discussing etiquette and rules....shouldn't flipping be outlawed? It's taking advantage of the system to prevent the rake eating away at your stack.

Just wondering???

[GUMMO77]

Flipping isn't allowed as far as I know.

[mpaschal34]

Flipping isn't allowed as far as I know.

If if it isn't, then bobbywaves should be suspended immediately.

[Auto Donk]

cover my ass? biteme fck off..........

if someone at a table takes a shine to me and plays "soft" against me for their own reasons, whatever they may be, that doesn't implicate me at all you dumb fck

there was no plan or scheme, i wasn't complicit... so go fck yourself

all the communication was on the table chat for all to see.... i didn't ask for help, sure as hell didn't receive any, so fck off and hope I don't come across your snivelling little whiny ass, as i just might beat the shit out of you for the hell of it

[Triple_D_Bet]

Nicely done biter as always However...

kind of a slippery slope here. I don't think you can punish AD for this one hand or tournament. "I appreciate it"...not sure what else you expect him to say on the fly.

The KK v AQ hand itself is nothing, especially considering how many hamburgers have posted on this forum advocating checking down no matter what.

A little more damning against antfather than AD since AF already has a strike against him. ...we get some more hands w/ AD doing this then I think you have a case.

This. I don't argue with the case to ban ant; rollover scamming, point stiffing, wants to be treated as an all-around douche, give him the boot. For donk, I'm with dane here; if someone took it easy on me or said they did, I'd probably not take it seriously first couple times. The KK vs AQ one is blatant soft play for sure from ant's side, but while I'd probably bet that flop with AQ on turn if not flop, donk's not the first I've seen who would just check it down. Also not the first person on SBR to present conflicting evidence for how well they play and how well they claim they play in any given spot, myself included

Ban the obvious douche, give donker a warning at most.

[GUMMO77]

If if it isn't, then bobbywaves should be suspended immediately.

I'm not 100% sure. There was a big thread about filliping awhile back and I don't think SBR was clear on the issue.

[Triple_D_Bet]

cover my ass? biteme fck off..........

if someone at a table takes a shine to me and plays "soft" against me for their own reasons, whatever they may be, that doesn't implicate me at all you dumb fck

there was no plan or scheme, i wasn't complicit... so go fck yourself

all the communication was on the table chat for all to see.... i didn't ask for help, sure as hell didn't receive any, so fck off and hope I don't come across your snivelling little whiny ass, as i just might beat the shit out of you for the hell of it

You might not have asked for any help, but you sure benefited from it. Doesn't mean you were colluding with the dumbass, but have to admit it helped out out considerably whether you wanted it to or not.

Threats aren't warranted, just admit you benefited from it unintentionally, don't accept any more from the douche til hes banned and move on

[Triple_D_Bet]

I'm not 100% sure. There was a big thread about filliping awhile back and I don't think SBR was clear on the issue.

Don't think SBR ever said flipping was banned, or if they did, enforcing it is on the list right after fixing hand-for-hand at 15

[bobbywaves]

SBR must get rid of AutoDonk and theantfather...the only fair thing to do

Agree...SBR should also permanently ban loan stiffs & flip cheaters like yourself & POS69.

[GUMMO77]

Don't think SBR ever said flipping was banned, or if they did, enforcing it is on the list right after fixing hand-for-hand at 15

Exactly my point.

A whole thread about it and nothing was resolved.

RSH!

[BiTeMe UsAdOj]

Flipping isn't allowed as far as I know.

It's been allowed... I don't do it... but quite a few here do.

Oh, and Opti: the reason ant so freely copped to soft playing donk so early in the tourney is b/c he has so little regard for SBR poker. He believes he's rather bigtime, and is only gracing us w/ his presence cuz there's a WSOP seat on the line. He's well aware and would never think to talk so freely about soft playing in what he considered a "real poker environment" (cuz he's well aware of what the consequences would be). Frankly, he knows there's a lot about poker that a site like Pokerstars knows that SBR doesn't.

[Auto Donk]

lol.... stpid fck waves.... only way you can win our challenge would be such inane activity.........

ps, while you dumb c*nts (biteme, wussywaves, and this fahg mp5070) were whining and crying like a bunch of school boy bitches, I was taking $1,150 off locals and a few tourists here in 3 1/2 hours of $2-5 nlhe at The Venetian..........

stick your tampons up your asses, you whiny little fcks

pss.... i'll check back in you pussies tomorrow........... bout to go have a bottle of my wife's fav champagne and get ready for an 8 pm half hour copter ride around vegas..... I may post the vids for you pussies, as it's probably as close to vegas as a couple fahgs like biteme and waves will ever get

adios, fuktards..... keep on cryin'!!
WWWWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!! !!