[DudleyDawson]

ttwarrior is most definitely a paid poster.

[milwaukee mike]

try this at a casino then and see what happens to you if you think its legit.

if he didnt open his mouth he could have plead ignorance at least.

and if you didn't open your mouth and say it was collusion, you could've plead ignorance

not sure where i said it was "legit", i said it wasn't collusion

[milwaukee mike]

what do you think would happen in a casino? someone would get their legs broken for folding to a raise and saying they were trying to cost tt $7 by giving him a worse chance of cashing?


call every casino you can and ask them what the punishment would be for folding to a raise in order to knock someone else out of a tournament.
by knocking tt out of the tournament, he is moving up another place himself as well...

[King Mayan]

TT, i got your back homeboy..

Keep up the good fight..

[milwaukee mike]

as a side note, in more than a few tournaments i have seen OUTRIGHT EXPLICIT COLLUSION and nothing is done about it.

example:
player a, b, and c are in a pot with player c all in preflop.
player a says to b "let's just check it down" and player b says "ok".

so if casinos allow undeniable collusion there is no way in heck anyone would be punished for what po did.

[thetrinity]

what do you think would happen in a casino? someone would get their legs broken for folding to a raise and saying they were trying to cost tt $7 by giving him a worse chance of cashing?


call every casino you can and ask them what the punishment would be for folding to a raise in order to knock someone else out of a tournament.
by knocking tt out of the tournament, he is moving up another place himself as well...

of course it varies by casino the penalty. hes INTENTIONALLY KNOWINGLY helping another player aka collusion. him screwing ttwarrior doesnt matter persay, its the fact that hes dumping chips to a short stack which makes it collusion. a guy got banned for a whole month in a casino i frequent for doing this. similar situation close to the money he raised fold most of his chips blind vs blind against a guy who he showed up with. every other player who was still in the tournament was affected by this.

you are definitely looking at the situation backwards. thats why i said playersonly could plead ignorance if he didnt open his mouth. novice players fold hands when they are pot committed all the time.

[thetrinity]

as a side note, in more than a few tournaments i have seen OUTRIGHT EXPLICIT COLLUSION and nothing is done about it.

example:
player a, b, and c are in a pot with player c all in preflop.
player a says to b "let's just check it down" and player b says "ok".

so if casinos allow undeniable collusion there is no way in heck anyone would be punished for what po did.

that should be a penalty what you just described, its incompetent floor persons more then likely.

[FuzzyDunlop]

what do you think would happen in a casino? someone would get their legs broken for folding to a raise and saying they were trying to cost tt $7 by giving him a worse chance of cashing?


call every casino you can and ask them what the punishment would be for folding to a raise in order to knock someone else out of a tournament.
by knocking tt out of the tournament, he is moving up another place himself as well...

The argument is moot in a tournament structure like this. The prizes for the finals of this SBR series are much more valuable in the finals. It would be like the WSOP offering $100,000,000 for player of the year. If two people were still around late in a preliminary tournament with ramifications for seeding in the finals you can be guaranteed that there would be soft play, unethical play etc in that preliminary tournament.

I'm not weighing in on the specifics of the hand in question, just pointing out that your above logic is incorrect.

[milwaukee mike]

of course it varies by casino the penalty. hes INTENTIONALLY KNOWINGLY helping another player aka collusion. him screwing ttwarrior doesnt matter persay, its the fact that hes dumping chips to a short stack which makes it collusion. a guy got banned for a whole month in a casino i frequent for doing this. similar situation close to the money he raised fold most of his chips blind vs blind against a guy who he showed up with. every other player who was still in the tournament was affected by this.

you are definitely looking at the situation backwards. thats why i said playersonly could plead ignorance if he didnt open his mouth. novice players fold hands when they are pot committed all the time.

good points but he showed up with the other guy so they had an agreement, he was intentionally helping a friend. big difference between intentionally helping a friend and intentionally hurting an enemy.

[thetrinity]

good points but he showed up with the other guy so they had an agreement, he was intentionally helping a friend. big difference between intentionally helping a friend and intentionally hurting an enemy.

i agree hes intentionally hurting an enemy, hes also hurting other players in the process, not just tt. we know how much of shovefests they are on these dailys, theres no guarantee the guy he dumped the chips to isnt gona come back and bust somebody else, when he could have easily been eliminated. its definitely a bit of a grey area, but people have been penalized for far less, the dollar amount of the tournament is immaterial IMO.

of course the ultimate karma would have been the shortstack benificiary busting playersonly eventually, the worst part is the clown doesnt know hes hurting himself by this doing this move as well.

my point about the guys from the casino was that it was an obvoius chip dump, this also has to be considered one since playersonly admitted it via chat.

[thetrinity]

this whole thread can be exhibit A of why online poker rooms dont allow chat when someone is all in.

[shari91]

This whole thread is one big LOL. I'm not sure what's the most funny but Hawley's definitely cracking me up.

what do you think would happen in a casino? someone would get their legs broken for folding to a raise and saying they were trying to cost tt $7 by giving him a worse chance of cashing?


call every casino you can and ask them what the punishment would be for folding to a raise in order to knock someone else out of a tournament.

I was thinking about this. I've flat out heard people say this at Crown. Things like "you're a f'n c... I'd rather him get in than you" and then fold their hands. Of course we don't know what they're holding so for all we know they had rags anyway and were just trying to buy the pot from the short stack but realised they were beat so they decided to talk smack. They don't get punished. WTF for??? Being mean?

Maybe I should call them, ask them and record it. They host the Aussie Millions every year so surely they'd be considered a decent opinion, no?

[BiTeMe UsAdOj]

i agree hes intentionally hurting an enemy, hes also hurting other players in the process,...

...it was an obvoius chip dump, this also has to be considered one since playersonly admitted it via chat.

[thetrinity]

This whole thread is one big LOL. I'm not sure what's the most funny but Hawley's definitely cracking me up.



I was thinking about this. I've flat out heard people say this at Crown. Things like "you're a f'n c... I'd rather him get in than you" and then fold their hands. Of course we don't know what they're holding so for all we know they had rags anyway and were just trying to buy the pot from the short stack but realised they were beat so they decided to talk smack. They don't get punished. WTF for??? Being mean?

Maybe I should call them, ask them and record it. They host the Aussie Millions every year so surely they'd be considered a decent opinion, no?

of course they would be, make sure you mention the fact they are blatantly pot committed after opening the pot tho and not just mad someone raised their blind or after a limp in.

[shari91]

of course they would be, make sure you mention the fact they are blatantly pot committed after opening the pot tho and not just mad someone raised their blind or after a limp in.

Ok, I'll jump on Skype and do it now. But I'm telling you, I've sat in tourneys where guys have been going at each other at the table and were full on blatant about that stuff. Just like they were blatant about folding to me so I'd last longer because I was the token female at the table. Which also can be argued messes with the tournament structure but let's not get into that.

Wish me luck as I'm not a pro phone call taper like JJ

[BiTeMe UsAdOj]

Ok, I'll jump on Skype and do it now. But I'm telling you, I've sat in tourneys where guys have been going at each other at the table and were full on blatant about that stuff. Just like they were blatant about folding to me so I'd last longer because I was the token female at the table. Which also can be argued messes with the tournament structure but let's not get into that.

Wish me luck as I'm not a pro phone call taper like JJ

Shari... you need to deal with ALL THE SPECIFICS OF THIS PARTICULAR HAND (action and chat) and not the general idea of "is it ok to target someone in a tourney b/c you don't like them" and other extraneous stuff of this ilk (thread littered w/extraneous examples not pertinent to this particular hand).

PO dumped chips purposely... chip dumping is a form of cheating.

[stefan084]

this thing is bigger than any of us at sbr, it's time to call in the feds. if not ,hawley i'd like to be on the investigation team if you'll have me

[shari91]

Shari... you need to deal with ALL THE SPECIFICS OF THIS PARTICULAR HAND (action and chat) and not the general idea of "is it ok to target someone in a tourney b/c you don't like them" and other extraneous stuff of this ilk (thread littered w/extraneous examples not pertinent to this particular hand).

PO dumped chips purposely... chip dumping is a form of cheating.

I think I've got a pretty good handle on the hand and situation here but as I'm still waiting for some program to download to allow me to tape the call, maybe you can spell out for me exactly what I should say? Just so there's no argument that I omitted something accidentally.

Give me a mini script or breakdown and that way no one can snipe at me when I make the call.

[King Mayan]

Dear Shari,

Please help the homeboy ttwarrior out.

These type of flagrant plays should not be allowed.

Sincerely-

King Mayan. xoxoxo

[Double Bogey]

Good lord, this worked up over points? It is funny how the guys who play for pennies get the most pissed about stupid garbage. Maybe you should spend 1/10th of the time looking for a job than you do playing sbr poker for points. It's not even funny, just pathetic

[sickler]

Ban the prick

[milwaukee mike]

Shari... you need to deal with ALL THE SPECIFICS OF THIS PARTICULAR HAND (action and chat) and not the general idea of "is it ok to target someone in a tourney b/c you don't like them" and other extraneous stuff of this ilk (thread littered w/extraneous examples not pertinent to this particular hand).

PO dumped chips purposely... chip dumping is a form of cheating.

chip dumping is only a form of cheating if there is a benefit to the dumper or collusion with the dumpee.
on the river if the board shows ak876 and i have 23 i can call an all-in if i want and why should i be punished even if i admitted i shouldn't have done it? for being stupid?

if po gets punished for this then i'm boycotting sbr poker for at least 2 days as a sign of disgust

[shari91]

Dear Shari,

Please help the homeboy ttwarrior out.

These type of flagrant plays should not be allowed.

Sincerely-

King Mayan. xoxoxo

I like tt but I have to be truthful... I've seen this happen not a lot but somewhat regularly in tourneys here when a lot more money was at stake than what's being offered in the SBR Finals. And nothing was done. In fact I even benefited quite a few times. So if this is against Crown's rules and the dealer and supervisor were just clueless every time, it'd be good to know. I truly can't see how it is though. A person can choose to do whatever they want with their chips, including taking max time to act, playing like a nutter and getting up and walking away after a big hit (ring games for that one obv). I think there are things that fall under poker etiquette and just not being a douchebag but it's not collusion or cheating if the other person didn't even have a clue that you were going to do or say what you did. And again for all we know, PO had crap and was just hoarding chips until the final table when he realised he was beat but wanted to piss tt off.

[milwaukee mike]

I like tt but I have to be truthful... I've seen this happen not a lot but somewhat regularly in tourneys here when a lot more money was at stake than what's being offered in the SBR Finals. And nothing was done. In fact I even benefited quite a few times. So if this is against Crown's rules and the dealer and supervisor were just clueless every time, it'd be good to know. I truly can't see how it is though. A person can choose to do whatever they want with their chips, including taking max time to act, playing like a nutter and getting up and walking away after a big hit (ring games for that one obv). I think there are things that fall under poker etiquette and just not being a douchebag but it's not collusion or cheating if the other person didn't even have a clue that you were going to do or say what you did. And again for all we know, PO had crap and was just hoarding chips until the final table when he realised he was beat but wanted to piss tt off.

it's not like he folded to a 5 chip all in with 4250 in the pot, it was another 1180.
i've folded raises plenty of times even with 5-1 pot odds.

[BiTeMe UsAdOj]

Shari... my fondness for you knows no bounds and I'd love to write you a script covering all the bases, but as I'm currently working just send them this... they'll be able to figure out the obvious chip dump (and ramifications to other players along w/tt) reading HH coupled with the chat comments.

**************************************** ***********************************

It was clear by your own words (PO) WHY you "chose to fold"... and it had nothing to do with the all-in raise (for just ~1k more after you had already raised to 2.4k).

It was b/c of THIS:

playersonly69: i just dont want titywarrior making the final table
playersonly69: i am going to fold here so he doesnt make it
downsouth: Wow
ttwarrior1: who cares
BiTeMeUsAdOj: that was dumb

**************************************** ***********

Here's the HH. Your nonsense obviously affected everyone in tourney, not just tt.


***** Hand history (v1.2) ***** Hand ID 1728930 $0 + $11 Texas Hold'em (No Limit) - 00:25:00 09/05/2012 ET Table 'Table 28339', 10 seats max, Real money Seat 1 is the button. Small Blind $0, Big Blind $800 Note: seat IDs range from 1 to 10 Seat 1 (playing) : mih847, amount $3630, amount bet $0, penalty (None) Seat 5 (playing) : downsouth, amount $3676, amount bet $0, penalty (None) Seat 6 (playing) : BiTeMeUsAdOj, amount $10100, amount bet $0, penalty (None) Seat 7 (playing) : ttwarrior1, amount $2190, amount bet $0, penalty (None) Seat 9 (playing) : playersonly69, amount $21270, amount bet $0, penalty (None) downsouth: Big Blind ($800)

** Dealing Down Cards ** Dealt to BiTeMeUsAdOj: [6c, 6h] BiTeMeUsAdOj: Call. ($800) ttwarrior1: Fold. ($0)

playersonly69: Raise. ($2400) mih847: Raise. ($3580) downsouth: Fold. ($0) BiTeMeUsAdOj: Fold. ($0) playersonly69: Fold. ($0) ** End Round ** ** Evaluate ** mih847: Muck ($0) ** Showdown ** Main pot $7830, Rake $0 Summary mih847: bet $3580, won $7830, net $4250, won $7830 from main pot

[BigDaddy]

whats the biggest dog he could be in the hand?

why would you ever fold in his spot getting 5-1 preflop ?

[shari91]

Biter, I'm hold with them right now. I'm thinking of saying this since i can't send them anything and it's almost 3am here. This should summarise it no? If not, correct it for me guys quickly

Hand starts with blinds 400/800

player1 has 21k + chips and raises to 2400 pre flop

player2 calls and raises another 1100 to 3580 to put himself essentially all in

player1 folded even though he obviously had the chips to cover it, pot odds, etc - this was also on the bubble (i think???)

player1 makes a comment that he's going to fold so that player3 (a player not in the hand but whom he has a nasty history with, doesn't make it to the final table)

would i receive any sort of penalty in this situation if i were player1? if so, what?

[BiTeMe UsAdOj]

Read to them my post....

[shari91]

Read to them my post....

they've already hung up on me twice accidentally... i can't rattle off a hand history of players not even involved i the hand. I'll go with my summary and hope that's enough. xo

[PickWinnerAllDay]

Why does everyone think ttwarrior1 is a paid poster?

There is only one possibility there... SBR isn't going to offer him more than they need to, he is probably only paid in pizza giftcards. One per day.

[ShawNee922]

The main problem is that you girls talk too much ..

Learn to keep your mouth shut PO ...

[milwaukee mike]

Biter, I'm hold with them right now. I'm thinking of saying this since i can't send them anything and it's almost 3am here. This should summarise it no? If not, correct it for me guys quickly

Hand starts with blinds 400/800

player1 has 21k + chips and raises to 2400 pre flop

player2 calls and raises another 1100 to 3580 to put himself essentially all in

player1 folded even though he obviously had the chips to cover it, pot odds, etc - this was also on the bubble (i think???)

player1 makes a comment that he's going to fold so that player3 (a player not in the hand but whom he has a nasty history with, doesn't make it to the final table)

would i receive any sort of penalty in this situation if i were player1? if so, what?

i would change this part, to player 1 saying after the fact that he folded so that player 3 would be out of the tournament sooner

[BranchDavidian]

I am simply amazed that so many posters here are of the opinion that POS69 does not have the option to fold here, or at any other time he is raised. Suppose the floor supervisor came to your table and told you that you had to call someone's raise. I am pretty sure that if TTWarrior was ever told he had to call a raise, there would be a lot more whining than now. This was a strategic move that any player has the right to make. MilwaukeeMike has been right on here. There was no collusion, there was no rule broken. POS69 does not owe anyone else in the tournament a call. Next time I am in a tournament, and someone with a lot of chips makes a small raise and then folds to a reraise from a short stack that I would like to see eliminated ( to increase my chances ), I guess I might as well file a complaint ( which, by the way, happens quite often ).

[BiTeMe UsAdOj]

Lots of people here having reading comprehension issues while playing in the field of apples and oranges with a healthy dose of poker cluelessness.....

[BranchDavidian]

Lots of people here having reading comprehension issues while playing in the field of apples and oranges with a healthy dose of poker cluelessness.....

If POS69 had not made the chat comment, this thread would not exist. Poker players can make call or fold decisions based upon anything they wish.