1. #1
    guitarjosh
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    How Does the Coronavirus Compare to the Flu?

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/29/h...virus-flu.html

    By Denise GradyUpdated March 1, 2020, 12:53 a.m. ET
    As new cases appear on the West Coast, some — including the president — see comparisons to the seasonal flu. Here’s a close look at the differences.

    A coronavirus patient and a health worker inside the Jinyintan Hospital in Wuhan, China.China Daily/Reuters

    Is this new coronavirus really a serious danger? Doesn’t the flu kill more people?

    As the United States recorded its first coronavirus death on Saturday — and as other cases popped up in people without known risks on the West Coast — Americans wondered how to measure this new threat against a more familiar foe: influenza.

    President Trump, a self-described germophobe, said on Wednesday he was amazed to learn that tens of thousands of Americans died from the flu each year, contrasting that number with the 60 or so known to be infected with the coronavirus. On Friday, Mr. Trump accused the news media and Democrats of exaggerating the dangers of the virus.

    “The flu kills people,” Mick Mulvaney, the acting White House chief of staff, said on Wednesday. “This is not Ebola. It’s not SARS, it’s not MERS. It’s not a death sentence.”

    To many public health officials, that argument misses the point.

    Yes, the flu is terrible — that’s exactly why scientists don’t want another contagious respiratory disease to take root. If they could stop the seasonal flu, they would. But there may yet be a chance to stop the coronavirus.

    In many ways, the flu is the best argument for throwing everything at the coronavirus. Here’s a closer look at the similarities and differences.

    Which virus is deadlier?

    The coronavirus seems to be more deadly than the flu — so far.

    On average, seasonal flu strains kill about 0.1 percent of people who become infected. The 1918 flu had an unusually high fatality rate, around 2 percent. Because it was so contagious, that flu killed tens of millions of people.

    Early estimates of the coronavirus death rate from Wuhan, China, the epicenter of the outbreak, have been around 2 percent. But a new report on 1,099 cases from many parts of China, published on Friday in The New England Journal of Medicine, finds a lower rate: 1.4 percent.

    The coronavirus death rate may be even lower, if — as most experts suspect — there are many mild or symptom-free cases that have not been detected.

    The true death rate could turn out to be similar to that of a severe seasonal flu, below 1 percent, according to an editorial published in the journal by Dr. Anthony S. Fauci and Dr. H. Clifford Lane, of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, and Dr. Robert R. Redfield, director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.


    But even a disease with a relatively low death rate can take a huge toll if enormous numbers of people catch it. As of Friday, there were 83,861 coronavirus cases and 2,867 deaths. This week, for the first time, the number of new cases outside China exceeded the number within the country.



    Which virus is more contagious?

    So far, the new coronavirus seems to be more contagious than most strains of the flu, and roughly as contagious as strains that appear in pandemic flu seasons.

    Each person with the coronavirus appears to infect 2.2 other people, on average. But the figure is skewed by the fact that the epidemic was not managed well in the beginning, and infections soared in Wuhan and the surrounding province. As an epidemic comes under control, the reproduction number, as it’s called, will fall.

    By comparison, the figure for the seasonal flu is roughly 1.3. The reproduction number for the flu of 1918 was about the same as that of the new coronavirus, perhaps higher, but that was before modern treatments and vaccines were available.

    In both flu and the illness caused by the coronavirus, people may be contagious before symptoms develop, making it difficult or even impossible to control the spread of the virus. Nobody knows how many people infected with the coronavirus have only very mild symptoms or none at all.

    How Does the Coronavirus Compare to the Flu?
    By Denise GradyUpdated March 1, 2020, 11:30 a.m. ET
    As new cases appear on the West Coast, some — including the president — see comparisons to the seasonal flu. Here’s a close look at the differences.

    A coronavirus patient and a health worker inside the Jinyintan Hospital in Wuhan, China.
    A coronavirus patient and a health worker inside the Jinyintan Hospital in Wuhan, China.China Daily/Reuters
    Is this new coronavirus really a serious danger? Doesn’t the flu kill more people?

    As the United States recorded its first coronavirus death on Saturday — and as other cases popped up in people without known risks on the West Coast — Americans wondered how to measure this new threat against a more familiar foe: influenza.

    President Trump, a self-described germophobe, said on Wednesday he was amazed to learn that tens of thousands of Americans died from the flu each year, contrasting that number with the 60 or so known to be infected with the coronavirus. On Friday, Mr. Trump accused the news media and Democrats of exaggerating the dangers of the virus.

    “The flu kills people,” Mick Mulvaney, the acting White House chief of staff, said on Wednesday. “This is not Ebola. It’s not SARS, it’s not MERS. It’s not a death sentence.”

    To many public health officials, that argument misses the point.

    Yes, the flu is terrible — that’s exactly why scientists don’t want another contagious respiratory disease to take root. If they could stop the seasonal flu, they would. But there may yet be a chance to stop the coronavirus.

    In many ways, the flu is the best argument for throwing everything at the coronavirus. Here’s a closer look at the similarities and differences.


    How Bad Will the Coronavirus Outbreak Get? Here Are 6 Key Factors

    Here’s what early research says about how the pathogen behaves and the factors that will determine how far it will spread.

    Which virus is more contagious?

    So far, the new coronavirus seems to be more contagious than most strains of the flu, and roughly as contagious as strains that appear in pandemic flu seasons.

    Each person with the coronavirus appears to infect 2.2 other people, on average. But the figure is skewed by the fact that the epidemic was not managed well in the beginning, and infections soared in Wuhan and the surrounding province. As an epidemic comes under control, the reproduction number, as it’s called, will fall.

    The Coronavirus Outbreak

    By comparison, the figure for the seasonal flu is roughly 1.3. The reproduction number for the flu of 1918 was about the same as that of the new coronavirus, perhaps higher, but that was before modern treatments and vaccines were available.

    In both flu and the illness caused by the coronavirus, people may be contagious before symptoms develop, making it difficult or even impossible to control the spread of the virus. Nobody knows how many people infected with the coronavirus have only very mild symptoms or none at all.

    Who is most at risk from infection?

    Both the coronavirus and influenza are most dangerous to people who are older than 65, or have chronic illnesses or a weak immune system.

    Death rates among men infected with the coronavirus in China, particularly those in their late 40s and older, have exceeded those among women, a pattern not seen in the seasonal flu. The reason for the discrepancy is not known, although Chinese men do smoke more, often resulting in compromised lung function.

    There seems to be another important difference: The flu appears far more dangerous to children, particularly very young ones, who can become severely ill. Children infected with the new coronavirus tend to have mild or no symptoms.

    The flu is also especially dangerous for pregnant women, who can become severely ill from it. Whether the new coronavirus poses as serious a threat to pregnant women is not known.

    Which virus makes you sicker?

    As of Feb. 22, in the current season there were at least 32 million cases of flu in the United States, 310,000 hospitalizations and 18,000 flu deaths, according to the C.D.C. Hospitalization rates among children and young adults this year have been unusually high.

    There would be even more illnesses and deaths if there were no flu vaccine. Most people recover in less than two weeks, and sometimes in just days.

    By contrast, fewer than 70 people in the United States have been infected with the new coronavirus, and there has been one death. There are no treatments or vaccines for the coronavirus, only supportive care for infected people.

    Most cases of coronavirus infection are not severe, but some people do become quite sick. Data from the largest study of patients to date, conducted in China, suggests that of coronavirus patients receiving medical attention, 80 percent had mild infections, about 15 percent had severe illnesses, and 5 percent were critical.

    The first symptoms, fever and cough, are similar to that of the flu, so the diseases can be hard to tell apart without a test to identify the virus. Pneumonia is common among coronavirus patients, even among those whose cases are not severe.

    Experts think there may also be many people with no symptoms at all, or such mild ones that they never bother to seek medical attention. Because those cases have not been counted, it’s not possible now to know the real proportion of mild versus severe cases.

    Antibody tests, which can determine whether someone has ever been infected, may eventually help to establish how many people had mild or asymptomatic coronavirus infections.

    Can people become immune to the coronavirus?

    After viral infections, people generally develop antibodies in their blood that will fight off the virus and protect them from contracting it again. It’s reasonable to assume that people who have had the new coronavirus will become immune to it.

    But it is not known how long that immunity will last. With other coronaviruses, which cause the common cold, immunity can wane.

    There are vaccines for the seasonal flu, of course, and these induce at least partial immunity to influenza.

    What treatments are available?

    There is no approved antiviral drug for the coronavirus, though several are being tested. Doctors can recommend only the usual remedies for any viral illness: rest, medicine to reduce pain and fever, and fluids to avoid dehydration.

    Coronavirus patients with pneumonia may also need oxygen, and a ventilator if breathing trouble worsens.

    For the flu, however, there are four prescription medicines. All work best if they are taken within a day or two of when symptoms start.

    They’re not miracle cures: They can lessen the severity of the illness and shorten its course by a day or so, and they may lower the risk of serious complications.

    The drugs are also recommended for people who have been exposed to a flu patient, to try to prevent the illness.

    The flu, like the coronavirus illness, can also cause pneumonia and breathing trouble. Anyone who becomes short of breath needs medical attention quickly.

    Can I get vaccinated?

    An experimental vaccine for the coronavirus may be ready for testing in humans within a few months, but will take much longer, at least a year or two, to become available for widespread use.

    Flu vaccines, on the other hand, are widely available and generally 40 percent to 60 percent effective, which means they will reduce cases by that amount in a population that has been vaccinated, compared with one that has not.

    The vaccine for the current season falls into that range, according to the C.D.C., which said on Feb. 21 that people who have not been vaccinated should still get the shot, because the flu season is ongoing.

    Experts have been urging people to get the flu shot for all the usual reasons. But now there’s another: If there is a coronavirus outbreak in the United States, hospitals will need all the beds, equipment and staff they can muster.

    It will be important not to have those resources taken up by patients with flu that could have been prevented.

    [Like the Science Times page on Facebook. | Sign up for the Science Times newsletter.]

    Will the coronavirus go away when the weather warms?

    Mr. Trump has said repeatedly that the coronavirus will retreat as weather warms, just as influenza does. In fact, because this is a new virus, there is no information about how the weather might affect it.

    Even if the virus were to diminish in the spring, it might rebound later in the fall, as the weather cools. This is a pattern often seen in severe flu seasons.

    Containment is becoming less likely, because of the contagiousness of the virus, the possibility that people can spread it before they have symptoms and the increasing number of outbreaks around the world.

    The cases in California, Oregon and Washington State without known links to overseas travel, reported on Friday, may be a warning sign that the new coronavirus has already begun to circulate.

  2. #2
    pavyracer
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    When a patient is in a hospital with the flu the doctors and nurses don't wear hazmat suits. This is the main difference.

  3. #3
    Booya711
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    The flu kills more people....

  4. #4
    Snowball
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    well, I saw Sanjay Gupta say on CNN live
    stock up on 3 months meds
    consider scaling back social activities
    never shake hands, etc.
    and we could be looking at 1 million Americans infected, with public buildings converted to hostpitals,
    15% will require 24 hour care with respirators

    we are going to be hit with numbers as the tests are applied this week and next
    which will be in the thousands.

  5. #5
    Booya711
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowball View Post
    well, I saw Sanjay Gupta say on CNN live
    stock up on 3 months meds
    consider scaling back social activities
    never shake hands, etc.
    and we could be looking at 1 million Americans infected, with public buildings converted to hostpitals,
    15% will require 24 hour care with respirators

    we are going to be hit with numbers as the tests are applied this week and next
    which will be in the thousands.
    Just causing panic....sad

  6. #6
    Chi_archie
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    Quote Originally Posted by Booya711 View Post
    The flu kills more people....

    its had a bit of a head start, no?

    Kind of like Saying Adam Morrison has more points than Zion Williamson


    plus at least half the population is protected with a vaccine with the flu

    we might see 25-100k dead from this when it gets a full season hopefully we get a vaccine just a bit before the Autum of 2021

    people should finally wake up and get the FLU shot just to help not spread the flu which ultimately kills all these people every year and people still selfishly or lazily don't get it

  7. #7
    Booya711
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chi_archie View Post
    its had a bit of a head start, no?

    Kind of like Saying Adam Morrison has more points than Zion Williamson


    plus at least half the population is protected with a vaccine with the flu

    we might see 25-100k dead from this when it gets a full season hopefully we get a vaccine just a bit before the Autum of 2021

    people should finally wake up and get the FLU shot just to help not spread the flu which ultimately kills all these people every year and people still selfishly or lazily don't get it
    I work in hospitals and talk to doctors daily....they are my voice of reason

  8. #8
    asiagambler
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    The name should be changed from coronavirus to chinavirus

  9. #9
    Mr KLC
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    Researchers at London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine say that while they are cautious to project where the virus will go from here, models suggest that “the outbreak could peak in mid- to late February if current trends continue.”

  10. #10
    Chi_archie
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    Quote Originally Posted by Booya711 View Post
    I work in hospitals and talk to doctors daily....they are my voice of reason
    yeah me too

    but there is a difference between comparing something that is just beginning and something that has been around, that's all i'm pointing out

  11. #11
    jjgold
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    Same
    If your old or young could be dangerous

  12. #12
    Auto Donk
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    very similar to common flu and cold.... common cold is a coronavirus itself....

    major difference is in the mortality rate.... which although very small (2 out of 100 have/will died of covd-19/coronavirus, ie, 2 percent fatality rate), while normal flu has a mortality rate of .10 (one in one thousand will die).........

  13. #13
    Mr KLC
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  14. #14
    Auto Donk
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    another big difference is at the strip club:

    strip club during coronavirus scare looks like this:



  15. #15
    Chi_archie
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    [QUOTE=Mr KLC;29294310][/QUOTE


    there have been various strains going back for years and years


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_coronavirus_NL63

  16. #16
    Booya711
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chi_archie View Post
    yeah me too

    but there is a difference between comparing something that is just beginning and something that has been around, that's all i'm pointing out
    I understood your point....media is overblowing this because they have to....even the medical people on record publically have to or they will look bad....

    at the end of the day, the medical professionals that aren’t being public are saying not to panic and overreact

  17. #17
    Chi_archie
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    Quote Originally Posted by Booya711 View Post
    I understood your point....media is overblowing this because they have to....even the medical people on record publically have to or they will look bad....
    i've been saying that as well

  18. #18
    GUMMO77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auto Donk View Post
    very similar to common flu and cold.... common cold is a coronavirus itself....

    major difference is in the mortality rate.... which although very small (2 out of 100 have/will died of covd-19/coronavirus, ie, 2 percent fatality rate), while normal flu has a mortality rate of .10 (one in one thousand will die).........
    Not that we can trust China on the numbers, but a large percentage of the deaths occurred in Wuhan, where it started. The last number I saw, which could be different now, says if you take out those numbers it's just under 1% mortality rate.

  19. #19
    jtoler
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    humanity = walking dead so what difference does it make

  20. #20
    cincinnatikid513
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    Quote Originally Posted by asiagambler View Post
    The name should be changed from coronavirus to chinavirus
    yah corona beer got fuked here

  21. #21
    Chi_archie
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    Quote Originally Posted by GUMMO77 View Post
    Not that we can trust China on the numbers, but a large percentage of the deaths occurred in Wuhan, where it started. The last number I saw, which could be different now, says if you take out those numbers it's just under 1% mortality rate.
    the early #'s out of Italy and Iran were bigger actually

  22. #22
    GUMMO77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chi_archie View Post
    the early #'s out of Italy and Iran were bigger actually
    Great

  23. #23
    Purduekev
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auto Donk View Post
    another big difference is at the strip club:

    strip club during coronavirus scare looks like this:


    Where do you put the disinfected dollar bills?

  24. #24
    MinnesotaFats
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    In layman's terms:

    Coronavirus has been around for many many years, much like the flu.

    Health experts have seen many versions and deviations of the flu and can anticipate such season by season.

    Scientists have never seen coronavirus mutations such as this or at this pace, some new or in addition to the traditional virus, is causing these mutations. Humans cannot identify it to date

    Weaker immune systems and people living beyond traditional life expectancy are subject to increased risk of death.

    It's that simple

  25. #25
    jtoler
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    amazing how climate change was the daily convo and now it seems so 80’s turn off the tv

  26. #26
    Otters27
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    Quote Originally Posted by MinnesotaFats View Post
    In layman's terms:

    Coronavirus has been around for many many years, much like the flu.

    Health experts have seen many versions and deviations of the flu and can anticipate such season by season.

    Scientists have never seen coronavirus mutations such as this or at this pace, some new or in addition to the traditional virus, is causing these mutations. Humans cannot identify it to date

    Weaker immune systems and people living beyond traditional life expectancy are subject to increased risk of death.

    It's that simple
    What about the rumor it can possibly lie dormant

  27. #27
    MinnesotaFats
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    Dormat not the right word

    Just that it can spread before symptoms show, which bodes well for healthy humans meaning our immune systems can handle it

    Does not bode well for old or unhealthy underdeveloped youth

    That's what will shut everything down....schools and seniors. Alot of government spending will cease and seniors wont spend their discretionary income going out....that's the domestic economic concern.

    Internationally....we all know about travel and supply chain/ import/ export w Asain trade.

    It's why you cant buy stocks just yet

    But no, it's not like herpes or syphilis where its dormat for 10 years....

  28. #28
    Chi_archie
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    Quote Originally Posted by Otters27 View Post
    What about the rumor it can possibly lie dormant
    Long incubation period and mild symptoms in some, so that they might think they have a mild cold or nothing at all and still go to work and pass it along

  29. #29
    Otters27
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    Quote Originally Posted by MinnesotaFats View Post
    Dormat not the right word

    Just that it can spread before symptoms show, which bodes well for healthy humans meaning our immune systems can handle it

    Does not bode well for old or unhealthy underdeveloped youth

    That's what will shut everything down....schools and seniors. Alot of government spending will cease and seniors wont spend their discretionary income going out....that's the domestic economic concern.

    Internationally....we all know about travel and supply chain/ import/ export w Asain trade.

    It's why you cant buy stocks just yet

    But no, it's not like herpes or syphilis where its dormat for 10 years....
    Also rumor that we may not build immunity after recovery. I other words you can get I'll twice

  30. #30
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    Good point

  31. #31
    cincinnatikid513
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    otters think how well those food delivery services gonna do,blue apron harvest etc etc etc

  32. #32
    Booya711
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    So many scared losers out there...stay the fukk away

  33. #33
    fried cheese
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    Quote Originally Posted by Booya711 View Post
    So many scared losers out there...stay the fukk away
    remember when the news was fear mongering about measles and they started banning unvaccinated kids from schools in the usa?

  34. #34
    asiagambler
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    Fear is a very powerful emotion

  35. #35
    cincinnatikid513
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    worry bout posters over 60 gold odom jibbs

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