[Big Bear]

I’ll go first

Your will probably differ this is my current power ranking

1. Justin Verlander
2. Cole Hamels
3. Luis Castillo
4. Blake Snell
5. Carlos Carrasco
6. Ryu
7. Kyle Hendriks
8. Max Scherzer
9. Jacob deGrom
10. Zack Greinke

[jjgold]

no thanks

Bear I cannot even name 5 mlb pitchers anymore, most have dead arms now

Degrom
Verlander

[Chi_archie]

Chris Paddack

[jts1207]

Cole Hamels #2?

[LT Profits]

Sale belongs despite his record.

[sosawestbrook]

Damn. I’ll take the bottom 3 all day. Consistency is everything

[MinnesotaFats]

Fukkin clowns

Berrios on any list

[JAKEPEAVY21]

Hamels at 2 is laughable

[shadymcgrady]

Doc Ellis

[mncosoldier]

1. Homer bailey
2. Lance lynn
3. Andrew cashner
4. Jesse varges
5. Edwin jackson
6. K Gibson
7.k gausman
8. S brault
9. 5O cent
10. Mark Mallory

[MinnesotaFats]

LOL

50 cent worst 1st pitch ever???

[magpie878]

[ronald]

Hamels?

Are these the rankings from 2009?

[allabout the $$$]

Fukkin clowns

Berrios on any list

he is good but id say top 15.

[4sees]

W	L	ERA	G	GS	SV	IP	SO	WHIP
2019 Stats	6	2	2.63	9	9	0	48.0	46	1.06

Odorizzi

NOTE: Stats above shifted 1 row ... 2.63 ERA

[LT Profits]

Sorted by xFIP

#	Name	Team	W	L	SV	G	GS	IP	K/9	BB/9	HR/9	BABIP	LOB%	GB%	HR/FB	ERA	FIP	xFIP	WAR
123 Page size: 85 items in 3 pages
1	Gerrit Cole	Astros	4	4	0	9	9	55.2	13.90	2.43	1.46	.288	64.5 %	38.7 %	20.0 %	3.88	2.92	2.32	1.5
2	Blake Snell	Rays	3	4	0	8	8	43.0	12.98	2.30	1.26	.294	72.3 %	45.1 %	18.2 %	3.56	2.87	2.48	1.2
3	Hyun-Jin Ryu	Dodgers	5	1	0	8	8	52.1	9.29	0.52	1.03	.230	94.6 %	46.2 %	16.7 %	1.72	2.70	2.49	1.5
4	Stephen Strasburg	Nationals	3	3	0	9	9	57.0	11.84	2.53	0.95	.288	72.2 %	51.1 %	14.6 %	3.63	2.73	2.70	1.7
5	Max Scherzer	Nationals	2	4	0	9	9	59.1	11.98	1.52	0.76	.361	69.2 %	43.7 %	9.8 %	3.64	2.24	2.74	2.1
6	Tyler Glasnow	Rays	6	1	0	8	8	48.1	10.24	1.68	0.56	.276	82.9 %	51.7 %	8.3 %	1.86	2.19	2.77	1.8
7	Chris Sale	Red Sox	1	5	0	9	9	51.0	12.88	1.94	1.41	.297	68.4 %	43.6 %	18.2 %	4.24	3.28	2.84	1.2
8	Jacob deGrom	Mets	3	4	0	8	8	47.0	12.26	2.68	1.15	.299	81.6 %	40.0 %	16.2 %	3.26	3.12	2.92	1.2
9	Caleb Smith	Marlins	3	1	0	8	8	48.0	12.00	2.63	1.13	.245	89.9 %	32.3 %	14.3 %	2.25	2.93	2.93	1.3
10	Carlos Carrasco	Indians	4	3	0	9	9	47.1	11.79	1.33	1.52	.345	75.9 %	37.7 %	15.7 %	4.18	3.18	2.99	1.3

Imagine if Caleb Smith pitched for a real team!

[4sees]

Lester ... 1.16 ERA

[2daBank]

Sorted by xFIP

#	Name	Team	W	L	SV	G	GS	IP	K/9	BB/9	HR/9	BABIP	LOB%	GB%	HR/FB	ERA	FIP	xFIP	WAR
123 Page size: 85 items in 3 pages
1	Gerrit Cole	Astros	4	4	0	9	9	55.2	13.90	2.43	1.46	.288	64.5 %	38.7 %	20.0 %	3.88	2.92	2.32	1.5
2	Blake Snell	Rays	3	4	0	8	8	43.0	12.98	2.30	1.26	.294	72.3 %	45.1 %	18.2 %	3.56	2.87	2.48	1.2
3	Hyun-Jin Ryu	Dodgers	5	1	0	8	8	52.1	9.29	0.52	1.03	.230	94.6 %	46.2 %	16.7 %	1.72	2.70	2.49	1.5
4	Stephen Strasburg	Nationals	3	3	0	9	9	57.0	11.84	2.53	0.95	.288	72.2 %	51.1 %	14.6 %	3.63	2.73	2.70	1.7
5	Max Scherzer	Nationals	2	4	0	9	9	59.1	11.98	1.52	0.76	.361	69.2 %	43.7 %	9.8 %	3.64	2.24	2.74	2.1
6	Tyler Glasnow	Rays	6	1	0	8	8	48.1	10.24	1.68	0.56	.276	82.9 %	51.7 %	8.3 %	1.86	2.19	2.77	1.8
7	Chris Sale	Red Sox	1	5	0	9	9	51.0	12.88	1.94	1.41	.297	68.4 %	43.6 %	18.2 %	4.24	3.28	2.84	1.2
8	Jacob deGrom	Mets	3	4	0	8	8	47.0	12.26	2.68	1.15	.299	81.6 %	40.0 %	16.2 %	3.26	3.12	2.92	1.2
9	Caleb Smith	Marlins	3	1	0	8	8	48.0	12.00	2.63	1.13	.245	89.9 %	32.3 %	14.3 %	2.25	2.93	2.93	1.3
10	Carlos Carrasco	Indians	4	3	0	9	9	47.1	11.79	1.33	1.52	.345	75.9 %	37.7 %	15.7 %	4.18	3.18	2.99	1.3

Imagine if Caleb Smith pitched for a real team!

What would be so great about that? Then ppl would know him and I’d never be able to play him cause he be priced like other dudes I fade, play total, or pass on. Seems like his prices have already started getting less appealing as secret getting out but being on marlins will pretty much always keep him as the dog and ff unders be appealing since not likely he gets much support!!

In short, I’m glad he on Marlins!! Lol

[LT Profits]

Lester ... 1.16 ERA

With 3.41 xFIP

Just like entire Cubs rotation, ERA outperforming xFIP, which is not a good thing.

[Professor1215]

[2daBank]

With 3.41 xFIP

Just like entire Cubs rotation, ERA outperforming xFIP, which is not a good thing.

I’m incredibly gray area w some metrics, like them, use them, however not always the be all end all and I think vets like hamels and Lester will continually outperform them unfil the wheels fall off and age takes another progression. Could be that happens later this season, maybe not till another year or 2. Imo a lot of the things called luck are guys knowing how to pitch without striking everyone out.

[LT Profits]

I’m incredibly gray area w some metrics, like them, use them, however not always the be all end all and I think vets like hamels and Lester will continually outperform them unfil the wheels fall off and age takes another progression. Could be that happens later this season, maybe not till another year or 2. Imo a lot of the things called luck are guys knowing how to pitch without striking everyone out.

In Lester's case, he currently boasts an unsustainable 90.2% strand rate (not counting tonight's start).

In Hamels' case. he has benefited from .250 BABIP allowed and survived 3.3 walks per 9.

Bottom line I see no reason to stop fading them as of now.

[hubie69]

Rank them according to what? ROI? XFip? Wins? Contact rate? Swinging strike rate? K/Walk ratio?

[hubie69]

With 3.41 xFIP

Just like entire Cubs rotation, ERA outperforming xFIP, which is not a good thing.

Couldn't agree more

[Big Bear]

Is there a glossary where I can read up on what these acronyms stand for?

Like what is Xfip?

[LT Profits]

Is there a glossary where I can read up on what these acronyms stand for?

Like what is Xfip?

fangraphs

https://www.fangraphs.com/

Glossary tab on upper right

[LT Profits]

fangraphs

https://www.fangraphs.com/

Glossary tab on upper right

FIP is raw Fielder Independent Pitching and xFIP is adjusted FIP

[d2bets]

FIP is raw Fielder Independent Pitching and xFIP is adjusted FIP

One problem is that pitchers with great defenses backing them may always outpitch their FIP. Why ignore the effect of the team's defense? Maybe that goes toward explaining why Cubs pitchers keep outperforming raw numbers. Why shpuld that change?

[d2bets]

In Lester's case, he currently boasts an unsustainable 90.2% strand rate (not counting tonight's start).

In Hamels' case. he has benefited from .250 BABIP allowed and survived 3.3 walks per 9.

Bottom line I see no reason to stop fading them as of now.

Lester's ERA not counting that start was 1.19. Obviously that is unsustainable.

As for Hamels though, he gets weak contact and has a great defense behind him. He knows when to walk and not to walk. When he wants to throw strikes, he does. He's not wild. His current 3.13 ERA is quite sustainable. I wouldn't be surprised if he even finishes a bit below 3.

[LT Profits]

One problem is that pitchers with great defenses backing them may always outpitch their FIP. Why ignore the effect of the team's defense? Maybe that goes toward explaining why Cubs pitchers keep outperforming raw numbers. Why shpuld that change?

I don't ignore team defense as it is part of the model. This conversation is purely about pitcher ratings, and xFIP grades how they perform on their own regardless of the team.

[hubie69]

I don't ignore team defense as it is part of the model. This conversation is purely about pitcher ratings, and xFIP grades how they perform on their own regardless of the team.

I don't think this can be stated enough. XFip is such an important tool in pitcher regression. When attempting to gauge where to buy into a Pitcher as a commodity Xfip is one of the first things I go to.

[daneblazer]

Ivan Nova

[Charlie4]

Just ERA right now?

Hyun-Jin Ryu LAD 1.26
Mike Soroka ATL 2.12
Lucas Giolito CHW 2.22
Jake Odorizzi MIN 2.24
Luis Castillo CIN 2.26
Charlie Morton TB 2.37
Justin Verlander HOU 2.59
Zach Davies MIL 2.60
Mike Minor TEX 2.63
Zack Greinke ARI 2.65

And these guys cause of wins
Frankie Montas OAK 2.85
Jose Berrios MIN 2.86

[2daBank]

I don't think this can be stated enough. XFip is such an important tool in pitcher regression. When attempting to gauge where to buy into a Pitcher as a commodity Xfip is one of the first things I go to.

I think it a good tool but also think many use it as a be all end all. Personally I disagree w some things it considers luck.

[navyblue81]

Blake Snell was top 10 year. He’s turned into Chris Archer this year. Guy is struggling.