 SBR Top-Rated Sportsbooks |
Best Sportsbooks List
|
|
| |||||
| #1 FanDuel | SBR rating 4.8/5 | Review | #6 BetRivers | SBR rating 4.1/5 | Review | #2 Caesars | SBR rating 4.7/5 | Review | #7 Fanatics | SBR rating 4.1/5 | Review |
| #3 DraftKings | SBR rating 4.7/5 | Review | #8 Betway | SBR rating 3.8/5 | Review | ||
| #4 BetMGM | SBR rating 4.6/5 | Review | #9 Borgata | SBR rating 3.5/5 | Review | ||
| #5 bet365 | SBR rating 4.6/5 | Review | #10 ClutchBet | SBR rating 2.9/5 | Review | ||
Lebron had more help in Cleveland
Wade isnt even a starting level SG anymore. Jesus. Never seen such a decline so fast as his in the post season.
Bosh getting bullied by Roy Hibbert?
The only reason he didnt win a title in Cleveland was because Boston big 3 was in their prime.
He is carrying Miami just like he carried Cleveland. Miami has more name power, but check the stats, Cleveland was a better team. From top to bottom.
|
This post was nominated 1
time
. To view the nominated thread please click here.
People who nominated: Ratpack
|
I agree somewhat.
After watching this series I agree. I was actually thinking of this during the game. Cleveland 2.0.
Completely agree about Wade. I don't know if it's his knee or what but he is totally ineffective. The Heat went on their game-changing run in the 3rd quarter when he came out of the game. Seems like a long time ago when people referring to Wade as scoring option 1B. Seems pretty silly now.
The rest of the Heat squad have seem scared in this series. When they go on runs they are lethal because they get their confidence back and play like they are able to, but for most of the series everyone on Miami except LeBron and Birdman and maybe Chalmers have seemed absolutely terrified. None of their three point specialists are hitting shots like in the regular season where they come a lot easier.
I really think this series is going seven games. Miami got a huge boost tonight from the home crowd mentally and from some ref assistance, got the cover which I expected a 8-9 point win but they did not dominate this game. Indiana missed a lot of close shots they normally make. I expect them stay alive in game 6 and take the series back to Miami for game 7.
Lebrons back will brake during the finals from carrying his team too long
If Lebron had more help in Cleveland... why didn't they win a Championship?
c'mon..this heat team is way better
you are forgetting ray allen...and bunch of other role players in this team
that cavs team and this miami team are not even close.
Birdman and Haslem are more help than he had in Cleveland.
however, Lebroms gotten much, much better also. I think this LBJ would wins ring with that Cleveland team.
|
|
Have to disagree. His old Clev team never went on a run like the Heat did this year in winning 27 consecutive games. This Miami team is deeper, more cohesive and James has improved as well. James carried those Cav teams.
yeah but werent the cavs team either the 1 or 2 seed every year lets not forget the east was WAY better when he was in cleveland also. Those celtics and magic teams were better than these knicks, pacers, and bulls teams.
and light.Originally Posted by vyomguy
You're telling me Mo Williams is better than Chalmers/Cole? Let's say wash, even though Mo Williams couldn't guard me.
He had the likes of Daniel Gibson/Larry Hughes and other no names at SG, couldn't defend, Wade >
LeBron is a tad better player now than he was in CLE
Haslem/Bosh > Antwan Jamison (also couldn't defend)
Anderson > Ilgauskas (couldn't be on floor bc couldn't defend)
Miami, no matter how bad they shoot/play will still defend. Top notch defensive team, CLE played team defense but not as good individual defenders
This isn't even counting Allen/Battier...
You people are assin9 assin10 assin11. Cleveland..really, some of you show your true lack of ball knowledge, its embarassing
I seriously hope this is a joke. I understand the point you are trying to make, but it's an exaggeration and simply not true. Also, you provided no real information whatsoever, just opinion without any information to back it up.
First of all, Lebron has improved dramatically from his Cleveland days. He's not pretending to be a shooting guard anymore. He has improved in every facet of offense. The guy is a freak, and he was the sole reason that they won last night. Second, Wade can barely jog right now. He is playing with significant injuries and is a shadow of his former self. I get it. You have a very short memory if you don't understand Wade's brilliance, but I get it, this year he is really struggling with his legs.
Having said that.....you are out of your freaking mind to claim Cleveland's supporting cast was better. I can't stress this enough, you are out of your freaking mind. Miami won the NBA Finals last year. The supporting cast was brilliant. Wade averaged 23 ppg, Bosh averaged 14-8. Battier went 19-27 from 3-point range in the finals. Chalmers went for 25 in the critical game 4 win. And everyone remembers the insane 7-8 performance from Mike Miller when he completely blew game 5 open in the 3rd quarter.
Now this year they have the same cast, plus Hall of Famer Ray Allen and Chris Anderson. Anderson is nothing more than an enforcer, but he is damn good at what he does. Last night was Lebron's night, it was reminiscent of game 6 in Boston last year. The rest of the team deferred to him and he was amazing. But don't forget this team went on a 27 game win streak earlier this year playing well balanced basketball, spreading the floor and sharing the ball. They are struggling to do that against Indiana's matchups, but that's what they are best at. Wade and Bosh are Olympic gold medalists. Battier is one of the best role players of all time. Ray Allen is perhaps the best pure shooter of all time. Haslem and Anderson are excellent enforcers, and they are something like 30 of 35 in the last week of basketball. Chalmers and Cole are average point guards, but they are both capable of scoring.
Now you are honestly trying to tell me that Zydrunas Ilgauskas, Anderson Varejao (before he was any good), Delonte West, Eric Snow, Daniel Gibson, Sasha Pavlovic, JJ HIckson, Larry Hughes, Damon Jones, Antawn Jamison, Joe Smith, Wally Szerbiak and Drew Gooden ever provided the same level of value as the guys I mentioned in my last two paragraphs? Please go back to your "stats" and explain to me how this is possible.
In the meantime, please don't create a thread and waste our time with bs posts like that. And if you are going to say "check the stats" please provide real stats instead of completely generic crap that adds zero value. What a joke.
Pat Riley > than dope that was in Cleveland
this is the dumbest thread
miami minus lebron would beat cleveland minus lebron by at least 20 points every time
A lot of people missing the point in this thread. Sure Miami's supporting cast is better than Cleveland's was on paper. LeBron's teammates in Miami are all frontrunners. Playoff basketball is different than regular season. Everyone has disappeared other than LeBron in their first real tough challenge this season (this series against Indiana).
The fact of the matter is when the going gets tough, they all look like deer in the headlights and all jump on LeBron's back and wait for him to do his thing, or they lose. Just like in Cleveland. This includes Dwyane Wade. Plain and simple. Cavs version 2.0.
At least Varejao could get a fukking rebound and anticipate where a loose ball is going to end up. He provided more assistance to LeBron than Bosh does, that is a FACT.
nothing u just said proves ur insane point
if this team miami and that cleveland were to play each other without lebron, miami would win every time by double digits
have bosh and wade had subpar playoffs so far?
yes, but that surely does not lead to whatever ur trying to throw out there about his old squad in cleveland
Who cares what would happen if they play each other if neither squad could do anything in REALITY without LeBron? Neither would get past the 2nd round of the playoffs. I don't care about some fantasy matchup. It doesn't mean anything.
And 'subpar' is a VERY generous description of Wade and Bosh's playoff performance this year. Their stats are horrendous and the eye test is even worse.
You think Bosh is an Olympic gold medalist, multi-time all star, and starter for an NBA Champion because of his rebounding? Bosh and Verejao rebounding is the appropriate comparison? You sure about that? Think about that, and in the meantime.......
Varejao postseason rebounding:
05-06: 4.5
06-07: 6.0
07-08: 5.2
08-09: 6.4
09-10: 6.5
Average 5.7
Bosh postseason rebounding:
06-07: 9.0
07-08: 9.0
10-11: 8.5
11-12: 7.8
12-13: 6.6
Average: 8.0
That's werid huh? Bosh's worst season is higher than Varejao's best. Even if you take away the Toronto years and focus only on Miami, Bosh stills pulls in more rebounds. Now I admit Bosh gets more minutes but if Varejao wasn't good enough to play 35 minutes a night on that Cavs team, then why are we even talking about it? Bottom line, 2010 - 2013 Varejao is very different than 2006 - 2009 Varejao, and apparently your statements was not a FACT. Nice try though.
Honestly I can't tell if people are joking around or stupid? Or perhaps this is just a standard case that bad sports fans have amazingly short memories. Like when Indiana won game 4 and an ESPN poll showed 60% of American thought they would win the series. People are so fickle. Now Lebron goes off for an insane game, and people forget that the Miami offense has been extremely well balanced for this entire season, including this series.
Game 5: 90 - 79 Win
Lebron and Haslem pick and roll won the 2nd half/game.
Game 1: 103-102 Win
James 30
Wade 19
Bosh 17
Chalmers 10
Andersen 16
Game 3: 114 -96 Win
James 22
Wade 18
Haslem 17
Bosh 15
Chalmers 14
Last night Lebron went nuts. When an opposing defense is staying home instead of double teaming and your 2nd best player is playing on two bad knees, the superstar needs to step up and score. This is how playoff basketball works. What the hell did you expect was going to happen last night? Spolestra was going to put the ball in Mario Chalmer's hands and tell him to go win it? He is going to tell Dwayne Wade on two bad knees to get to the hole and get fouled? You want to see Chris Andersen and Udonis Haslem beating people off the dribble while Lebron stands in the corner? Guys, the superstar went off last night. That's what happens. It doesn't mean you can now say the Miami supporting cast is worse than the atrocities Cleveland used to put on the court.
This supporting cast has nothing to do with "on paper" versus reality. In this particular series Indiana is taking away the 3 point shot, and Battier/Allen are not contributing. That doesn't mean Battier and Allen are on the same level as Sasha Pavlovic and Daniel Gibson. Look back at the 2012 Finals. Look at what Battier did. Look at what the supporting cast did during the 27 game winning streak. These events are not ancient history. Their role players are all extremely capable. The Cavs role players were not.
I can't believe I even let myself get caught up in this thread. If you are trying to make an argument that the Cavs supporting cast is superior than the Miami supporting cast, you seriously need to stop talking, because you are making the world a dumber place.
U said something insane about Cleveland having a better supporting cast. Now prove it. U haven't said 1 thing credible that supports ur theory at all.
Miami has gone to back to back finals and got a title. since u don't like fantasy and hypotheticals, bring some facts.
If each team played each other with lebron or without, Cleveland loses every time, just so u know.
Last edited by jsmithj88; 05-31-13 at 02:37 PM.
People are too caught up in worshiping the Heat to realize the gap is not as big as you think. People get too familiar with recognizable names and don't watch the games where they are completely incapable of contributing.
So Battier and Allen get a pass because they aren't playing the Bobcats or the Hornets? What are you trying to say? They aren't useful against good teams? That's exactly my point.
Bosh averages nearly 60% more minutes than Varejao in the postseason (35 to 22) and has found a way to muster 2 more rebounds per game. LOL. Cool argument dude. Have you actually watched Chris Bosh go for a rebound or a loose ball? His reaction time is so slow and his intensity is so low it's ridiculous. It's pathetic. He has no post presence when he doesn't have a clear height advantage. Defense is bad. Varejao provided toughness on the defensive end. This is just an example.
To make it clear, I'm not saying he was better off in Cleveland. I'm saying this is turning into Cleveland 2.0. Maybe it's the effect of playing with a superstar; you get comfortable and rely on him much more. I understand that superstars take over the game in playoff basketball, but if it weren't for LeBron, his so called great supporting cast wouldn't be anything special.
Heat are nothing special outside of Lebron, but the Cavs were basically garbage except for a few role players
I get your point, but no......
I find this notion absolutely ridiculous.
Dwayne Wade will never be as bad as Anthony Parker, or Delonte West, ever. Wade could play till he's 40, and still produce better than Parker in his prime.
I recognize the Heat as average outside of Lebron, but it's more about Cleveland at the time being god-awful as a whole outside of Lebron
Speak on it...some of these fellas today really do not understand basketball and what it means to have a TEAM behind you. Lebron was playing with SCRUBS...not one of these nitwits can name 2004-2009 starting five....Lebron was playing by himself...not one of his teamates was an all-star..not one of them could be considered a second option....now last night, he was by himself as his team was not performing up to expectation...and thus the Cavaliers analogy...but now the idiots at Espn and some of the nitwits on this board are taking an yard when given an inch and coming to all kinds of absurd conclusions.
Miami was built to win immediately, which they did. If they advance, they will be only the 5th team in the last 35 plus years to make it to 3 straight finals...that requires a team effort...a 27 win streak (2nd most all time)...requires a team effort...so nobody should be minimizing the impact of the role players who sit behind Lebron.....now they are injured...and it shows.......I firmly believe it is likely due to the fact that they were trying to hard to beat the record....the team has had it mentally...and Wade's knees are finished.. at least for the reason...I hated that streak..because I knew it would come back to haunt them...and here we are...as far as I am concerned...Indiana should have beaten them 4-1...and yet...they are down...which again is a testament not only to Lebron...but to the Miami team as a whole as their defense is the reason they are where they are....people seem to forget that because they dun have a freaking clue about what real basketball is about....
Too caught up in the mystique of the Heat being the 96 bulls and Lebron being Jordan...and thus think if they dun play up to par 100 percent every night, they are automatically reduced being the equivalent of the 2004 Cavaliers....LMAO....you folks need to stop falling in love with hot teams...with star players.....because they will never live up to expectation.......WADE is injured (32)....BOSH is injured and he is a FREAKING POWER FORWARD playing against TWO BEASTLY BIG MEN when his JOB is hit 3's from the perimeter....Allen is 37..battier is 34......There ain't a player on the Pacer squad over 30....they should be dominating offensively....and YET they are still loosing. I wonder why that is?
Last edited by Menses; 05-31-13 at 08:44 PM.
do i think his supporting cast in miami is mostly overrated players? yes
are they still better then what he had in cleveland? yes
is he better then he was in cleveland? for sure
Can't believe there's actually an argument about this?
Exactly... If Lebron would have stayed in Cleveland, he would have hoisted 1 maybe 2 trophies. The East is straight up garbage now as well as the entire league.
Cleveland most arguably was a better team. Forget the names on the jerseys because guys like Wade are more injured than healthy. Plus Cleveland was a revolving door of free agents all in an effort to please LBJ. Look at the last 3 seasons of the Heat and Cavs with Lebron.
Heat 2012 (66-16) - Cavs 2009 (61-21)
Heat 2011 (46-20) - Cavs 2008 (66-16)
Heat 2010 (58-24) - Cavs 2007 (45-37)
2012 Heat had a 27 game win streak, 2nd best in NBA history. In 2008 Cleveland had a 39-2 home record, 2nd best in NBA history. Also in 2008 they set a record for most double digit victories.
Both teams were very good defensively. I could argue that Cleveland were much better defensively and also much more well rounded from top to bottom, especially at PF and Center. Miami is much better at overall star power with Wade, Bosh and Allen and clutchness. But we are also seeing kinks in the armor as these guys age.
I said it 5 years ago that the only thing holding Lebron back was Lebron. He never looked at himself in Cleveland. He blamed everyone else for their failures instead of taking the load. He wouldn't work on his game and didn't care less about attracting other star players to his team. He learned from his mistakes and when he went to Miami he met Ray Allen at the airport to recruit him. Worked on his low post game, stopped killing clock then chunking up low percentage 3's and became a better student of the game. The Lebron we see right now would have won titles in Cleveland. Very few greats come along that can transcend the era and overcome team deficiencies. We are seeing that in Lebron. The folks around him look like slugs because he is that much better.
Would Miami of today beat Cleveland of yesterday without Lebron? I think Cleveland would do what the Pacers are doing much better. Pound them in the half court and dominate the boards. Miami is a little less than what Lebron had in Cleveland if you really are honest. Wade has been injured the last 3 years. He is like every other SG that got old and never perfected a jumpshot. Anybody that thinks Wade is going to get better magically is fooling themselves. He hasn't improved the most important aspect of basketball... Shooting. I said it the other night. He is what we call in the playground... "SELF CHECKED". You don't even have to guard him anymore. Bosh is still elite you just don't see it in this series but he was owned by Verajao for years now with AV's hustle and rebounding. Ray Ray has faded, Mike Miller is a no show. Right now, Chalmers and Birdman are the 2 best players on the Heat not named Lebron. That's pretty pathetic.
^^^ Finally someone who is capable of critical thinking
Cavs finished 19-63 the first year without Lebron......You think the Heat without Lebron are that bad???
Players get soft when they think someone else is responsible, they just need a good coach, and if you saw last game Lebron was doing all the coaching/motivating at the end to get the win. People need to accept the fact that some players on the team are too old and the coach is not good enough.
You must have just started front running with the Heat???...
With DWade, after getting swept by Chicago (0-4) in the first round of the 2006-2007 playoffs they followed that up in 2007-2008 with the worst record in the league. 15-67 (0.183)
That Heat team w/o Lebron would most definitely beat this Heat team. Look at the roster. It's basically the same with a more healthy, younger Wade.
You must also listen to a lot of radio and Colin Cowherd who is notorious for sucking off Lebron. He loved to point out that the Cavs went from first to worst without Lebron but what he won't mention is that that Cavs team was a shell of itself, battling injuries and major roster changes after Lebron fukked them. Once he left the Cavs cut bait, reduced salary by trading assets. This meant, new coach, new players, no one healthy, playing with D League guys most nights and they still didn't have the worst record in the league.
The Cav's are making all the right moves after Lebron and are in a good position to be one of the top teams in the East in a couple of years. Miami is going to have some tough decisions regarding Bosh and Wade with the new salary cap. I think you see them find a way to deal Wade or make him sign for the league minimum which is going to be tough for his ego. I actually think Lebron is going to bail for NY, Chicago or LA. He's too much of a front runner.
Last edited by Mac4Lyfe; 06-01-13 at 06:00 PM.
Bosh and Wade 1-11 combined in the first half tonight... Big 3
LeBron doesn't need 2 extra stars to beat this Indiana team
This is the similarity to the Cavs I was trying to point out. This has changed from last season... All year Miami played team basketball but when the going gets tough, they'll lose in the playoffs (when it matters) if it weren't for LeBron; they need him to do it all, so what is the difference between this team and the Cavs?? Besides LeBron being a better player himself now...
Last year was a different story, Wade was still relevant. If it's not just his knee, he's on an extremely steep decline..
how many f'cking layups can Miami miss? LeBron has no help...Miami sucks.
Reply With Quote
cwnotorious gave The Kraken 1 SBR Point(s) for this post.
