[HedgeHog]

5-Dimes used to pay full odds for top 5 or top 10 ties in golf, but they recently went to dead heat rules. I figure that would divide your profits in cases of a tie, but never did Ithink I could lose on it.

Case in point, I played Immelman+225 for Top Ten @ $100 this weekend. He finished in a 5-way tie for 10th. I figure to get one fifth of the $225 back plus my original $100 back. But instead of $145 coming back I get only $65...a $35 loss,

Tony of 5D explains that the $100 stake and $225 win is combined and divided by the # tied. So 325/5 = $65 and that's all I get for my original $100.

So even though I won, I'm out $35. Hell, if horses finish in a DH, the bettors are assured of getting at least their stake back plus a small profit. This is a ripoff at 5D.

[I.R.B]

That sounds fukked... They should atleast gave you back you're org $100... how can you make the right call on a bet an still lose money?

[Art Vandeleigh]

That's the way it's also done at an exchange like Betfair

[HedgeHog]

Curious as to what some of the Mods think. Is this standard procedure on Dead heats. Seems unfair.

[tomcowley]

It seems right. THe other way to look at it is that 20% of your stake wins, 80% of your stake loses. You'd get back $65 that way too. Take the absurd case where everybody had the same odds and tied- if winnings/#tied were paid out in addition to the full stake, the book would be giving away money to everybody who bet. That can't be the right algorithm.

[dwaechte]

Yeah although it sucks for you in this case, the way it was graded seems logical enough to me.

[katstale]

HH, i was more interested in did Tony explain the rule without dropping an Fbomb on you?

[HedgeHog]

HH, i was more interested in did Tony explain the rule without dropping an Fbomb on you?

No F Bomb, Kat. His first email was quite nice, but my mild objection to him was met with a stern 2nd email, basically telling me to avoid dead heat possibilities.

[katstale]

See, I knew god would explain it for you so you would understand!!! lolol

[RickySteve]

There actually is a highly-rated book that makes the mistake of returning the stake and dividing winnings by number tied for dead heats.

[Nicmack]

You are correct. The Sportsbook actually turns a loss into a win with this ridiculous "dead heat ruke". If only one player finished 10th that player would pay full odds to the bettor. The house would lose. However the way they pay it turns inot a win for the house! I noticed a couple replies athat agreed this was correct. Cas in point: 5 players tie for 10th. All have same odds of 4-1 on a $100 bet. Divide stake by the 5 tied, now it is $20 at 4-1 paying $20 plus $80 or $100. The house breaks even on a losing play!! The fairest way and logical way to pay this wager is actually shown on 5Dimes fraded wagers page. This is a copy of the 3 top ten bets I made this week. I highlighted in red the amount that should have been paid as stated by 5Dimes on the graded wager sheet. Below that is the daily figure sheet where they recalculated the results with the dead heat rule and paid back only a portion of the proper amount. It is their house and their rules. I won't play a top 10 again until they pay them fairly. 5 Dimes is a good book otherwise. I have been playing there for 12 years. I asked then to justify the dead heat rule, they declined as there is no logical explanation for dividing the stake and keeping the losing share.

165634560-1	2/27/13 9:02am	$10.00	$32.50	$42.50	Win	2/28/13 12:00am Golf EURO +325 Tshwane Open - Top 10 - Darren Fichardt*
165634560-2	2/27/13 9:02am	$10.00	$36.00	$16.00	Win	2/28/13 12:00am Golf EURO +360 Tshwane Open - Top 10 - David Howell*

[tto827]

How they do it is fair. If your player finishes in a 5 way tie for 10th, that means he really finished 10th, 11th, 12th, 13th, and 14th. Your bet is now broken down into 5 distinct bets, of which 1 you win. If you have a five way tie for 7th, you'd get paid on 4 out of the 5 bets.

As people have said, if they return full stake, its quite possible for them to lose even if they have balanced action.

[BennyBigNuts]

The reason is it a scam is because he DID NOT finish out of the top 10. You bet he would finish in the top 10 and he DID. They cannot claim he came in 11th. This is a dirtbag sportsbook scamming people with lame fine-print somewhere and weaseling people out of money. Do you know how much they scam out of people with this in the long-run?
This issue should be blasted all over this forum right now to give people the heads-up on the scam they are running at that toilet site. You know how many people end up tied in golf tournaments?
Spread the word here boys. That's pathetic. There is 100% no way you should end up losing money on that bet. I'd forward it to higher-ups.
If he ties for 8th with 4 people, they apparently scam that wager as well? Lol, man they are either clueless or scum running that site.

[BennyBigNuts]

How they do it is fair. If your player finishes in a 5 way tie for 10th, that means he really finished 10th, 11th, 12th, 13th, and 14th. Your bet is now broken down into 5 distinct bets, of which 1 you win. If you have a five way tie for 7th, you'd get paid on 4 out of the 5 bets.

As people have said, if they return full stake, its quite possible for them to lose even if they have balanced action.

Odds should be made/adjusted to factor out all that garbage already. You are already getting horrible odds on that prop bet to begin with. No way you should come out without your original bet back on it.

[tto827]

Odds should be made/adjusted to factor out all that garbage already. You are already getting horrible odds on that prop bet to begin with. No way you should come out without your original bet back on it.

So don't bet it. That's the way they grade it, they state it all over the place, and it is correct. Everyone wants books to just give away free money, well guess what, when that happens, BI happens, so stop bitching about a book that pays, and offers more than any other site to American players.

[BennyBigNuts]

Like I said stain, the guy did not come in 11th. No reason he should come out with a loss on his wager. Rules can be addressed/changed when they are a bit off.

[tto827]

A losing wager does not get paid. He was paid appropriately for how the tournament ended. It's like taking pk/-.5, if they draw, part of your wager is returned, while the other is a loss. Just like this, 4/5 of his wager was a loss. At +225, winning 4 out 5 does not equal a profit when gambling, so why should it here?

[mrpooh]

The problem is it isn't a dead heat. The bet is if he will finish in the top 10. In this case he did, and if you look at his pga record, this is counted as a top 10. not as a top 10, 11, 12, etc finish. did 15 people finish in the top 10 that week? yes, but they all did. the bet isn't will he finish in the top 10, with no ties, just top 10. SBR should have taken up the player's cause, but as always they don't care

[tto827]

The problem is it isn't a dead heat. The bet is if he will finish in the top 10. In this case he did, and if you look at his pga record, this is counted as a top 10. not as a top 10, 11, 12, etc finish. did 15 people finish in the top 10 that week? yes, but they all did. the bet isn't will he finish in the top 10, with no ties, just top 10. SBR should have taken up the player's cause, but as always they don't care

But 5dimes clearly states that dead heat rules apply to this wager, regardless of if it should or not.

[teaz2win]

The problem is it isn't a dead heat. The bet is if he will finish in the top 10. In this case he did, and if you look at his pga record, this is counted as a top 10. not as a top 10, 11, 12, etc finish. did 15 people finish in the top 10 that week? yes, but they all did. the bet isn't will he finish in the top 10, with no ties, just top 10. SBR should have taken up the player's cause, but as always they don't care

What will end up happening is that if enough stink is made .. that all props that have ties or not an outright finish will be graded as a loss, and the OP would have gotten nothing. He would have just lost. Thats the issue here pushing little things like this end up hurting everyone in the long run.

[mrpooh]

pushing what, the fact they graded it wrong? look at his player profile page, it is counted as a top 10 finish. so he wont

[pokernut9999]

Thread is almost 5 years old and posters still arguing.

[Kaabee]

it's clearly stated in the rules and a detailed example is given.

[davidchong]

avoid this kind of bets